they are factory plastic,they are sprayed with the new process made by spectra chrome,spray on chrome the stuff is badass will never rust

 

The 5.4 pan is a little deeper and won't clear a mustangs factory K-member.

 

mean330 comin in with the good info.

side by side won't help. The differences aren't that visually distinct. The baffles in the front of a 5.4 pan are shorter and the sump is deeper.

Use your 4.6 pan or any pan designed for use on a modular v8 with your vehicle. Bang the baffles down a hair and use a mustang oil pickup tube.

 

what do you guys think of the MMR 351r CAST IRON BLOCK. It's a 5.4 bored to a 5.8. I know it will pick up more torque and HP than a 5.4 but my real question here is does a big bore lower the redline? is the price worth it $3,300
or would it be cheaper to buy a 5.4 iron block and let a machine shop do the work.
the thing I like about MMR they have a payment plan. If I went with a 351r block from mmr and choose to build a 4 valve dohc motor can i use any gt500 engine mods such as heads, cams and even headers. I know i most likely will need a cowl hood but im ok with that.

 

Personally I dont know why Ford doesn't cast a big bore 5.4 like they did the 4.6 to 5.0 size. Even if it was kind of pricery I think they could sell it at least across the counter.

I prefer a bigger bore over a longer stroke. I'm "old-school"; always having wished Ford would've arrived at the 5.4 (331 CID) displacement with more bore and less stroke which I feel would allow the RPM(s) to rev faster. The current 5.4 has an extremely longer stroke but with a tiny bore (IMO) but the longer stroke does provide impressive torque. The smaller bore of course allows for better fuel economy in dealing with the C.A.F.E. issues.

The bigger bore provides more volume for the given stroke of the engine therefore enabling the engine to process more volume of air/fuel mixture that should provide more power to move the longer stroke faster as opposed to a smaller bore.

The issue I think you need to watch out for is the vulnerability of the block once it is punched out that far beyond what it's maximum bore value was as originally cast. I've heard nothing but positive history about MMR and their products and I too have looked at the very same package your're speaking of but there's a myriad of reasons I haven't begun buying parts yet.

As far as putting the 5.4 in where the 4.6 once was is realtively simple (thanks mostly to the founder of this thread and all those that have contributed thereafter) and is probably the best bang for the lower bucks spent. It doesn't seem too hard to approach the 1 HP per CID ratio in NA trim which is optimum for the street for the money spent.

MMR more than likely has to complete some magical machining to get the 5.8 to work and hold up and it might be worth the $3-K (+) for the package they offer, if you really want to spend that extra money. I recommend searching for others that have gone that route and see what their comments are before laying your hard-earned dollars down. I presonally don't know of anyone here locally that has built the MMR 5.8 but I'm sure they'll surface in time.

Sorry if I've been too long winded for your response but I hope it gives you an additional angle to view your idea. Hope it helps.

 

if your building a serious motor and can afford the block i would go with it. who here wouldn't want a 5.8? that block is bad to the bone. you could just use it as is and have a serious monster on your hands...

 

I don't mind the long response at all, especially from car experts like you guys. I know livernois motorsports bore the 5.4 to 6.0 but it is quite pricey and no payment plan and I also heard a lot of good things about MMR. I personally have not been able to find much information on a 5.4 bored to 5.8 project. I have found 351W also 5.8 but is not what I was looking for. I imagine gt500 parts could bolt on to it, can they? My goal is to just have a monster for the streets not planning to be a racer, just maybe few passes every 3 months or so. I will call MMR and personally ask some questions about the block and let you guys know. any questions you would like me to ask?

 

In my opinion, the most important thing to ask them is how many of these have they sold and how many of them have suffered problems and/or been returned ... (???)

What problems were suffered (mainly cooling problems) ?

What off-the-shelf parts from Ford and aftermarket providers can/cannot be used?

 

that's the short answer as I'd give it. The wider bore is only going to be taken advantage of by 3v/4v/TFS heads. The PI head even ported is going to cap the **** out of the power but there'd still be mountains of tq to be had with PI heads.

I've spoken with the owner a few times regarding the big bore block. I had thought they would have constant problems with HG failures cylinder to cylinder due to the extremely narrow fire path. They profess that to not be the case. I was also concerned about the sleeves cooling properly and they tell me that's not a problem they've encountered due to the block setup. Anything you can bolt to a standard modular block you can bolt to their 351R.

What you'll get with proper heads is a higher hp number compared to a standard bore block and a motor with a much broader power band. No RPM limitations occur as a function of the wider bore, that's actually something you see with the 6.0L stroker setups. The 5.4 already has a giant stroke even by big block standards and the only thing it needs to shine as a block is a wider bore, which the MMR thing does nicely.

Is it worth 3 grand.... **** no. A blower will do the same thing for you.

That is still a good plan. I spoke with them over a year ago... things change as time goes on.

 

special deal for any of you swappers on the beast sale.... 11K and I'll tune it and put new seats in it.

