Maybe I missed it somewhere but in this thread but, what tranny are you guys using on the 5.4s? Will the T56 - speed bold to it? Seems one would need a good tranny to handle the extra torque loads.

 

any tranny that will fit one modular engine will fit all the rest. The bellhousings are all the same bolt pattern.

you can support quite a lot with a t45 or 3650. I'll be putting in a tko600 soon enough but it's not necessary as long as you don't try to break the stocker. we're right at the limit (well... just a tad over) for the tq ratings for any stock tranny.

and wtih 8.5:1 compression you could easily pump the boost to ~20psi with a good tune and 93 octane... I'd still use a bottle of torco in the tank with it though. 20 is a lot of boost. power would be above 600rwhp on a properly setup motor with a good cam.

 

If your looking to make around 500 rwhp on a 5.4 3V with heads/cams you definatly do not need 20+ PSI.... more like 8ish.

In reguard to the trans, I'll be running a Cobra or Viper spec T56.

I'll make the list of parts you need here in a bit, once I get caught up on my morning errands.

 

What I meant was 500rwhp on the street low boost with the ability to dial it up to 20psi but if 8 will do 500 then id say high boost would only really be 15 or so and still be really stable.

Thanks I'm a lists kind of guy. Have to know everything I need before I start a project. Now I have a 5.4l Bare block already, nothing changes as far as the block on the 5.4 correct? All the cast iron blocks are the same for the 2v, 3v, and 4v correct?

 

i'm running a stock 80k t45 with a spec stage 2 clutch. since i'm still N/A it should prove to handle plenty of power till i can get boost.

 

Meh, I'm on my 4th 3650 in 70,000 miles - on stock heads/cams and n/a

 

For 400 n/a I'd say about 8-10 PSI would give approx 500rwhp, again this depends on how well the heads/intake flow. A great flowing setup will make 500rwhp on lower boost

All cast iron blocks are the same from 2v, 3v, 4v - however the 2001-current blocks (called NVH) are stronger - although the pre 01 block has been found to have limits somewhere in the 4 digit range.

Ok the list.... and please.. DO NOT get out your calculator. Items in orange are optional but reccomended

5.4 Bare Block
5.4 Crank
Pistons
Piston Rings
Rods
Wrist Pins
Main Bearings
Rod Bearings
Head Studs
Main Studs
Windage Tray
High Capacity Oil Pan
Oil Pan Gasket
FRPP High Volume Oil Pump
Upgraded Oil Pump Gears

Bare Heads
Cams
Adjustable Cam Gears
Valves
Valve Springs
Valve/Cam covers

Intake
Adapter/CMRV all in one plates
96-04 Oval Throttle Body (Bullitt, Cobra, etc)
Throttle Body adapter plate

96-04 injectors
fuel rail upgrade
fuel line upgrade
fuel pump

3v coil on plug boots
3v spark plugs (these are a new design)

Headers (3v shortys or stock manifolds)
modified midpipe (stock or aftermarket)

upgraded transmission
upgraded rear end
upgraded suspension

Thats a start anyhow. Dont forget the macine work on the block, and assembly, and other misc gaskets (head gaskets, intake gaskets, etc)

 

hmmm... let's see what it's cost me (keep in mind I took years to get all the parts). All prices are rounded up to a nice even number

5.4 block/crank 500
pistons/pins/locks/rings 600
h-beam rods 250
main and bearings 250
head and main studs 350
fuel rails 100
injectors 200
heads 400
cams 400
gaskets 250
oil pan 250
intake (classified) retail is ~700
adapter plates 375
assembly 1400
braided line and fittings 1000+
fuel pump 125
n2o kit 400
wideband o2 300
sct pro-racer kit 600
flywheel 85
DF kevlar clutch freebie (normally 600)

That's a pretty good deal considering what I'll get for it. That doesn't include

 

i'm confused as to why everyone thinks it's so expensive to swap to 4v? if you buy a complete cobra motor with all sensors etc already in it you can just modify the GT harness and reflash the pcm...it's really actually pretty easy

and for people that already have a mach1 or 99/01 cobra te 5.4 4v is plug and play for them

 

For the people who have a car that starts life as a 4v car, yes the 5.4 4v is a direct swap.

For any other cars - as to why its so expencive... you said it yourself.

Byy the time you buy a complete cobra motor with all the sensors and etc and modify the GT harness and pay to reflash the PCM - your at least $2,000 - $4,000 MORE then what we will have put into our 5.4 2V and 5.4 3V's

Even if you assume motor to motor the cost was EXACT to the penny - you would d still have the harness, sensors, pcm reflash, etc.

