it should be treated like one...guy knows he has an untreatable form of tb...so he takes 2 flights to get to canada and then drives into the usa....guy should be shot and sent back to his country in a cigar box...but he gets to complain about being quarantined?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/condi...ght/index.html

 

I saw another story like this on CNN yesterday as well. I guess there is a guy in Arizona that has a drug resistant strain of TB and was ordered by the Court to wear a mask in public along with some other things. Anyway, he didn't do it so they arrested him and now he's in isolation and could be there for years.

I'm not sure I'd go so far to say it was an act of terrorism.....I think terrorism has a lot to do with intent and it didn't sound like he was trying to infect a mass of people to kill them. I don't know, it's a fine line I guess.

I do think the word "terrorism" get's thrown around way too much since 9/11. Before 9/11 we wouldn't be on the internet calling this guy a terrorist. In my opinion anyway.

 

the guy knew he had an untreatable contagious disease...he snuck into our country via 2 planes and a car ride...he knew what he was doing...and everybody he came in contact with has got to be a lil upset

 

Oh I totally agree....something needs to be done about this guy. I was just saying that we throw the word terrorism around quite a bit and I don't even know what it means anymore.

 

true...i keep thinkin about if he made it onto a new york subway at rush hour and started coughin......if that had went unchecked for lets say a week...and then how many people would have to be quarantined? new york is a great city but it shuts down so quickly

 

Yeah, that's a scary thought. I wonder the same thing when I take BART (SF Bay's version of the subway). Honestly, I think stuff like this is our governments worst fears.

Ever seen that movie "Outbreak" with Dustin Hoffman, Rene Russo, and Morgan Freeman?

 

That sucks. TB is no joke, especially the untreatable kind. It use to scare the crap out of me when I had to deliver x-rays to the infectious disease clinic when I worked in a hospital down in Socal. I did think it was a little funny when the whole SARS scare went around and I remember seeing like every Asian in Diamond Bar (city in SoCal) wearing a face mask.

 

Wow...quick to jump on the terrorist bandwagon...I see you have really thought this one through *rolleyes*.

Yes, he got into the US and yes he had an infectious disease. I don't think his intention was to infect hundreds of thousands of people and kill off a large portion of the US with a drug resistant strain of TB. In order to call someone a Terrorist there has to be proof that this person intentionally targeted others in order to harm them.

Christ don't go throwing words like terrorist and terrorism around when its not what is going on at all. Choose your words wisely. This wasn't an act of terrorism. It was an illegal act by this guy to travel under circumstances that were dangerous to others, but it wasn't a terrorist out to bring down the system. He was stupid and disobedient, but that doesn't make him a terrorist.

Seriously, this is why we are in the quagmire we are in right now and why this administration has such a grip on this country. People label someone a terrorist or something an act of terrorism and everyone goes up in arms, giving this administration more excuses to crack down on personal liberties.

Oh, wait, I'm a political dissenter and I don't agree with this governments idea of safety. I don't really stand with what the country stands for right now...I guess I'm a terrorist too! Someone inform homeland security, I'm a terrorist! SOUND THE ALARM!!

 

you know what the difference is between a terrorist and a national hero....




















Victory! Just ask the fathers of our own country.

 

[QUOTE=Shambles;265709]

Seriously, this is why we are in the quagmire we are in right now and why this administration has such a grip on this country. People label someone a terrorist or something an act of terrorism and everyone goes up in arms, giving this administration more excuses to crack down on personal liberties.
QUOTE]

No kidding huh! The way the Patriot Act is written they can arrest you for farting and call it terrorism.

 

Wow, StreetRacer...this sure does sound like an Act of Terrorism here!

and!

and!

and!

I mean, do I really have to keep going on and on? Seriously, get the facts first before you label a groom traveling to and from his wedding a terrorist. Christ.

 

yeah...genius..and the 9-11 hijackers got on a plane with a sign that said.."we are terrorists"...oh thats right...they said they were here on student visas....naw...youre right shambles....he got caught and he had a good story....hes innocent as a newborn babe...you'd probably let binladen into the country if he told you he was here to go to disneyworld.....that guy is not facing prosecution?....boy are you simple....is he free to go? for that matter...noone in gitmo is facing prosecution either...hes not highly infectious?...why is he under quarantine?...maybe i'm right...maybe i'm wrong...but i'm speakin what i feel...sorry that i dont live in that rockwell painting anymore like you do in springfield pa...my world is lil more tense after 9-11

 

x2. Was just watchin part of the news conference. Everythings going to be ok.

 

huh? tell me I misunderstood that part and you're not completely retarded. Everyone in gitmo faces prosecution. Worse yet... they're being tried for capital crimes. They can hang them sumbitches or just disappear them if they want. I call that a prosecution.

Tell me I'm the retard and I misunderstood you.

 

I believe that was some sarcasm coming from streetracer, but I wouldn't put anything past him.

