230 duration @ .050 is good to 7200 rpm on 3v. this isnt 2v.

 

im looking at stock bottom end and 6000 rpm's MAX (MAYBE 6500 with 4.6 3v intake). end if i had a totally forged bottomend , i'd never rev it that high. i want this engine to be a stop light beast. not really going to track it. maybe twice a year TOPS. its a DD first and formost that i want to be realiable and fast. i have no idea when it comes to cam profiles. this is where i need tons of help. i can build anything but the science of picking the right cam for a 5.4 3v in a car is proving to be tricky. what cam do you recommend part # ?
thanks guys, you are invaluable! oh and bill what where you saying about needing ev6/ev1 plugs?

 

If you are in doubt on cams, there's no better resource than the cam company themselves. They have dedicated hotlines for recommendations and also forms online for one. Also, open up your choices, there's also Crane and Crower to look at.

 

I'd definitely call comp, crane and crower.

 

got off the phone with Comp.

they said to go with their stage 1 xf1 cams and stock springs.

750-6200 dur .253/.270 @.5 214/227 lift .450/.450 lsa 114

so i have been takin 100rpms off the operating range since its going in a 5.4 and not a 4.6. so idle to 5200 seems good...or does it? i may have to use the truck intake for awhile but i do want a better intake even if it means i have to make my own adaptors.

thanks

 

you really cant think in terms of powerband for these motors and compare them to 4.6.
what i mean is, with adequate intake and stage 1 cams it will peak at 6200 which will blow up the rods. there is more than enough flow to make sill tpower at 6000.


BUT fellas there is WAY more to 3v than a flow number:let me explain...

 

flow on terms of cfm has less to do with actual power than volume of air filling the cylinder.

i will use a couple of illustrations.

first 4v tumble ports: take a flat port floor and make a sudden 90 degree turn into a cylinder. the weight in motion of the air will make the volume overshoot the short side and enter the cylinder mostly on 2/3rds of the valve. so how in the world do you get a really bad port design to make power? (fill volume of air) you make it flow gangbusters of air in cfm.

5.4 2v.... why does 5.4 2v fall short in terms of top end power? i know this will offend many of you. well its sonic choke. as a given port with X cross section attempts to flow high volumes of N/A air the structures inside the port begin to exibit shock waves, such that as they approach the speed of sound the waves stall airflow within the port. it the old blowing through a straw. the long stroke has less to do with the power curve of 5.4 2v than the small ports that can be ported for excellent flow numbers(220). with a small cross section to use 2v is limited at the top end.

enter 3v. and the reason i sent the Mach1 motor i originally purchased back.

what happens when a port only has to make a 45 degree turn into the cylinder? well you get good flow characteristics, for one.
for two, you can use a moderately sized volume on the port for torque.(low rpm cylinder filling)

three, there is no reason to make it flow 300 cfm to get VERY high end cylinder filling.


i know i have offended many of you, but i seriously am not trying to. 2v is fine great torque and more than enough power.
4v is too expensive.
3v has no good intake unless you make one or mod the one you have.

so the 5.4 2v is still the option for most.

 

i know cam choice for this motor isnt as easy as askin the 4.6 3v guys cause this is its own beast. i figured the guys in the KNOW are right here reading this. hell id buy a cam by you guys advice over comp any day. you guys have driven the cars and done the leg work. comp types numbers in a spreadsheet and relays that info to the caller. i havent ever found usefull info on the truck forums.

Bill take a look at the comp website they have like 9 cams for the 3v. i just want a cam that will fill the cylinders and use ALL of the 5.4 that it can.

 

1. a 4.6 2v with stock heads 6200 rpm is the real practical high rpm limit. even with a good intake and cams.
2. a 4.6 4v with stock heads 6600 with supporting bolt ons and cams.
3. a 4.6 3v with stock heads 7200 with mild cams higher with really big crane cams. stock heads, stock intake, stock TB.

