mahle flat tops and I beams. Good deal. Now you've got a good foundation.

 

Yea, I never realized how many rings were involved in the piston install. I pulled out the ring set and never saw so many parts. This is either going to be a horrible disaster, or fall into place with no issues.

 

btw, do you know if the 3v windage tray will work with a 5.4? I figured I'd throw one in when I do the install so I don't have to take it apart again later.

 

My MAF just showed up R3d. Where can I pick up the security torx bit to swap the sensor over from my old MAF?

 

most hardware stores (orchard, lowes, home despot) carry them

 

I found them at autozone, always the first choice, it's in my backyard. Now I've got another issue. The stock sensor holes don't line up with the new one's holes. I thought this was a direct swap.

 

it should be... do you need me to send you my spare sensor?

post a pic. I've NEVER seen a SN95 MAF sensor that didn't plug into a 90mm LMAF.

 

The screw holes don't line up, I'll need that extra sensor.

I'll take a picture when I get home in about 30 minutes.

best pics I can get, the holes are about a half inch off.
d79aaf09.jpg?t=1284827599

f88f6e90.jpg?t=1284827648

 

Ookay forget 400 N/A, i was just spitballing honestly. Does the Hardballer intake still fit 4v motors? And when you say 01 cobra intake, why wouldnt you just use the navi intake? Also whats the difference between H beam and I beam rods, and lightweight vs normal?

 

Navi intake is WAY too tall. Going 4v is cool, but really expensive, trust me, my wallet is in pain and I don't ever go out anymore so I can pay for the parts. I'm pretty pumped though knowing that I'll have the only 5.4 4v sn95 in town and I'll be faster than almost every car in town aside from the terminators, shelby's, and a couple camaros. Nothing a 200 shot wont take care of.

 

I thought going 4v was only slighty more $? Heard that if you have a v6, you might as well get 4v. Whats the difference between 4v and 2v swaps?

 

Basically what everyone that has played with the 4-V option is trying to tell you is that everything is going to cost anywhere from 2/3 to twice as much after you get past the short block.

As for bang-per-buck, with the hihger volume new TFS 2-V heads and the HPS Hardballer intake you can still get good cam combinations/results, and along with everything else you can easily go beyond 1 HP per cubic inch at the rear wheels.

Think about it this way ... if you have approx. 350 - 375 RWHP (rear wheel HP) your torque is going to be phenominal with the 2-V heads alone, and that's NA. If that's not enough then you can go with an SC later.

What does PAXTON always say ... "Up to 40% more HP" ... ??? Adding 40% to 350 RWHP adds approx. 140 HP which bumps the output up to 490 HP (maybe 450 RWHP).

That is more RWHP than that car was ever supplied with from the factory in any engine combination. Add a good exhaust and with the bucks you'll save from NOT going 4-V, you'll be able to splurge on some real nice (and pricey) JESEL rockers that will make the deal even more sweeter, and quite likely by the time you're done you'll be pushing maybe 475 RWHP, all with half the moving parts in your valve train that you would have with the 4-V setup.

THAT should be enough to make you grin like a cat takin' a **** for a while.

Remember ... the more valves you have the more that are likely to float or get sucked in, the more valve seats you have to burn, etc.

Don't forget ... You got to spend a considerable amount of dyno time which may run in to more than you think once you start to see how well the tuning makes a difference. Add to that the oil system mods (deeper pan and better pump), fuel system mods and MAF mods, lighter flywheel, etc., and you already spent a small fortune.

Do the math, tally up all the costs of those various angles and you'll start to get a better picture of all the pro-2V advice you've been getting here.

Bottom line is ... there is always going to be something bigger and better, but for the results you'll get out of the money you've spent you'll probably be very pleased.

 

^^ The above helped a good bit, i somehow got the notion that going 4v vs 2v was hardly any more money, just harder to do. Considering the above id definatly go with a 2v, if it really is THAT much more for 4v. Btw wheres a good website for things of cam/heads nature?

