What's wrong with the 5.4 pan?

 

Its made to work in whatever vehicle it came out of, not a mustang, so it probably wont clear. I didn't bother to check and just went with a canton pan.


With all the talk of 3v's, I heard some stuff while I was at the dealership talking to some of the guys I know up there. Apparently they're having issues with the spark plugs in the 3v heads coming apart. He was putting plugs in a '07 F150 with 90k miles and had 5 of 8 plugs break. The threads come out but the tip of the plug stays in the head, you can google it and find out more if you want.

 

I was planning on using a Canton pan as well. And that's an interesting note about 3v's.

 

okay gotta use the 4.6 pan; so oil capacity is still 6 quarts?

test fitted the flywheel and found out two of the 8 bolts dont line up.

what are you guys doing about exhaust? on the passenger side it wont match up at all really.
pictures would be great help.

 

Hey Joey,

I don't know about the flywheel mine lined right up. What year is the engine and what tranny are you using? But as far as the exhaust, I had to extend the h-pipe about an 1in 1/2 and it should bolt right up. I have also been told that you may have to extend the passanger mid-pipe, but mine did not require that.

Also Red
As for the passenger LT is does look like a snake orgy LOL. The driverside is almost done. Just trying to find a way between the frame and the steering arm. PITA to say the least.

 

well its a 2000 engine from an expedition. trans is my factory one from the 98gt. so im not sure. ill take some pictures tomorrow and put them up. wow see my exhaust flanges on the passenger side wont line up, angle wise. are you still using the factory 5.4 manifolds?

 

Is the nav engine 4v or 2v? Also are you sure the flywheel is a 10.5? I know the 11 will not line up correctly. I swapped my 4.6l pi heads and exhaust manifolds onto the 5.4l as well until I decided to do LTs

 

Did you swap your heads and manifolds?

 

Hey Joey, I'm definitely no expert on this subject by no means, but from what I've been researching myself, all the bolt on stuff (manifolds, intakes, oil pan, yada yada yada) have to be for a mustang specifically. From looking at everybody elses setup, most have just went ahead and opted for the FRPP headers since until now, there hasn't been a long tube or another shorty that fits without major modifications and the FRPP will give you just a bit more than a stock mustang exhaust manifold. Plus right now will be the best time to install a set of headers, without it being a real PITA. Soo with saying all that, I imagine the 5.4 manifolds you are trying to use, are ment for a van, suv, or truck with more clearnace than we have.

Hope that helps a little...If what I've said is wrong, scold me right now (anybody else that has a set of 5.4 manifolds working)

 

Bem your right. Basically using the 5.4 long block and switching over the 4.6 top end, plus a few odds and ends.

 

Theres one hole thats offset, measure the distance between the holes on the flywheel and the holes on the crank. You should be able to find it, then they'll all line up.

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...0/4ec16105.jpg

Thats what mine looked like before I started, its just a cheap pypes x pipe.
I ended up heating and bending it enough to bolt together.

 

When I was researching the swap (that I'm now knuckle deep in) I looked all of this up.

Late in the 1999 model year they introduce the 4v DOHC "InTech" Engine. I think the 05+ models have a 3v head though the stock engine gives the same numbers as the stock 4v. Supposedly, the 4v Navigator and the 2000 Cobra R share the same bottom end though I personally doubt they have the same rods.

 

Bem & GT, i got the motor as a complete thing. pan to intake. whats the difference in the 5.4 heads and the 4.6 heads? Yes the engine came out of an suv.

morgan, thanks for the advise with the flywheel and exhaust. ill check it out tomorrow.

 

not the best pic but i mounted the intercooler tonite up behind the bumper brace so when the bumper cover is n, it will hid the intercooler completly. the brace will be cut in the center so air can pass over all of it.

 

One of the "technical" guys around here will have to give ya true differences between the 4.6 and 5.4 heads because I'm not completely sure. But I'm guessing the combustion chambers are different, causing a different compression ratio. Also the flow ratings (2v 5.4 heads vs 2v 4.6 heads that is) of the 4.6 PI heads should be better. But once again, somebody that's been working with these engines for a while longer than me can tell ya the true differences.

Also as Morgan mentioned (was going to mention it earlier but wasn't sure on the mod engines) there's an offset hole more than likely, so just move the flywheel hole to hole until it all lines up.

Good Luck Tommorow

Forgite to mention that I think most people use the 4.6 PI Cams too, if they can't afford aftermarkets...

 

Myillwillinc, looks like you are making good progress with your car, checked out your pics on the site. She could definately be a sleeper as long as you can keep the lope and turbo's quiet. . I would almost love to have some electric exhaust cutouts for that thing.........

 

problem with the cutouts is that the turbos will be remote mounted, so there isn't anywhere for the cutout to be useful

 

First thing would be to warm the engine up and check again. If its still low, try adding a teaspoon of oil to a cyl, see if the compression goes up. If it does its probably ring related. If that doesnt affect anything do a compression test. Then you should do is a leakdown test. This will tell you where(IF ANY) air is escaping. I have seen engine have bad compression and good leakdown and visa versa. Let me go into a little more detail about what your results could indicate.

