The End of Factory Turbos
#1
07-24-2005, 06:33 AM
The End of Factory Turbos
Just completed a review of the new lineups, and lots of companies are pulling the plug on their factory turbo offerings.
Mitsubishi is betting the farm on their new big-butt Eclipse with a v6, and shelving the turbo.
Dodge is putting the SRT-4 out to pasture completely, promising a "draft pick to be named later" to replace it. With the fact that their lineup is now stuffed full of cars available with Hemi V-8's, one suspects that they figured out pretty fast that the SRT-4 at best was just going to syphon sales away from the more expensive hemis...
Ford will sell no turbo cars in the US this year, and GM will offer only 1 Saab drivetrain with a turbo (down from a full lineup several years ago). Since Saab is really a euro maker, and not focused very well on the US market, this is logical. The euro makers will continue offering turbos forever, given that their home market sales are dominated by DIESELS (this is what happens when government and abusive gas taxes get involved in transportation). The best way to make a tiny diesel perform is via a turbo (big diesels like 'em too, of course).
Nissan has hitched its wagon to hot V6's and V8's, with a few offerings of small superchargers - no turbos.
Mazda is heartily mining its successful road-course inspired suspensions and free-revving V6's - and again, I saw no turbos.
I did not spend a great deal of time studying the Toyota lineup, since I find their car styling horrible, but I doubt they will be offering much in the way of turbocharging either.
Honda/Acura has moved away from turbocharging, and I believe they will now offer not a one to the US market. The huge number of aftermarket turbo installs on Civics and such will no doubt thrive, but you won't be buying cars with them new from the dealer.
This leaves Subaru, who has hung all of its performance hopes on turbochargers for decades, and shows no signs of changing. Keep in mind the relative high cost of Subaru's, and one can see how they plan to stay in business - which is not by selling $20,000 WRX's (but IS by selling $30,000 WRX's).
The future of factory pocket rockets with turbos (other than the offerings from the various euromobiles and Subaru) is a marketing idea that has run its course. Dodge appears to have discovered the non-news that warranty repair costs are staggering on turbocharged cars. The 05 SRT-4 cars with 230hp weighing 2800 pounds and costing under $25000 were real bargains, considering the technology and performance. But a car manufacturer has to make a living, and replacing every third turbo and a mountain of clutches and transmissions under warranty is not how you do it.
The SRT-4 and Eclipse forums are probably filled with lamenting, for they are orphans now, abandoned by their corporate parents.
I wish them well, though, particularly the SRT-4's. They were american muscle, and we can't have too much of that.
tripleblack
Mitsubishi is betting the farm on their new big-butt Eclipse with a v6, and shelving the turbo.
Dodge is putting the SRT-4 out to pasture completely, promising a "draft pick to be named later" to replace it. With the fact that their lineup is now stuffed full of cars available with Hemi V-8's, one suspects that they figured out pretty fast that the SRT-4 at best was just going to syphon sales away from the more expensive hemis...
Ford will sell no turbo cars in the US this year, and GM will offer only 1 Saab drivetrain with a turbo (down from a full lineup several years ago). Since Saab is really a euro maker, and not focused very well on the US market, this is logical. The euro makers will continue offering turbos forever, given that their home market sales are dominated by DIESELS (this is what happens when government and abusive gas taxes get involved in transportation). The best way to make a tiny diesel perform is via a turbo (big diesels like 'em too, of course).
Nissan has hitched its wagon to hot V6's and V8's, with a few offerings of small superchargers - no turbos.
Mazda is heartily mining its successful road-course inspired suspensions and free-revving V6's - and again, I saw no turbos.
I did not spend a great deal of time studying the Toyota lineup, since I find their car styling horrible, but I doubt they will be offering much in the way of turbocharging either.
Honda/Acura has moved away from turbocharging, and I believe they will now offer not a one to the US market. The huge number of aftermarket turbo installs on Civics and such will no doubt thrive, but you won't be buying cars with them new from the dealer.
This leaves Subaru, who has hung all of its performance hopes on turbochargers for decades, and shows no signs of changing. Keep in mind the relative high cost of Subaru's, and one can see how they plan to stay in business - which is not by selling $20,000 WRX's (but IS by selling $30,000 WRX's).