 

oops sorry...i guess youre a lil retarded too...some have been charged...some havent... i guess we should both read up a lil

 

good call

 

Wow...

You're how old?

You have a lot to learn about foreign policy and what is considered a threat and what isnt. Most of this has been blown out of proportion by the media with scary headlines.

Now a few points:

1) I don't live in any Normal Rockwell painting. I live in the burbs of Philly. I frequent downtown Philly constantly. Things here are just as liable to shut down as any other major city if something happened. I do keep my head up and stay on top of just about every news related item that has come my way relating to terrorism, Iraq, Bin Laden, Al-Quida, Iran, Homland Security, etc etc. The fact that you jump to conclusions this fast just shows me how gullible you are and that you believe what you are told. It also shows that you glaze over the headline and make your own conclusions, you dont actually read into the article to find the facts that make up the damn story.

2) Step off your high horse that I would let Bin Laden right into the country. Seriously. The fact that you would even question MY loyalty to a country because I disagree with what is being spun by both sides is absolutely absurd. I want Bin Laden caught as much as the next guy. You have right to be a total dick to me if I was walking around with a shirt that said "Go Al-Quida! Take us down quick!" but I'm not. How exactly you are making the incredibly fast jump from a man who made a bad decision to the man everyone wants to find infiltrating the US is beyond me. Thats quite a leap.

3) Many in Gitmo are, in my eyes, there being held unjustly against the Geneva convention. We seem to be taking a huge step backwards as we endorse forms of torture in order to extract information from prisoners. Some form of Civil Liberty is extended to those who are captured as POW. How we are treating the current prisoners in Gitmo is quite troubling according to the reports that have come out.

4) Read the story again. Hell, I'll even post up the key passages if you would like. Here are the facts that you seem to have completely missed in your analysis. I can tell critical reading was difficult for you in school, so hopefully this will bring a little light to your dim head.

- He knew he had TB before he boarded the plane, and his doctors advised him not to go. This doesn't mean he was under quarantine before he left the states. It means that he would be traveling against doctors orders. Doctors aren't, and damn well shouldn't, be reporting the health of their patients to law enforcement. They're under privacy laws not to disclose such information.

-When he was in Italy (remember, he was across the world at this time) the CDC determined he had a worse case of TB than originally thought. The CDC requested that he go and check himself into an Italian hospital to quarantine himself. This is when the US decided to revoke his Visa and Passport. Wanting the best care that he could get, and so he could feel comfortable, he and his new bride decided to fly into Canada, and then drive into New York so that he could get proper treatment. Was this the wisest thing? No, but to him it was logical. I probably would have done the same thing.

-The amount of bacteria that he would have expelled was VERY little. While a possible threat to other passengers, the chances of him actually infecting an entire plane, much less a single row of people, is HIGHLY unlikely. The CDC decided in taking care of this situation to , "err on the side of abundant caution."

-He is under quarantine for observation and treatment. Why his room is guarded is beyond me, as he isnt' a threat to anyone while getting treatment voluntarily, but thats beside the point.

You shouldn't be all crazy calling this guy a terrorist and this a possible terrorist act. The fact that you are so high strung after 9/11, even at a time where MOST of the rest of the country is calm, astounds me. Yes, national security is important, and this exposes a large flaw in the security system.
You shouldn't be focusing on the guy that flew back. Instead, you should be focusing on how exactly the system that is in place failed in the first place. This whole thing exposes a large gap in how information is passed on from place to place. US Border Patrol didn't even know about what was going on until the guy was over the Atlantic heading back to Montreal. The CDC and US Government didn't even realize that he was back on the way to North America until he was over the Atlantic Ocean. The man was on a no-fly list and he still was able to get past Italian security and into Canada. The lack of information sharing is what is disturbing about this whole scenario, not the fact that the guy actually made it to the continent.

Yes, the Border Patrol stopped him at the US-Canada border, which is a big step forward. It means that we can catch people provided the information is given to them in a timely manner.

9/11 occurred because of a lack of information sharing between multiple government departments. It was a complete intelligence failure that very well could have been prevented.

I suggest before you get back up on your high horse you go and read a few books such as the The 9/11 Commission Report and Against All Enemies. Then you can come back and talk.

 

me a dim head?

lmao...i highlighted a few of your sillier points...
lets see...
1. burbs of philly? my my arent we street smart..lol
2. finally you admit a glaring fact..theres alot thats beyond you apparently
3. ofcourse it astounds you farmboy...you werent there through any of the 5 noteworthy terrorist attacks in new york city like i was
4. is that why 9-11 happened ?...well get yourself to washington cause most of the folks there are still trying to figure that one out


i dont know whether to just declare you frighteningly naive or just plain.....hmm.....i didnt expect anyone to take such a stand on MY opinion...but i will say this...i didnt mean to jolt you into the ugly real world...rock a bye baby...go back to sleep... keep believing that a man who poses no threat at all is in custody with an armed guard outside his quarantined room...lol...oh yeah...you did admit that was beyond you...okay i'm done in this thread cause obviously a different view than your rosy outlook is genuinely painful for you and that wasnt my intent....go run the stairs like rocky and feel good about your world again, richie cunningham



jjtgiants, 00blackstanggt, thanks for the civil exchange of ideas.