You have low compression on (all??) cyls. You said it was 90, how was the test performed? Warm? Cold? How long did you crank the engine over? Battery condition? All these effect compression results. Your tuner should not have made the assumption he did by what little info he had to go on. I would have asked you 9000 questions before making the statement he made. The "fake plug on a flimsy hose" can be tough to get a good seal HOWEVER since all are the same thats probably not the case. You could have bad valvejob, bad rings, unseated rings(if new engine). When you do a compression test all you are doing is seeing just how much air the cyl will compress. Nothing more. IMO a compression test alone is pretty much worthless. I have seen numerous engines have good compression and be completly shot. Hell starter condition even effects the results. BUT it still needs to be done, it can find other issues that a leakdown tester cant. Yes, you read that right. I know it seems most say that a leakdown test is a 100% sureway to see all problems, that s completly false. I have personally seen an engine have a whiped cam lobe and not make any compression. You would NEVER see this with a leakdown test alone, it would show(assuming valve itself is in good working order) great leakdown.

Now, what does the readings mean? If you have 90psi of cold compression, thats not to say that the engine will be down on power. When warmed up you may be well into range. A turbo car isnt nearly effected power wise as an na engine since the turbo will just work harder to fill that cyl(assuming its leaking from somewhere). With all cyl at 90 cold I would venture to say you wouldnt gain but a few hp with a freshenup(assuming its not cam related). What you have to look out for in this/your case is overspinning the turbo causing excessive backpressure/heat which will lead to lower hp numbers.

I too would check the valvetrain since all are low and I assume a newer engine. Here is a writeup I wrote on supraforums showing how to make an awsome leakdown tester. http://supraforums.com/forum/showthr...light=leakdown

All that being said, just think of how many cars are sold because the compression test came back good? Hell on my supra I have one cyl with good leakdown/bad compression and another with bad leakdown and good compression. I realize I have jumbled the hell out of this post(sorry, its late) and kinda skipped around so feel free to give me a call if you need something explained in more details. 434 470 2700
Also, I didnt see your dyno results?

 

Oh yea, forgot to add. Havnt seen all in a while. I decided last night to swap in a 98 cobra engine into a 95 I picked up a week ago. Hoping it turns out nice. I figure I can post that in this thread since I done the 5.4 route allready LOL

 

No difference between 5.4 and 4.6 heads. Remember, the only difference between a 5.4 and 4.6 is the 5.4 has about an extra 1" of deck height so it gets a different crank, rods, timing cover, chain, and guides. Everything else is the exact same as on the 4.6.

As for the 3V plugs, they have redesigned the plugs so that is no longer an issue. Problem use to be that the weld that attached the threaded part to the body was too weak so to prevent this, plugs had to be taken out while warm still.

 

Just for the sake of asking, are there any 3v 5.4 supercharger setups available? And if so, will any of them fit under a stock hood?

 

W00T!! yall were right about the flywheel. it does fit. i can get away with leaving the 5.4 head on? and i shouldnt have any problems like exhaust manifolds or anything?

okay this may sound like a dumb question but how are you guys pulling the drive shaft to get the trans out?

 

If you have the right tools, you can just leave the trans in the car. And everything should be fine with the 4.6 heads. The only thing you may have to do is some minor trimming of the exhaust manifolds. After that it's just a matter of messing with the rest of the exhaust to fit the wider 5.4.

 

i probably dont have the right tools to be honest. its all hand tools. no air tools. =(
isnt it easier to line the clutch and everthing up with the trans out of the car?
ooh almost forgot, do the flywheel bolts need to be torqued to any special specs?

 

By tools I meant various bendy bits and extensions, but you're probably right. Might be easier to hook up a stick trans with it out of the vehicle.

 

okay so whats the easiest way of going about pulling the driveshaft?

 

The only difference in PI heads from one source to another is that some are from the Romeo engine plant and some are from Windsor, and they have a different numbers of valve cover bolts (I think 11 vs 13 IIRC). All PI cams are the same regardless of vehicle. In other words if you have a PI 5.4 you are throwing money away (gaskets, bolts, and time) if you swap over to stuff from a 4.6.....


The heads and plugs were changed somewhere in the '08 model year, and from what I could find the only way to tell which you have is by the color of the COPs.... The other style has severe problems when it comes time to change them, and there is no surefire way (like a warm engine) to keep them from coming apart. Its a complete craps shoot...


The clutch is aligned with a tool when its installed, before the trans is involved. When it comes to putting them together its not that hard in the vehicle, probably easier than pulling it. Best thing I can recommend for such things is to get ahold of an old driveshaft yoke that you can stick in the end of the trans and use to easily rotate by hand. Also works very nicely to stop leakage when you pull a driveshaft out.

 

TurboX2, not trying to start anything with ya just wondering.... So there is absolutely no difference between truck,van,suv cam compared to the mustang cam? Just seems to me Ford would want a different cam for a mustang that's going to turn a bit more RPM's compared to a F150 that's more than likely going to pull something in the 2-3000 RPM range. And again, just wondering.

 

As far as I've ever been able to dig up, all PI cams are the same whether car, truck, Lightning, etc... The cam isn't very big in a 4.6, and the extra cubes in a 5.4 naturally brings the usable rpm range down. Any cam will act milder when you put it in a bigger motor.

 

Supra: I wonder how your advice would change if you knew that my engine is equivically brand new. I've taken a route not many people take in this forum, and I've purchased almost everything brand new. Manley forged internals, all new; comp cam springs/manley valves [you get the idea] The only thing reused were: the block (which was boiled and inspected and cleaned up) the heads (which were ported, machined and recieved all new internals), and the power steering pump (from my mustang), and the rear axel. Everything else in the power train is brand new (to-date expense of about 25k). Oh and some Ebay 96-98 Cobra valve covers. So while I agree there is a possiblity that i could be suffering from these problems, how likely is it?