ECU question

CCM · 02-24-2007, 10:11 AM

Apparently I'm gonna need an ECU from a manual transmission car when I switch from the auto to the T45 (at least that's what the shop said). They wanna sell me a SCT 4 bank one with a tune for $300. Can't I just go on eBay and buy an ECU from a 5 speed GT, or will that not work?

r3dn3ck · 02-24-2007, 10:15 AM

you don't need a new ecu. the Auto ecu will need to be tuned but you don't need a new one from a manual car. If you do get one, then a GIZ2 ECU code is one of the better stock programs for your year out of the box.

The only thing that's different is the harness leading into it and the specific stuff for auto-trans controls. Since you are only eliminating parts, the worst you'd get it a CEL and that probably won't even occur. MM&FF guys said in more than one issue in their Q&A section that it's a non-issue... so you don't just have my word for it.

NetChemica · 02-24-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

you don't need a new ecu. the Auto ecu will need to be tuned but you don't need a new one from a manual car. If you do get one, then a GIZ2 ECU code is one of the better stock programs for your year out of the box.

The only thing that's different is the harness leading into it and the specific stuff for auto-trans controls. Since you are only eliminating parts, the worst you'd get it a CEL and that probably won't even occur. MM&FF guys said in more than one issue in their Q&A section that it's a non-issue... so you don't just have my word for it.

It actually depends on the PCM itself. I've seen it first hand where one PCM will work just fine, but when you change the tune in the same exact way on another PCM, it'll still have some quirks in it. Biggest problem I've seen is the hanging RPM, where while you shift, the RPM will stay around 3-5k.

r3dn3ck · 02-24-2007, 11:19 AM

All the ford ECU's for gas engines have the same basic structure. Some use data fields/tables/scalars/arrays/etc... that others don't which supports things like the 03 cobras and 03 gt's using the same basic computer hardware and only changing the tune file and wiring harness.

Can you take my XSH1 tune and slap it on a GIZ2 box... yes but it won't be perfect or possibly even any good at all. this is where having a tuner that knows his business is important.

The rpm issue is purely a tuning refinement issue. Someone should start by reducing the duty cycle value for the IAC. That should allow it to close earlier and more fully and knock the rpms down. You have to be careful with that though or you can cause stalling on closed throttle hard braking.

*03gtmustang* · 02-24-2007, 12:02 PM

Why are you getting rid of the auto, and what shop is working on the car?

Wheat · 02-24-2007, 12:21 PM

+1 for keeping the stock ECU and having it tuned. This is very easily done, flip the software switches, change # of holes for OSS sensor, load in IAC and dashpot settings from a same-year manual trans calibration, and tweak from there. And do yourself a favor, ditch the T45 and put in a 3650 or something else instead.

*03gtmustang* · 02-24-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheat

+1 for keeping the stock ECU and having it tuned. This is very easily done, flip the software switches, change # of holes for OSS sensor, load in IAC and dashpot settings from a same-year manual trans calibration, and tweak from there. And do yourself a favor, ditch the T45 and put in a 3650 or something else instead.

Do you work at a shop here in VA?

MattJ · 02-24-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

you don't need a new ecu. the Auto ecu will need to be tuned but you don't need a new one from a manual car. If you do get one, then a GIZ2 ECU code is one of the better stock programs for your year out of the box.

The only thing that's different is the harness leading into it and the specific stuff for auto-trans controls. Since you are only eliminating parts, the worst you'd get it a CEL and that probably won't even occur. MM&FF guys said in more than one issue in their Q&A section that it's a non-issue... so you don't just have my word for it.

Thats my code. GIZ2!

Wheat · 02-24-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtmustang

Do you work at a shop here in VA?

Yes. I wasn't going to mention it since I wasn't sure if that would be considered advertising.

*03gtmustang* · 02-24-2007, 04:06 PM

What shop?

CCM · 02-24-2007, 08:53 PM

Wheat, do you work at Excessive? That's where I'm taking it. They quoted me at $750 (10 hrs. @ $75 an hour I'm guessing) + $300 for a SCT 4-bank and new tune. So obviously I'm trying to skip out on the $300 if I don't have to have it.

Icefreezen · 02-24-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCM

Apparently I'm gonna need an ECU from a manual transmission car when I switch from the auto to the T45 (at least that's what the shop said). They wanna sell me a SCT 4 bank one with a tune for $300. Can't I just go on eBay and buy an ECU from a 5 speed GT, or will that not work?

I would just get the ECU that you have in their right now reflashed. But you could just go off Ebay and get another one i've seen ppl take that route.

May I ask why the T45 it really wasnt the strongest? If you can find a T3650 I think you'd be better off.

r3dn3ck · 02-25-2007, 09:14 AM

t45 is rated at like 50tq less than the 3650. it's not as strong and the manufacturer admits it. 3650 has a pretty high power capacity for a stock crap 5 speed. The t45 can be built into basically a tko though and that would be even stronger yet than the 3650 and easier to find parts for.