 

i'd get the 351r block if i was going navi heads and full custom intake with twin 67mm turbos or maybe the new 4.0 twin screw... that would be alittel too much to handle on street tires....

 

Hmm, gonna have to test this.

 

so I was able to speak to rick from MMR and this is what he said about the block

since the block is a big bore(3.700) so it will require big bore pistons
he said the block can safely handle 1000HP naturally aspirated
he said he has not seen anyone use this block as a daily driver so he doesn't know what the reliability issues may or may not be.
He doesn't expect the gaskets to leak

I am getting more convinced this is the path I want to go, although I will keep doing more research before putting some money on it. I had a question for the tuning, I have a 2000 Gt if i went with the 5.8 I know I will have to get the intake adapter and perhaps a cowl hood. Is there any problems with the exhaust or headers fitting properly and lastly I know it needs to get a tune will a handheld tuner do it or is it best to take it to an engine dyno and let them tune it. Imagine how much power a 5.8 would put down, I am excited if I get it come on guys tell me what you honestly think about the block

 

Just going to toss my 2 cents in.
1. The MMR 5.8 is a race engine. I can't stress that enough.
2. It's right on the ragged edge and use of it is an acknowledgment that pulling the motor periodically and doing a full tear down on it to replace a popped HG isn't a problem for you.
3. For a daily driver it's just tempting fate.

Trust me, you can do big power on a 4v without having to resort to 3K dollar blocks filled with custom made parts. A simple .020 or .030 over bore on a standard 5.4 block that's been properly machined (decks trued, mains trued, torque plate bore, etc...) with a good set of 4v heads and I know for a fact well over 500hp is attainable NA or blown.

You don't need or really probably want intake adapter plates. They lead to things like cowl hoods which are unnecessary and they suck dick power wise. You can simply stick the top end of a gt500 on the car, or if you decide on a NA car, there are a couple options for intakes, they're not cheap but they're around.

You'll need some minor custom exhaust work but I wouldn't stress over that. You can take the flanges from a set of gt500 shorties and have the primaries from a set of 99-04 cobra/mach1 shorties welded onto them (if they're appreciably different) and bango, you've got shorties. You may be able to use gt500 manifolds as they sit but I'm not sure and that's a tiny *** detail in the grand scheme of things.

You will need a dyno tune. With a supercharged 4v in place of your old 2v, yeah... you're gunna need to trailer it to the dyno cuz' I'm kinda doubting it'll run and even if it does I'm betting the huge fuel injectors will wash down the cylinders before you have a chance to tune it. So, basically it needs a baseline tune on it before you even start it up if you go the GT500 top end route.

Do this 1 thing for me: Tell us how much power you want and how much money you have and we'll help you take care of both.

 

Im not trying to be an *** or anything, but if your willing to spend 3K+ on a block, pony up for an intake...not the adapters.
Also;
HP is not an issue with the iron 5.4 block.
And last;
I've ridden in 600+ HP cars...trust me, when you get THAT much power on the street...it is almost no fun anymore. Build an NA 4v or NA 2v for that matter, 4-500 NA hp will be plenty for your DD and you will have to ability to whoop up on the vast majority of anything that you pull up against...

Like I said, just my .02 cents...

 

Yeah... I'm in total agreement there. I've driven more 600+hp cars than you can shake a stick at and the one thing they all had in common was they were a bitch to deal with. Just a single bad blip on the gas and you can be all wrinkled up, traction is elusive at best and gas consumption is astronomical.

A 450rwhp street car is all the power the average blacktop and street tires can handle. Anything more is just going to be more hassle than it's worth.

 

Minor update..
I would like to use my block for next spring on my car but all the money I will have to dump into it to get it going I will be limited to upgrade... I have come to the conclusion of either getting a set of patriot heads and some decent cams.. or just rebuild the 5.4 engine with it sitting at 122 xxx.
I have basic bolt ons that will switch over with no probs except my bbk shorty's apparently.

Heads and cams about $2300ish?
Mechanic engine install & bending of x-pipe $600-1000?
Hardballer $700?
Professional tune $?

Any ball park figures are appreciated, what would it roughly cost to port the heads and match it?Is it worth porting and building up the current pi heads while costing much less??

 

I had my heads ported for about 900, cams run about 500-600.
new valves are about 250.
tune-expect around 3-400

 

My goal is make anywhere between 400-500 horsepower. I have about 3g.
You just convinced me I will stick with a 5.4 block. I will like to keep my stock mustang heads and cams my final goal is to make 400-500 horsepower N/A with full bolt ons. I am also working on weight reduction I have a nice list of the weight reduction for my car. It's not complete but when I finish It I will post.
Will such a small bore help the car like .10 over? you know what your so damn right screw the intake plates I am going to get an aftermarket gt500 intake manifold with gt500 long tube headers and exhaust instead of wasting my money on that block. If I decide to stay 2 valve would i still be able to use a gt500 intake manifold and headers?