 

I might be a little high with my HP estimates but Redneck will correct me if I am wrong. I'm willing to bet I am not too far off if I am at all.

As for websites ... You're in the best one for what you're trying to do. Take your time and research all the posts here. Beyong that you'll have to talk to the cam grinders and give them your target and see what they tell you.

 

nope, cams, head work, valve springs, etc... all twice as expensive with a 4v. You could be willing to go for it like me, but if I actually had a deadline and a budget, I would be staying 2v. TFS heads, cams, LTs, and HPS intake and I would be around 350 HP. I got a deal on some navi heads and never looked back, I'm shooting for 420+ out of my setup n/a. I wish I could find a way to hit 500 n/a but that's just pushing it.

 

How much should one look at for a very basic swap, basically just scraping by with what you can? Besides adapter plates, id rather buy the hardballer than deal with tons of leaks and etc. How much does it cost to get around 350ish HP with 2v? The only reason i was opting for 4v before was because it is supposedly the same swap for near same cash, but obviously i was wrong.

 

I'd say for 350, you're going to need at a minimum, a solid short block, TFS heads, big cams, HPS intake, LTs, and a good tune.

 

When you mean shortblock, whatcha mean? As in a standard 5.4 2v? Or something better? And how much does all that run? Id assume around 2500$ minimum?

 

I would say a standard 5.4 with upgraded rods at a minimum. The rods in those things is the weak point. I'm using forged I-beams and mahle flat tops for my n/a setup.

 

Is there a reason why most people want to keep their 5.4 2v Mustang N/A??? Seems if you go with some TFS heads, 9.0:1 or lower compression, nice cams, and a Hardballer intake, at centri supercharger would easy throw your HP through the roof....

Or instead of the Hardballer, a positive displacement blower would throw out enough torque to place the drivers butt in the rear seat....

I understand nitrous and N/A is cheaper.. But if your going for only 350 to 450 HP does not seem like the 5.4 entire swap is worth it... Just my opinion, which isn't worth much.....

 

There isn't a centri supercharger that bolts up to the 5.4, yet.

The deck of the 5.4 is too tall and wide for a positive displacement blower to be bolted on and fit under a reasonable cowl hood. People have done this but costs a few bucks for the parts to make it happen.

 

This, I've seen plenty of turbo 5.4s though. I've also seen enough Lightning swaps with the huge blower sticking through the hood to make me sick. Used to be one that lived next to me in bowling green and it looked a little sketchy, sorry if it's anyone's here, but I wouldn't want that because I don't trust people not to mess with my engine if there's nothing protecting it.

I'm still wondering about the GT500 swap though, obviously some things would need to be modded, but how hard would it be to fit under a reasonable hood? Either way, I'm just going to spray the **** out of mine till I need a new shortblock and then rebuild bigger and better and then look into boost on that setup. Hopefully I can last a couple years.

 

I would like to try and fit Whipple or Kenne Bell on a 5.4 2v with a 3" cowl(not to big) and a lowered k-member. I was advised the Tork Tech TVS would fit with just a small cowl hood but the TVS does not seem to have as much potential as a Whipple or KB.

For some reason I am retarded and not a turbo fan. Even though they seem to be the best power adder for 5.4 2v's...

The Lightning motor in a mustang, in my opinion, looks mean but also looks horrible. Not like an old school motor with a blower sticking out. I would not do it.

The GT500 would be nice, but a very pricey swap...

 

the reason most people don't slap a blower on is they drive it NA first. It's a lot of grunt to have all through the power band. It feels very much like a roots blown car.

you can get a PD blower with the TTI kit. Yeah, it's a little more limited but you can also use a KB/Whipple on an adapter plate (custom) and fit one of those on there. It's all about the bucks.