Wheat · 02-25-2007, 07:52 PM

I work at Springfield Motorsport in Lorton, and have for 12 years. My biggest gripe with the T-45 is the internal shift mechanism, which can take a dump for no apparant reason. Go ahead and keep the stock PCM and have it properly tuned, you know that one day you'll be doing a tune anyway, why also pay for another PCM and key programming?

*03gtmustang* · 02-25-2007, 09:22 PM

Okay, I know where that is Wheat. Ive been up to Lloyd's shop.

CCM, Chris @ Excessive told me to my face AFTER he tuned my auto, that he doesnt know shit about them. So Im not sure if hes just assuming youll need a new ECU or what, but it appears that you dont.

Wheat · 02-26-2007, 05:28 PM

03gtmustang, I guess that's why you now go to Ed Clark? Never met the guy, but he seems to know his stuff. Stop by the next time you go see Lloyd, he does all our machine work and balancing.

*03gtmustang* · 02-26-2007, 05:56 PM

Ed definitely knows his shit, real nice guy too. I doubt Ill be up there any time soon, not enough $$$ for any kind of engine work.

Excessive has def had some shit to say about you guys and Lloyd, and pretty much every other shop in the area. All Im going to post about my experience is, Ill never go there again and will never refer anyone to Excessive.

Wheat · 02-27-2007, 05:58 AM

I know they talk... whatever. I choose not to, most times. However, you should know that Lloyd doesn't do their engines anymore by his choice, not theirs. He got sick of being blamed when a motor burned a piston (must have been the hand cleaner he used before assembly).

*03gtmustang* · 02-27-2007, 06:42 AM

Good move on your part. Talking shit about other businesses to customers is not not something you do when trying to run a professional business.

r3dn3ck · 02-27-2007, 07:22 AM

here's a funny in local events that's similar:

tuner 1, buys a CHP built short block, puts it together with a 2v PI top end. The guy that does the assembly leaves the company. A new guy finishes assembly and dynos the car. Guy 1 starts working at a competing shop. The car blows on the dyno. Bad main bearing was blamed on guy1 buy guy2.

CHP was actually at fault. The main was obviously out of spec. Playing the blame game is lame.

Wheat · 02-27-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

here's a funny in local events that's similar:

tuner 1, buys a CHP built short block, puts it together with a 2v PI top end. The guy that does the assembly leaves the company. A new guy finishes assembly and dynos the car. Guy 1 starts working at a competing shop. The car blows on the dyno. Bad main bearing was blamed on guy1 buy guy2.

CHP was actually at fault. The main was obviously out of spec. Playing the blame game is lame.

That's the thing about following a shit trail. It's usually smeared, and half the time you wind up stepping in it.

r3dn3ck · 02-27-2007, 07:41 AM

my point exactly.

Chasinsparks · 02-27-2007, 03:15 PM

CCM, My car is getting the swap tomorrow 27 Feb, I'm going with the 3650 I was told to only change the harness, the only concern I have really is the speed odometer not sure how its going to be affected, its a little different then the old cars seeing as it is electronic, I will let you know the out come it sould be done by friday

3V2000GT · 02-27-2007, 03:20 PM

i had the auto to manual swap and am still using the stock computer, if they need to they can get a hold of www.loganmotorsports.com and Dwayne could probably help with how to tune it.

02-24-2007, 10:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
CCM Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,382	ECU question Apparently I'm gonna need an ECU from a manual transmission car when I switch from the auto to the T45 (at least that's what the shop said). They wanna sell me a SCT 4 bank one with a tune for $300. Can't I just go on eBay and buy an ECU from a 5 speed GT, or will that not work? __________________ 2001 MINERAL GRAY GT (5-speed) H&R SuperSports MM 4-Bolt CC Plates Stoptech SS Brake Lines '03 Cobra Brakes Spec Billet Steel Flywheel Spec Stage 2 Clutch FRPP 4.10s X-Calibrator 2 Full Length Subframes Corbeau Legacy Racing Seats 18" Gunmetal Saleen Rims w/ Nitto 555s

02-24-2007, 12:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,244	Why are you getting rid of the auto, and what shop is working on the car? __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-24-2007, 04:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,244	What shop? __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-24-2007, 08:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
CCM Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,382	Wheat, do you work at Excessive? That's where I'm taking it. They quoted me at $750 (10 hrs. @ $75 an hour I'm guessing) + $300 for a SCT 4-bank and new tune. So obviously I'm trying to skip out on the $300 if I don't have to have it. __________________ 2001 MINERAL GRAY GT (5-speed) H&R SuperSports MM 4-Bolt CC Plates Stoptech SS Brake Lines '03 Cobra Brakes Spec Billet Steel Flywheel Spec Stage 2 Clutch FRPP 4.10s X-Calibrator 2 Full Length Subframes Corbeau Legacy Racing Seats 18" Gunmetal Saleen Rims w/ Nitto 555s