 

seriously... the comp stage 1 or 2 is all you need.


if you want it all stage 3. but you will not hear a lope.

i will put stage 2's in mine some time. -

 

ok brb on the CC site

 

do go with their suggestion please. they are right

 

you can always phase the cams for top end with al papito's adjuster if you ever forge it and want to run 6000+. those cams will do the job fine.

 

SWEET. thank you.

oh and what motor mounts did you use?
i'm going to use the 99-04 mounts on the 05 block..
the mounts on the 05 blocks are the same as the older ones right?
only reason i ask is i was told that was one thing that was changed when the 5.4 block was redone in 02 or 03.

 

the mounts are identical

 

thought so, thanks.

lol im going to get to 500 post all from this one thread.

hey we have this 2 part epoxy that is used to fuse aircraft wings and engine inlets etc together. i wonder if it would be strong enough to use to mate a 5.4 intake to the 4.6. i might cut my old cracked 4.6 2v intake and see how well it hows together.

 

Don't forget the good ol' effects of viscous flow. The faster the flow through a smaller cross section, the more power it takes to actually move the fluid so you reach a point where the fluid can only go so fast (in terms of flow rate) since the force of suction from the cylinders can't be changed really. However, if the engine can somehow get past that point, then you enter turbulent flow which probably isn't good to have in take ports.

 

right on. +1

 

thermo-plastics(xytel) cannot be bonded with any real strength.

 

from what im finding it will be way easier to make adaptors. if the cmcv plates are removed then you can use that extra space to make the adaptors. would acrylic work as a prototype or is it alum all the way?

 

If you're talking about making a prototype just for dimensions, not to run the car w/ it, then yes, you can use either. Personally, I'd use Aluminum since Acrylic is very fussy unless you have extremely sharp tools.

 

assassin is quite right about the 2v. We all know that the 2v head has an upper limit (a few have even reached it). Plain fact is 3v heads are going to take as much research and development in intakes, cams and exhaust as we've poured into the 2v and 4v to get the same kind of returns. We've managed to chase every ounce of hp that the 2v heads are capable of, similar case with the 4v heads but 3v heads have had almost no cam development, zero intake development and only a couple exhaust options.

Give assassin and his 3v cronies another 2-3 years and I'd be surprised if you weren't seeing 400+rwhp NA out of 3v 5.4's.

 

after looking at the pics of the intake adaptors i have a question about the injectors.
do they sit in the intake and spray through a hole in the adaptor or do they sit in the adaptor and bypass the stock injector hole?

just wondering.

 

if someone could just build a 2v intake tunnel ram, maybe some of the shortcomings can be overcome.

 

the injrctors are seated in the plastic manifold and shoot through the adapter.

 

Started it up today with turbo on it, running 3.5" single exhaust with a Flowmaster single chamber and it sounds awsome!!! Cant wait to drive it but still have some fabbing left to do

 

A tunnel ram would be sick but definitely wouldn't fit under the stock hood. I'm sure the coming HPS intake will make huge improvements but again, the problem will be in the heads. It's a shame that no one has plans to make aftermarket ones since I'm sure companies like AFR can make streetable heads that flow as well as race ported stockers. It'd be sick if someone could also make a hemi style head which will help to increase valve size for even more flow.

 

does anyone have any close up detail pics of the 5.4 2v adaptors. im going to make the 3v the same style as the 2v.

the length and width will be determined by the intake and block. thats easy, but how high should i make the adaptors? 1", 2", 1 1/2" ?

 

while working on getting my hood/bumper painted and sending my headers to r3d i pickedup a nice addition to my build.....



so my jet technologies sc will be up for sale in the classified section....

 

someone's gunna be wired up from monster. haha. good stuff.

just checking in. i see we've picked up some more. good to see. i'm still broke and in college, so nothing new from me. i'll be watching you guys finish up and learn from your success and failures. (hopefully, no failures.)