 

No for the 5.4 2V you'll need to find the HPS intake. Really nice piece from what I've heard..Im still waiting on mine to get here......anyways.

The best out of a NA 2v so far is high 300's if memory serves. NA 4v 400ish range.

As far as the overbore Im not really sure...that would be a R3d or someone with more knowledge than myslef question.

 

the .020 overbore is the sweet spot. It helps unshroud the intake valve and doesn't lead to overheating problems like I hear about with .030 and greater cuts. As far as the gt500 top end, it's gunna be spendy. There's a lot of parts you're not aware of needing yet and that are not cheap. Sometimes you have to make them.

You can't do what you want for 3k. Here's how to get there at all: get a regular ol 5.4 block and bore it .020 over. Get a set of TFS heads and have them ported till they can't port them no more (focus on the intake side, exhaust flows too much anyway) and a MHS Stage 3.5 5.4NA cam. Buy a set of FTP's 5.4 longtube headers (myillwill, a link if you would). And toss in a HPS intake.

So:
500 for the block and machining
1300 forged rods&pistons, rings, bearings, arp main studs
2700 Heads with porting
600 cams
400 head bolts, gaskets
700 intake manifold
1000 headers

7200 bucks plus install and assembly and you're done. 400hp NA is 10grand no matter how you slice it.

Now, 300 and change NA that feels like 350-370, that's a lot cheaper. Nuke the heads and get a few bits used and you can see 315rw and mountains of tq for 4500 + install and assembly.

Hey.... here's an idea. Save up about 10K more and just buy my car. It's supercharged but you can learn to deal with that hehe.

 

[quote=r3dn3ck;443705]the .020 overbore is the sweet spot. It helps unshroud the intake valve and doesn't lead to overheating problems like I hear about with .030 and greater cuts. As far as the gt500 top end, it's gunna be spendy. There's a lot of parts you're not aware of needing yet and that are not cheap. Sometimes you have to make them.

You can't do what you want for 3k. Here's how to get there at all: get a regular ol 5.4 block and bore it .020 over. Get a set of TFS heads and have them ported till they can't port them no more (focus on the intake side, exhaust flows too much anyway) and a MHS Stage 3.5 5.4NA cam. Buy a set of FTP's 5.4 longtube headers (myillwill, a link if you would). And toss in a HPS intake.

So:
500 for the block and machining
1300 forged rods&pistons, rings, bearings, arp main studs
2700 Heads with porting
600 cams
400 head bolts, gaskets
700 intake manifold
1000 headers

7200 bucks plus install and assembly and you're done. 400hp NA is 10grand no matter how you slice it.

quote]

10 grand really? I think you could pull off 400 hp with a stock 5.4 short block, the trick flow heads, custom grind cams, the hps intake and those headers and a good tune which is no where near 10g....

 

If im not close to 400RWHP with my setup i will prob kill some kittens and small children

 

For now I am going to get the HPS 5.4 intake, the 5.4 block with .20 over bore
a cold air intake and a tune keeping everything stock on my gt. How do you think the numbers would look like as far as HP and torque.

 

Numbers mean nothing when its going to be anything better then a 98 4.6 NPI
lol

Thanks for the rough #'s

 

bigbore: need head and cam selection info before I could even guess. Any guess is just that... a wild *** guess.

 

omaha: check out MHS (modular head shop) for your heads and cams. For what you've got allotted you can definitely pick up a set of TFS heads and a custom MHS cam set for it.

 

I don't advocate using the stock pistons, rods or bearings. The stock rods are a windowed block waiting to happen, stock bearings are the usual cause of said rod failure and stock pistons... well why not replace them while you're replacing the rods and bearings, it's easier that way.

I know of a couple guys here that assembled and installed their own stuff and it cost them a lot less but, you have to have the skills and the tools and the time.

 

I am planning on getting twisted wedge trick flow heads race ported and for cams I don't know. I don't know anything on how to select a cam on read their specs. what I do want is a cam that does not have a rough idle I want people to believe im rocking the stock ones.

to all those who have swapped in the 5.4 do you guys keep the stock tranny?

It's ok if i don't get it tune and drive it for a couple hours because the closest shop is about an hour away from me. will it be affected?

I was looking atMMR Custom TURBO CAMSI might get those, anyone have used them before. where is the link to those long tube headers?

 

[quote=bigbore5.4;443822]I am planning on getting twisted wedge trick flow heads race ported and for cams I don't know. I don't know anything on how to select a cam on read their specs. what I do want is a cam that does not have a rough idle I want people to believe im rocking the stock ones.

to all those who have swapped in the 5.4 do you guys keep the stock tranny?


I think your gonna have a hard time finding cams that sound stock and add much performance. If your going turbo once you get on it people will know somethings up anyways. You might as well have that nice aggressive idle to go with it.

I kept the stock tremec 3650 and it has held up fine for a couple years and i'm pretty hard on it. With having 460+ rwtq now i'm thinkin it will puke soon though.