02-25-2007, 09:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,244	Okay, I know where that is Wheat. Ive been up to Lloyd's shop. CCM, Chris @ Excessive told me to my face AFTER he tuned my auto, that he doesnt know shit about them. So Im not sure if hes just assuming youll need a new ECU or what, but it appears that you dont. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-24-2007, 10:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	you don't need a new ecu. the Auto ecu will need to be tuned but you don't need a new one from a manual car. If you do get one, then a GIZ2 ECU code is one of the better stock programs for your year out of the box. The only thing that's different is the harness leading into it and the specific stuff for auto-trans controls. Since you are only eliminating parts, the worst you'd get it a CEL and that probably won't even occur. MM&FF guys said in more than one issue in their Q&A section that it's a non-issue... so you don't just have my word for it.

02-24-2007, 11:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	All the ford ECU's for gas engines have the same basic structure. Some use data fields/tables/scalars/arrays/etc... that others don't which supports things like the 03 cobras and 03 gt's using the same basic computer hardware and only changing the tune file and wiring harness. Can you take my XSH1 tune and slap it on a GIZ2 box... yes but it won't be perfect or possibly even any good at all. this is where having a tuner that knows his business is important. The rpm issue is purely a tuning refinement issue. Someone should start by reducing the duty cycle value for the IAC. That should allow it to close earlier and more fully and knock the rpms down. You have to be careful with that though or you can cause stalling on closed throttle hard braking.

02-24-2007, 12:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wheat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 49	+1 for keeping the stock ECU and having it tuned. This is very easily done, flip the software switches, change # of holes for OSS sensor, load in IAC and dashpot settings from a same-year manual trans calibration, and tweak from there. And do yourself a favor, ditch the T45 and put in a 3650 or something else instead.

02-25-2007, 09:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	t45 is rated at like 50tq less than the 3650. it's not as strong and the manufacturer admits it. 3650 has a pretty high power capacity for a stock crap 5 speed. The t45 can be built into basically a tko though and that would be even stronger yet than the 3650 and easier to find parts for.

02-25-2007, 07:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
Wheat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 49	I work at Springfield Motorsport in Lorton, and have for 12 years. My biggest gripe with the T-45 is the internal shift mechanism, which can take a dump for no apparant reason. Go ahead and keep the stock PCM and have it properly tuned, you know that one day you'll be doing a tune anyway, why also pay for another PCM and key programming?

02-26-2007, 05:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
Wheat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 49	03gtmustang, I guess that's why you now go to Ed Clark? Never met the guy, but he seems to know his stuff. Stop by the next time you go see Lloyd, he does all our machine work and balancing.

02-26-2007, 05:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,244	Ed definitely knows his shit, real nice guy too. I doubt Ill be up there any time soon, not enough $$$ for any kind of engine work. Excessive has def had some shit to say about you guys and Lloyd, and pretty much every other shop in the area. All Im going to post about my experience is, Ill never go there again and will never refer anyone to Excessive. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-27-2007, 05:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
Wheat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 49	I know they talk... whatever. I choose not to, most times. However, you should know that Lloyd doesn't do their engines anymore by his choice, not theirs. He got sick of being blamed when a motor burned a piston (must have been the hand cleaner he used before assembly).

02-27-2007, 06:42 AM	#19 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,244	Good move on your part. Talking shit about other businesses to customers is not not something you do when trying to run a professional business. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-27-2007, 07:22 AM	#20 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	here's a funny in local events that's similar: tuner 1, buys a CHP built short block, puts it together with a 2v PI top end. The guy that does the assembly leaves the company. A new guy finishes assembly and dynos the car. Guy 1 starts working at a competing shop. The car blows on the dyno. Bad main bearing was blamed on guy1 buy guy2. CHP was actually at fault. The main was obviously out of spec. Playing the blame game is lame.

02-27-2007, 07:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	my point exactly.

02-27-2007, 03:15 PM	#23 (permalink)
Chasinsparks Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 80	CCM, My car is getting the swap tomorrow 27 Feb, I'm going with the 3650 I was told to only change the harness, the only concern I have really is the speed odometer not sure how its going to be affected, its a little different then the old cars seeing as it is electronic, I will let you know the out come it sould be done by friday

02-27-2007, 03:20 PM	#24 (permalink)
3V2000GT 46MONSTER Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wheaton, IL Posts: 2,209	i had the auto to manual swap and am still using the stock computer, if they need to they can get a hold of www.loganmotorsports.com and Dwayne could probably help with how to tune it. __________________ 2000 GT Black on Tan, TKO 600: 370rwhp 370rwtq NA Built 3v 2004 Honda CBR 600 F4i Black/Red 2000 SVT Lightning Silver i love jinny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! lucky is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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