stock springs will work to 6900 with moderate cam

 

Stock manifolds aren't tuned. If they were, all the primaries would be roughly the same size and much longer. Stock manifolds, no matter how good they are from the factory, are nothing more than cast iron logs. The only semi-decent ones were the ones on the old 5.0s. The new 4.6 3V pieces are no different.

 

So whats the word on anyone producing an intake for this swap??
i've heard hps is coming out with one as well as trickflow....are any of them out yet??

 

Trickflow has one for a 4.6... they're not going to play 5.4 in all probability. The 4.6 manifold barely sells well enough to justify it existing. HPS's intake is in production. THe first units have yet to ship to customers but I'm expecting the first one to be delivered to my house pretty soon.

 

i'm sorry, but 3v manifolds are pulse tuned and make every bit as much as shorties. look at a pair. they are nothing like logs.

 

if they are no good then how did ed olin rev to 6900 with them. he told me himself(i take his word for it).

 

They may be tuned but they aren't tuned for anything down low. This is why long tubes still make 10-15 hp over them. Remember, a properly tuned header has a proper collector, proper length primaries for the rpm range, and correct cross section or step. Stock manifolds have tiny primary lengths, making them useful for only high rpms since on the street, 30-35" length primaries are ideal. In addition, stock manifolds do not have anything close to a proper collector design since it's way too short and probably doesn't have a proper merge cone in it.

 

Had an "OH **** THE other day" Engine started leaking oil out the back. Had to pull the tranny (AUTO and HEAVY) come to find out 30 year engine builder wasnt too carefull in installing the rear main seal. After he replaced it we where comparing the old new one to the new new one and noticed the 1st one didnt have a chamfer to ease the install, Not sure what brand that was, but the newest one is a Felpro and seems way better made, and easier to install.

 

hey i read a question in muscle mustangs fast fords asking how much intercooled boost a stock internal 4.6 can handle. they said 14lbs. of boost and that sounds about right to me because my friends car has been makeing that amount of boost non intercooled.....hell its not even dyno tuned and its been like that for a while.

well i was gonna run 8 lbs of boost and a 55 shot but now im starting to wonder if the 5.4 can handle the same amount of boost. if so i was gonna do that and leave the nitrous off. i think it should since they both have the same horsepower from the factory. just the 5.4 is as we all know TORQUEY.

so my question is if is has a very good tune do u think a stock internal 5.4 will live for a lil while? also since it is a bigger motor would it take a different size pulley to make the 14 pounds on the 5.4 compared to a 4.6? also what size pulley do u think would get me closest to it.

also it would be for a procharger p-isc

 

Seeing as centrifugal superchargers make boost as a function of RPM, you would need a pulley to spin the s/c faster so it can make max boost at 5500 rpm instead of 6500 rpm. With a proper tune, there should be no reason why a 5.4 couldnt handle boost as well as the 4.6 does, even with stock internals.

 

3v manifolds look better than your typical cast manifolds externally but I haven't had any in my hot little hands to see what the insides look like. Anyone want to take some incredibly large pics for me to examine and I'll chime in.

 

these main studs will fit the 5.4 correct??
it says its for a 4.6 and only the dohc...just wondering if it would fit my 5.4 2v....if not can someone point me in the right direction...

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

 

another question for you guys...
i have romeo heads that i am going to put on my 5.4
all 5.4's come with windsor heads correct?
what will i have to do to put my romeos on the 5.4?

 

the arp head studs will fit 4.6 or 5.4

 

You need the 2v main stud kit.

The head stud kit will work with any of the modulars. To put the romeos on you'll need to swap a couple bolts from your old front cover to the new one for the swap. Don't trip. It's nothin big.

Main Stud Kit:
ARP-156-5401 2v modulars. I think that will support a windage tray with an add-on kit. Call summit.

 

yea i have the 2v head stud kit...but now i need the main stud kit...
i didn't know that there was a difference between 2v and 4v main studs??

 

That's because 4V had 6 bolt mains vs. 4 bolt mains.

 

even worse, the 5.4's are technically a 6-bolt main but the side bolts are re-usable and the outboard dowels aren't really a fastener so much as a locator so the 5.4's end up classed just like 2v 4.6's as 2-bolt main for the purposes of buying main cap fasteners. I have the ones I linked in my motor.

 

this is a bunch of pics, but i was illustrating to another 5.4 3v swapper months ago where to cut the 5.4 3v manifolds and 4.6 3v's and cast-iron stick weld them back together. i included all of the tedious procedures for stick welding cast iron. i made a perfect fitting part.

 

AHHH and DONE! i haven't read that much since high school.

fist thing is to thank r3d, assain, myill and the other OG's that have done the hard work for us and have made this swap their baby. you should feel proud knowing every 5.4 swap from now on is due to your work.

now for questions. im doing a 5.4 3v into a 99gt.
does my auto 99 winsor have an 8 bolt flexplate?
is MMR really making 3v adapter plates for the 4.6 3v intake or do i have to use the truck intake?