The future of factory pocket rockets with turbos (other than the offerings from the various euromobiles and Subaru) is a marketing idea that has run its course. Dodge appears to have discovered the non-news that warranty repair costs are staggering on turbocharged cars. The 05 SRT-4 cars with 230hp weighing 2800 pounds and costing under $25000 were real bargains, considering the technology and performance. But a car manufacturer has to make a living, and replacing every third turbo and a mountain of clutches and transmissions under warranty is not how you do it.
The SRT-4 and Eclipse forums are probably filled with lamenting, for they are orphans now, abandoned by their corporate parents.
I wish them well, though, particularly the SRT-4's. They were american muscle, and we can't have too much of that.
tripleblack
#2
07-24-2005, 06:57 AM
Well-written post. It's a surprise in the day of high fuel costs that soo many are getting rid of these things and going to larger displacement.
One thing, didn't Mistu dump the turbo on the Eclipse a few years ago when they wen with a V-6?
One thing, didn't Mistu dump the turbo on the Eclipse a few years ago when they wen with a V-6?
#3
07-24-2005, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!
One thing, didn't Mistu dump the turbo on the Eclipse a few years ago when they wen with a V-6?
#9
07-24-2005, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by SpringsStang
what about Evo's? im pretty sure they will keep their turbos
#10
07-25-2005, 04:38 AM
Mitsubishi has the Evo which is turbo.
Nearly all of Subaru has a turbo model
Mazda has the Mazdaspeed MX-5 Miata thats turbo
Soon to be released Mazda 6 thats turbo
And then the Mazdaspeed 3 will be turno
Turbo motors arguably get better mileage when not on the gas than a larger more cylinder engine.
There are rumors of a the new body style Sentra offering a turbo hi-po version. Also in 2007 the Skyline will be a twin turbo V6 and available in the states.
Chevy has the supercharged pocket rockets but no turbos. Same with the SRT-6 Crossfire its SC.
Nearly all of Subaru has a turbo model
Mazda has the Mazdaspeed MX-5 Miata thats turbo
Soon to be released Mazda 6 thats turbo
And then the Mazdaspeed 3 will be turno
Turbo motors arguably get better mileage when not on the gas than a larger more cylinder engine.
There are rumors of a the new body style Sentra offering a turbo hi-po version. Also in 2007 the Skyline will be a twin turbo V6 and available in the states.
Chevy has the supercharged pocket rockets but no turbos. Same with the SRT-6 Crossfire its SC.
#11
07-25-2005, 05:55 AM
Evo lution
Mitsubishi was questioned recently regarding rumors that they were thinking of changing their lineup, and immediately denied any plans of dropping the high performance, money-losing Evo from their US lineup.
Since the question had been intended to elicit comments about their new pickup truck, this was an interesting response...
Don't know how I missed the Miata turbo - it was right there in the middle of the Mazda article I was reading.
No mention of the Mazda 6 4 door in the article - though they are certainly real enough. Never trust a single source...
No doubt about it, we have to lump Mazda in with Subaru as committed to using turbos. Makes sense, really - unlike Nissan and Toyota, Mazda has no large V-8's or really hot V-6's, nor a captive luxury marque like Infiniti or Lexus to drive development of these motors. Neither does Subaru.
Speaking of Subaru, I saw my first new "Brat" suv/mini-pickup. Even uglier than the original.
tripleblack
Since the question had been intended to elicit comments about their new pickup truck, this was an interesting response...
Don't know how I missed the Miata turbo - it was right there in the middle of the Mazda article I was reading.
No mention of the Mazda 6 4 door in the article - though they are certainly real enough. Never trust a single source...
No doubt about it, we have to lump Mazda in with Subaru as committed to using turbos. Makes sense, really - unlike Nissan and Toyota, Mazda has no large V-8's or really hot V-6's, nor a captive luxury marque like Infiniti or Lexus to drive development of these motors. Neither does Subaru.
Speaking of Subaru, I saw my first new "Brat" suv/mini-pickup. Even uglier than the original.
tripleblack
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