However lets look at this honestly.

What heads are you going to get BARE for under $1,000 for a 4v ? "B" heads IF YOUR LUCKY. Meanwhile I can get 2v PI heads for under $300 and 3v heads for under $500.

Then lets talk Cams - 2v or 3v I can get custom grinds for under $700, 4v off the shelf cams are over $1,200.

Then theres the valves for when you port the heads... more valves, more money.

Then we have the whole intake thing. PI Intake, $150 - 3V Intake - $75, 99/01 Cobra/03/04 Mach Intake - $300+

I can keep going - but the fact of the matter is 2v build or 3v build are within $500-$1000 of each other. 4v build on a non 4v car... easy $4,000 extra.

 

that's not exactly true, you can get fully assembled B heads for less than 200, fully assembled 99/01 C heads for 400-600, you can buy an entire cobra drivetrain for less than 3000 you just have to shop around(now you can get a pair of FR500 heads and valve train for 2700 or GT/R heads for 3000 assembled but thats a whole different story)

i bought 99 cobra drivetrain less heads for 1550 and a set of 01 heads assembled for 500

 

So would I be able to just get a custom dyno tune on my current Diablo Predator or would I need to switch to a 3v Predator tune?

 

Hey guys... I didn't dig through all of the threads so sorry if this has been asked already....

I've been interested in doing a 5.4L swap for a while now and I'm glad to see people are actually doing it... and now I'm starting research for my own and will hopefully have the block by the end of summer.

Anyways, my question is this:

Supercharged applications aside here, do the 5.4s come in NPI and PI formats too??

If so, what kind of compression would a NPI bottom with PI heads have? And what of HP boost do you think it would make??

 

Yes, they came in both forms and since the 5.4 had a similar compression ratio to the 4.6, you'll get a similar increase w/ the swap.

 

So the extra cubes wouldn't make a difference??

Look here guys...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...QQcmdZViewItem

Don't know if anybody could use it but thought I'd post it for y'all.

 

The extra cubes doen't make a difference since at TDC, the pistons in the 5.4 sit further down from the deck than the pistons on the 4.6.

 

no matter what it'll be a custom tune. think of the predator as a chip that can be programmed with whatever floats your boat. The key difference is the handhelds like predators and xcal2's allow some adjustment of tables. You should be able to use your existing PCM if the VCT and CMCV's are deleted and you use a cable attached throttle and not the fly by wire that comes on the 3v motors. 3v2000GT can answer more questions about that aspect.

4v was just too much bother for me. I have the technical skill to pull off any mix-n-match kind of swap but being able to directly plug in to the 2v made up for the hit I'd take in HP numbers. I figure the extra 800 bones for ported heads and bigger cams helped enough. You also have to keep in mind that many of us are looking for streetable torque. HP is a function of how much fuel you turn into air, torque is actual force available. While we may not be able to shred every car out there we'll have oodles of street usable power from nice NA cheap easy to install motors that'll bark the tires in every gear and give us all that off the line power without having to support all the fuel costs.

Later on down the road I'll consider moving to 4v heads but in the mean time there's plenty of power with the extra cubes and cheap heads.

00' was the last year for NPI heads in trucks. 01 they all had PI. Some 2000's had PI but I've run across more NPI's there than PI. 01-03 are probably the best blocks. Whatever heads you get make sure they're ported. It's worth 30-40hp right off the bat with even stock cams. Lumpy cams and ported heads are worth even more.

Don't bother with a lightning blower... it's not worth the hole in the hood for all but a rare few dudes.

The extra cubes are limited by the stock heads, cams and intake. Port the heads and put on a set of pretty aggressive cams and the power shoots up. Big plenum, short runner intakes are helpful too but they're not a giant concern. Bullit, PI, HPS, Reichard, BBK, trick flow all make decent intakes.

 

I was thinking, forged npi bottom end, ported pi heads with a moderate cam...and I really want to see that BBK intake that is suppose to be released here in the middle of the year....

Yeah, I prefer N/A... i'm not looking to land on the moon so I figure I don't need the HP boost from a blower... that was just for anybody who might be looking for something like that...

I'd be happy with a 300+hp torque monster...

 

Yes but as you said, those are special cases and you need to shop around. I'm talking every day, all over ebay and junkyard pricing. If you were to shop around for 2v and 3v parts you could find some deals better then what I posted for those also. Your not exactly comparing apples to apples there.