Bill, we spoke on the phone this week, and i think you said about to use a 4.6 3v exh manifold on the driver side and massaging the firewall to make the room for the exh. is this correct?
also do i HAVE to use a 4.6 3v oil pump, tank and pick up? or can i use the 4.6 2v or 5.4 3v stuff. like the 5.4 3v pump and 4.6 2v tank and pick up? i know you said something about the PSI on the 5.4 being high but i dont remember exactly.
whats the best (most hp and tq) cam to get for the 3v 5.4 and keep the stock springs? part #?

i should be up and running by the end of june. this is because of the support of this thread. THANK YOU!

 

Welcome and good luck with the swap. The 3V heads flow so much better than the 2V heads, so you are in for some good power to be made. I believe Comp has a couple decent grinds for the 3V heads, but I am not as familiar with them as I am with the 2V cams. I'd be willing to bet there are similar duration specs available and they should produce similar results. Just remember that the 5.4 has such a longer stroke, it really craves more duration to allow for the cylinder to fill with each intake stroke. And similarly, the advertised power bands for the 4.6 will be biased to roughly 1000 RPM lower on the 5.4. So a cam that makes peak power at 6.5k on the 4.6 will peak between 5-5.5k on the 5.4... r3d can probably answer about the availablility of adapter plates on the 3V stuff better than I can. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

UPDATE on 5.4 3v to 4.6 3v intake. MMR is still designing them. i called them today and they do not have a time or price yet. they have my name and #. hopefully i get a pair. so i know page 97 or so it was said they made them but not yet. i talked to RR yesterday and they dont have 3v adapters eithers. RR did say they have HEARD of guys using the 4v
adapters and i guess porting them out to fit the 3v.. is this a true option?


heres my build so far:
5.4 3v LB from a 05'
4.6 3v intake
stock 03-04 ford oval TB
4.6 3v exh manifolds
stock 99 auto trans
3.27 gears ( for now, will see if these do good or not)
stock 3v heads, upgrade to st2 or higher cams.
upgrade springs but only if NEEDED.
stock 99 pcm and harness.

questions..

how do i lengthen the throttle cable to reach the new location? im very picky about this part, cause its a safety issue.
will the stock 99 injectors work for now and if not what size do i need?
i want my peak HP around 6000 rpm's tops. i DD this car and don't see 5500 very offen now as it is. a lower reving engine is more streetable and fun to me. also 120+ is VERY rare for me. i am 100% against street racing and dont do it. so with that info what do you guru's think a good cam will be for me( think 3v)?

 

I'd look for a cam in the stage 2 range, don't bother stopping at stage 1, there's some tq you can trade for hp. Even a really ratty stage 3 type cam is streetable on the 5.4 (makes the car a little cold blooded though). Throttle cable would be a question for 3v2000gt. You'll want 24lb/hr injectors to start with. If you have yellow tops those are 19lb and are too small for a 3v application IMO but they'll work up to about 300rwhp.

 

use the 4.6 2v oil pump/pick-up/oil pan

 

throttle body location is exactly stock distance.

3v and 4v port shapes are alien and not possible to use.

if there is ever 4.6 3v to 5.4 3v intake adapters, it will revolutionize power in the 5.4 3v.


comp cams stage 1 or 2 will suffice for the stock springs. you will not rev it high enough to hurt them.

 

if you use stock injectors it REQUIRES more pressure.

 

ok awesome.

so how in the hell do you think these people got the 4v adaptors to work? RR seems to think it is pretty ez. they said the bolt pattern is the same on the head side just have to port the 4v's to fit the 3v intake track. and then theres the problem with the 4v adaptors bolting to the 3v intake.. and i would assume they removed the cmcv plates all together. wish we had a name of someone who did this. anyway MMR said they are makin them so we need to show a need i guess so they can hurry the hell up.

so i will stick with the truck intake...FOR NOW. ill go with 24lb injectors and use my 75mm tb and plenum and just amake my own adaptor for that.
will 24lb require more pressure? will i need an adj FPR or can i fix it with a tune. this motor WILL be dyno tuned.

bill you said i need ev6? to ev1 conectors for the injectors? can you explain this better.. i was going to use injectors that fit my 99 gt harness, possible?

im a jet engine mech and have friends that do machine work. im wondering if i can get them to fab me up a set of 3v adaptor plates. things that make you go humm....

 

here is a comp cam for 3v





is this a good choice for the 5.4? i want to use stock springs for now and will delete the vvt.

 

i would not use that cam.

way too big. think of 3v as 4v. moderate lift intake with radical lift rates, high lift exhaust with enough duration to make up for 1v shortfall. wide lobe seperation to build torque. aqnd avoid overlap losses. if you plan to forge and run it 6900 then by all means.

 

that is not a cam from CC. their 3v CC's only have .480 and .490 valve lifts. unless its new and i haven't seen it.