First, stop thinking of power as horsepower. That's an artificial number and only means more than jack **** at 5250rpm. Think of average tq production (area under the curve) and you'll have a better idea of your performance. I'd say if you want heads and cams, call up Nick at Modularheadshop.com and have him grind you up a set of custom cams (6500rpm peak) for a set of his stage 2 ported TFS heads. That'll be about 4K. Add a HPS intake and when you order it, have it ported by HPS. For your short block any of a dozen shops put together good motors for a good price. modularmustangracing.com comes to mind off hand as a good source for a bargain price. Ask nick at MHS if he can help there. He'll have better industry knowledge.

There's no reason to lower the k-member for most cases. I'll tell you if it's a good idea. Mostly that's for 5.4 powered fox bodies.

DO NOT attempt to use a box stock 5.4 bottom end on a performance engine (heads/cams/intake/exhaust/5500+rpm/launching/ANY power adder/etc...). You'll destroy the bottom end and maybe some of your top end too without too much work. If you want more than 5500rpm and/or any power adder then upgrade at least the connecting rods, main bolts, bearings.

4v is for guys with unlimited money supplies or a willingness to be very poor for a while.

Death: since you're coming from a v6 most people say if you're going to swap, swap to a 4v. That's true of a 4.6 since they're weak sauce. With a 5.4 bottom end the decision is purely budgetary. Mostly because the 5.4 will need to wind up to 6500+rpm to show its stuff and the stock rods are not going to hold. Secondly, when you put a 4v setup on a 5.4 you end up needing a bigger oil system and a bigger fuel setup and you get to deal with all the 4v stuff plus the 5.4 complications.

Once you're ready to get your parts, call up MHS.

 

r3d, can you send me that extra sensor? I need something to make this work.

I'm still undecided on what I'm going to do for oil and fuel systems. I need to get a windage tray, better oil pump, and a bigger tank/ pickup tube. As far as fuel, I'm thinking of running new lines and doing a sumped tank with a return line and everything. If not, I don't know the best way to make my system work.

 

Wait, i thought the 5.4s have a very quick torque curve and 90% of your power was at around 3k rpms. And with these motors why would you want to wind up that far? If your peak torque is available so low, why go huge rpms?

 

He's talking about 4v's, they love RPM.

 

Yep, I'm building mine to hopefully handle 7k. I saw a vid of a carbed 5.4 that did something like 8-9k. Thing sounded like a monster and made over 600 hp.

 

Sure can. There's only been 1 sensor used by mustangs for the 94-04 years though so I need to see what's up with yours or I bet it'll cost me a sensor for nothing and still not fix your problem. I need you to post a pic of your sensor on the MAF I sent you showing the hole misalignment. email to cburnssatgmaildotcom if you want or pm me ... whatev.

5.4 2v have and exceptionally large area under the tq curve and that line starts really high really early. In 2v form the tq is not so much a curve as a shelf see pic below:


that was one of the first runs on my motor with a heavily modified 4.6 Hardball'r intake on adapter plates. See the tq line starts near 300 at 2000 and peaks at 330+ around 3750-4000rpm.

Here's a 4.6:

Makes about 240 at 2000rpm and 275 at just over 4000rpm. Similarly shaped but the 4.6 lacks the extra stroke to pick up the bigger tq numbers early.

A 4v 5.4 will have the PEAK tq later (4700rpm+ is a good place to shoot) and make a bit less tq at 2000rpm than a 2v. It's not going to be at 4.6 tq levels down low though... it's still a long stroke skinny bore 5.4 which tends to tq bias the motor anyway.

Red car? 4" cowl? Slicks and Skinnies? Stands the front wheels up for 100ft? If you answered yes to these 4 questions, you've probably seen the legendary Al Papito. He makes over 8800rpm in his 4v, R' headed, high compression monster.

 

Yea it was Al's car. Thing gave me chills.



I've decided to go with a sumped fuel tank and external pump because I feel like it will give me more room to grow and I wont have any issues with running out of fuel. Not only that, but it will look really cool.

I'm PMing you now with those pics of the sensor right now.