To add to that, I'm of the opinion that a 2v or 3v with equal mods is better then a 4v.

Actually, not true.

Although the pistons do sit further down in the hole - the piston moves 3.543 inches in a 4.6 and 4.165 inches in the 5.4 So the piston is still moving more air, the extra deck height just makes the compression lower.


Edit:

I forgot to mention when I got home I had a nice box on my door step from MMR waiting for me.

Pistons w/ pins and locks, Rods, and file fit rings all showed up. Taking the block out to the machine shop here in the next few days.

 

That's what I said, since the effect on compression from extra cubes are offset by the fact that the pistons sit lower at TDC.

 

Ahhhhhhhhhh

I misudnderstood you. I thought you meant that it wouldnt make any different in power. Sorry about that.

 

No problem dude, it happens to everyone.

 

would be too tall, a 5.4 2v with a lightning blower on top wont clear a 4" cowl

 

Another topic change.

Head and Main Studs...

What are everyones thoughts on these.

I've spoken to many shops that swear by them. They say absolutly do Head and Main studs.

I've also spoken to just as many shops who said the Main is strong enough with the stock bolts, and that the head studs are not worth the hassle to install (Im told they do not have the hex on the top for install like most studs do). They did say ARP head bolts were good.

So what are your thoughts ? Again we are only talking about 600-650 RWHP here, if I dont need them I dont want to bother with them honestly. My thinking is look at all the 03/04 cobras doing it without them... so are they needed ?

 

Studs are always going to be better bolts since they are stronger and help align parts when installing. However, bolts will do just fine, just use anything other than the factory TTY bolts so that you can reuse the hardware. ARP makes head bolts now for our engines now? This will make head removal/installs much easier...

 

Ok, guys. Now you guys have me thinking about a 3 valve swap. If it is just a little more exspinsive then i'm going to go for it. Couple questions, hope you like list

1) Are the 3v mustang heads and the 3v truck heads the same???
2) Whats so bad about the 3v cams? i heard they were slam up.
3) Could you swap the motor in and use a 3v computer and harness? or is that to much work?
4) would the 3v stock manifolds fit into our cars? and work the same as the 5.4 2v ones?
5) Could i just find a 3v Truck motor and then swap it into the car with the plates and intake and the t/b plate?
6) could a 98 4R70W handle the 5.4 3v? i've heard it can handle 500hp and tq.
7) How much harder would it be to do the 3v vs. the 2v?
8) What would you do for a super charger on the 3v cars? since the 3v kit is way way way to wide for the sn body?

Thanks for the answers

 

if you are doing anything other than naturally aspirated, i would definitely use head studs...main studs unless you are doing more than 600rwhp i wouldn't get main studs and even then it's just for assurance...now once you get in the over 8000rpm and over 800rwhp it's good insurance, now if you are doing over 1000rwhp and over 8000 rpm main studs are a necessity

 

I was not aware they did either but I will be looking into it this weekend

1) Modular Heads on the trucks are the same as the cars. 2v PI car head = 2v PI PI truck head. 3v car head = 3v truck head, 4v car = 4v truck head

2) The cams are a great starting point, but there is always room to go bigger and better

3) I dont know, but its not needed. The only gains would be VCT and The CMRV plates - neither of which you want. Stick with your stock 2v computer IMO

4) 3v stock truck intake manifold will fit, but you dont want it. I believe its a short runner (not sure) 3v car manifold needs adapter plates which need to be custom made. Although this makes me wonder if the 3v truck intake with a spacer would work to improve runner length.. r3d - your comments on this ?

5) sure why not. although youd want to revisit the intake issue as mentioned above, and the exhaust would need some work

6) no clue - I'm a manual guy.

7) It's a little bit harder due to needing the few custom made pieces. Once you have those its really about the same.

8) You have a few options here. 5.4 F150 Whipple, or if you want to go cent. I'm thinking the 2v bracketry will still work. The 2v brackets replace two of the idlers with their own, and the 3v timing cover still has these idlers in the same place... so it should work i think.

 

Let me ask this then... how the FAWK do you get them in.

The shop that said to use bolts vs studs was telling me that there is no hole in the top for an allen to torque them down (as done on other head studs) and that when double nutting them to install, when they took the nuts off the stud would come out.

?

 

the way i've done it is to double nut and then once you break the double free use some pliers with some cloth or rubber inbetween the teeth and the stud to keep from damaging the threads