i've thought about the svo heads and the svo intake..... that would be a good combo on these motors. ......."Thinking"......... yea it should be nice.

 

MMR just called.

New pistons and rings for the 333 just shipped out.

Sweetness

 

i was just talking to a friend and brought this topic up.

his thoughts, please excuse the the language

"I've been saying it for ****ing years. In 96 they should have went to a 5.4L SOHC in the mustang GT but Noooooooooo. I would have bought one over my LT1 SS."

did ford make a mistake?

 

with the intake hassles and the adapter plates on top of that, it's a lot to go through for what you could have from properly ported PI heads and the HPS intake. It would work but it's just more hassle than it's worth for a maybe of 3-5hp. Your cam choice will affect power a lot more than the head porting. Head porting is only being done by most of us to take that little extra advantage with the lumpy cams we're using. Myillwill and I both chose xe270ah-13's which is a killer cam for the application.

The hardball'r will come out in the 4.6 version with some enhancements to suit it better to the 5.4. Bob @ HPS and I have discussed this application at length and we've come up with a setup that should be cheap to produce, cheaper to retrofit and fit under the stock hood if we're lucky. It means 4.6 owners can get the Hardball'r now and still have upgrades available later to help with the 5.4L breathing. We did good work but it is a small compromise between the performance aspect and what can reasonably be marketed with any sort of profit for HPS.

Mistake is a harsh term. They have all sorts of legal regulation to deal with which meant that they had to ignore the (dying at the time) camaro and just make a car they could sell tons of with plenty of power for the average guy. The 5.4 doesn't allow you to remove the valve covers with the motor in the car and it's otherwise a pretty snug fit so they decided to not repeat the 428 cobra jet mistake and left it to the owner to up the displacement.

At least they were nice enough to make everything just bolt up. THe 5.4 isn't a performance motor by nature anyway. The long stroke doesn't do well at high rpm but it makes sick power down low where trucks need it. We've just decided to take all that tq and put it to a fun-er use.

 

very true

i just think ford could have raised the powerband with different cams and a better intake much like the one of the 4.6l and put it into the stang from the factory.

the fitment issues are a good point.

 

fords biggest mistake with the truck was using the same cams as the cars. less than 200 degrees of duration for 330 cubic inches... shameful.

 

I don't know, if the mustang is a performance car....it should get a larger motor. Come on, the camaroes have been spanking our rears since 94 and what does ford do in 96???? drop the CI???? I would call that a major mistake. It wouldn't have been that big of a deal to stick a 5.4 motor in there IMO.

 

You guys would be amazed and how many camaro guys openly admit that the only thing they like about the camaro is the LS1. its an awesome engine. but really, what else is there to like about a camaro?

i say that because i have some f-body friends who only own them because the mustangs were slower and have 4.6l engines. One of which went f-body to a c6 and is now driving a Saturn because he went back to school and didn't need all the extra bills and expenses that come with a corvette.

Is there any hope of a 3v intake solution? an '05 5.4l 3v GT would be

If there is an intake for the 3v by the times hes out and looking for a new toy it sounds like he's going to do it.

 

This is true. I owned several fbodies both third and fourth generation, although I did like the stlying of the fourth generation, the LS1 was the "bug light" that drew me in for the final deal.

That is what I am building. I plan to use a stock Mustang 3v intake, and make an all in one CMRV Delete/Adapter Plate to acommondate the width.

I believe the 5.4 is 1.5" wider, which would mean each side of the intake is .75" off from where it needs to be to line up properly. I will be documenting the creation of the plates once I get to that step, hopefully late summer.

The 5.4 3v was "it" for me. I hated putting all the funds into forging the shortblock for no power gains, and I figuired by the time I did a 5.4 2v with good heads/cams/intake I'd be looking at 330ish RWHP and torque to boot. With the 3v I expect to see 380-400 RWHP with the same mods and lower compression - and the intake is about $800 cheaper which offsets the price of the conversion which is relativly plug and play.

 

true, if i knew more about it and had some stuff i would go with the 3v

 

There really isnt anything different then going 2v vs going 3v other then the year of the parts you buy. It all bolts together the same way.

Function is still the same, the cam just has an extra lobe for that extra intake valve.

The head has an extra valve spring.

Once you remove the variable cam timing and the charge motion valves (which is almost as simple as watching the game drinking a cold one) - its pretty much the same.

Especially when you look at the cost vs power.

Intake: 3v - $200 (including CMCV delete kit) / 2v - $700
Used Heads: 3v - $400 / 2v PI - $300
Cams: generally a wash, 5.4 needs an adjustable cam gear for $400 to diable VCT
shortblock: identical on the 5.4 because of how the piston sits in the hole, dont need any flycuts or special goodies

Use the 2v fuel rails, 2v injectors, 3v coil on plug boots, the rest is all the same. No wiring changes needed to my knowledge.

I think the 2v and 3v 5.4 will be the hot swaps in the next few years once people realize how cost friendly and simple they are.

FWIW I also found out that ARP now makes headstuds with the allen key in them - I'll be grabin a set of those.

 

can anyone verify that?

 

I'ts been done a few times.

Both 2v to 3v and 2v to 5.4 3v

Thats why ford calls these modular engines, modular = interchangable.

 

would a lightning block be good for this swap. The C.Ratio is 8:4:1 im pretty sure, is that too low to run w/o a blower. How would the lower compression effect performance?

 

I was wanting to put a v8 in my mustang. right now i have a 94 v6 5speed. a buddy of mine told me to do a 5.4L swap. he said all I would have to do is get a 2valve PI 5.4L engine out of a 99 expedition, an intake from a 4.6 mustang, 8.8 rear end, computer from a 4.6 mustang, and a new transmission probably a 6speed t-56. would I need anything else?

 

Try to read the posts. I know 129 pages is a lot but after reading it, all your questions should be answered. For now, I'll tell you you need adaptor plates and a TKO is cheaper and stronger than a T56.

 

8.4 comp ratio is extremely low, not even worth having. If you get a lightning block, swap the pistons out so you can at least get the stock comp ratio of our Mustangs.
As for the 3V, is there anyother way to disable the variable cam timing like taking the unit out and welding it solid?

 

yeah, i'm currently on day 3 or 4. i forgot already. of reading the thread.

started sunday night. at page 88 i believe. crap, maybe not 88. i'll have to go find myself.

lol, but its worth every bit of it.

looking mostly for pics and vids. anyone have all there stuff on one host site i can look at like an album of pics or vids? or you guys like me and randomly upload stuff one at a time and lose it. haha

 

you can simply unplug the solinoid and it will disable it, but the timing isnt optimal.

Im going with adjustable gears to dial it in.

 

so if i desided to do the 3v then , i would need the 3v heads and stock mustang intake. Intake adapter plates, adjustable cam gears for the 3v, also some one said something a while back about a t/b adapter since the 3v is by wire.

Now another one......can you use the pre coil on plug ignition "coil and wires" or no?

Does the 2v timing cover match with the 3v heads? thats about all i can think about other than that other thing on the intake you where talking about 2eighty1? what is that thing?

 

welp there goes that idea, i was just considering that swap because everything was thier for a good price and it was forged for boost.

 

On the 3v swap, you can get 3v heads for a really good deal off of wreaks.
What all is needed? It seems really simple to do this, am i wrong. I know they make a couple of adapter plates including using a cobra throttle body.
Just would like to know what is needed to get it running correctly.

 

the coil and wires, i doubt. I talked to 3V2000GT and he said he had to use the 3v boots on his COP's


You do need an intake adapter plate, which you can buy from a shop, or I plan to make, or honestly see if its really needed. You'll need a Bullitt or Cobra/Mach throttle body.

You must use the timing cover for your heads. So if you use 3v heads, you gotta use a 3v timing cover. Remember they are different for 4.6 vs 5.4 as well.

Keep in mind on those adapter plates, that will be some fab work and the hardest part, since they are not avail to purch yet.

FWIW my compression ratio will be about 8.2:1 - which is what KB, Whipple, and Paxton prefer to see on their 3v's. With the extra cubes and torque from the 5.4 I dont expect there to be any issues n/a. I think you loose something like 15-20 Flywheel horsepower per full compression point.

 

We can be hopeful of some sort of adapter plate on the aftermarket over the next several months. It's not that hard and the CMCV delete plates are just the ticket for a pattern.

To the chap with the parts list, there's a bunch of little things you'll need. You'd probably do well to find yourself a wrecked donor car to get things like wiring harnesses, ECU, fuel system, rear end, some suspension parts, etc... If not, be prepared to spend a little time calling MPS for parts. Convertng a v6 will start at about 4-5K but it'll be fast.

Unless you're planning on a blower later, the lightning compression is a little low and the stock lightning rods are just stock rods and they aren't all that good. Replace them along with higher compression pistons and a new set of bearings for a full freshening. Then off to the races on figuring out which heads you want to use.

Your car will be down for probably a couple weeks while you do the conversion. It's not a 1 weekend job.

 

I don't believe you need intake adapter plates for the 3V conversion. I'm pretty sure 3V2000GT had adapter plates for his headers. You might want to double check, but I would assume using a 3V intake would match up perfectly to 3V heads.

 

3v Mustang intake on a 4.6 3v yes.

3v Mustang intake on a 5.4 3v no. Same problem as all the other 4.6 Intakes on a 5.4 - the 5.4 is to wide, and the 5.4 Intakes suck for performance and are too tall.

He used adapter plates for his headers, so that he could use 2v headers. You can use the FRPP 3v shorties just like you can the FRPP 2v shortys with a little work on the mid pipe - which you will have to do no matter what 5.4 you swap to.

 

i don't know, i think ill just stick with the 2v swap. The 3v is cool but i don't think i'm willing to do that much ya know. I believe the 5.4 2v will be enough for me.

 

Gotcha, for some reason I wasn't thinking about the 5.4l

 

having the extra power from the 3v would be sweet, but than how do you lie to people when they ask about the 3v valve covers and intake?

 

you cant on that one, but most likly they will be so amazed at the 3v swap they wont consider searching for the tell tale signs of a 5.4 swap.