 

lmao....i'm sorry i had to highlight this absolutely ridiculous statment again....and i'm surprised cause usually shambles is alot smarter than this statement suggests.... HIGHLY UNLIKELY??? i'll enlighten him a little....
This is an official
CDC HEALTH ADVISORY


Distributed via Health Alert Network
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, 0:40 EDT (12:40 PM EDT)
CDCHAN-00261-2007-05-29-ADV-N


Investigation of U.S. Traveler with Extensively Drug Resistant Tuberculosis (XDR TB)



The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is working with a number of international, state, and local partners on an investigation involving a U.S. citizen recently diagnosed with extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis (XDR TB). XDR TB has been recently defined as a subtype of multidrug-resistant tuberculosis (MDR TB) with additional resistance to the two most important second-line antibiotics (i.e., a fluoroquinolone and an injectable agent [amikacin, kanamycin, or capreomycin]) in addition to the two most important first-line drugs (i.e., isoniazid and rifampin).



CDC learned that a patient with XDR TB traveled to Europe via commercial airline (Air France # 385) departing Atlanta on May 12 and arriving in Paris on May 13, 2007, and returned to the United States after taking a commercial flight on May 24 from Prague, Czech Republic to Montreal, Canada (Czech Air # 410). The patient re-entered the U.S. on May 24 via automobile. Since May 25, the patient has been hospitalized in respiratory isolation and is undergoing additional medical evaluation.



CDC is collaborating with U.S. state and local health departments, international Ministries of Health, the airline industry, and the World Health Organization (WHO) regarding appropriate notification and follow up of passengers and crew potentially at risk for exposure to XDR TB. Each country involved in the investigation is determining the most appropriate guidance for its residents. The following recommendations have been developed for U.S. residents who may have been exposed to this patient.



This patient has radiographic evidence of pulmonary TB, is culture-positive for XDR TB, but is sputum smear negative for acid fast bacilli and is relatively asymptomatic. On the basis of the patient’s clinical and laboratory status, and lack of receiving adequate treatment for XDR TB, this patient was considered potentially infectious at the time of his airline travel, and meets the criteria in the WHO guidelines for initiating an airline contact investigation. http://whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/2006/WHO...06.363_eng.pdf

In accordance with the WHO TB and Airline Travel Guidelines, to ensure appropriate follow-up and care for persons who may have been exposed to XDR TB, CDC is recommending the following for passengers and crew onboard Air France # 385 departing Atlanta on May 12 and arriving in Paris on May 13, and on Czech Air # 410 departing from Prague and arriving in Montreal on May 24: passengers seated in the same row as the index patient and those seated in the two rows ahead and the two rows behind, as well as the cabin crew members working in the same cabin should be evaluated for TB infection. This includes initial evaluation and testing with follow up 8-10 weeks later for re-evaluation.

As there has never been an airline contact investigation for XDR TB, it is not known if the current recommendations are adequate to determine the possible range and risk of transmission of infection. Because of the serious consequences of XDR TB and anticipated public concern, in addition to the contacts listed above, all U.S. residents and citizens on these flights should be notified and encouraged to seek TB testing and evaluation.

Drug-susceptible (regular) TB and XDR TB are thought to be spread the same way. TB bacilli become aerosolized when a person with TB disease of the lungs or throat coughs, sneezes, speaks, or sings. These bacilli can float in the air for several hours, depending on the environment. Persons who breathe air containing these TB bacilli can become infected.



The risk of acquiring any type of TB appears to depend on several factors, such as extent of disease in the source patient, duration of exposure, and ventilation. Transmission has been documented in association with patients who have lung disease, and bacteria seen or cultured in sputum. Persons who become infected usually have been exposed for several hours (or days) in poorly ventilated or crowded environments. An important way to prevent the spread and transmission is by limiting an infectious person’s contact with other people. Thus, people who have a confirmed diagnosis of TB or XDR TB are placed on treatment and kept isolated until they are no longer infectious.



Persons who believe they may have been exposed to TB or XDR TB can call 1-800 CDC INFO for further information.

 

Way to read further down that paragraph...I see you are damn good at selective reading. Half my week is spent downtown these days, but alas, since I sometimes sleep in the burbs I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Once again, you missed the entire point of that paragraph too.

Since when was Philadelphia a farm? Much less, where is there major farmland 6 miles outside of the center of the city?

And Outstounds? WTF does that mean? Logical arguments begin with logical points and facts, not insults and generalizations. Grammar also helps to get your point across.

You haven't read the 9/11 report have you? I mean, that whole special committee thing that was assembled to figure out where the failures took place didn't have anything to do with anything. Must have just been a waste of tax dollars for politicians to have tea time.


Yes, well, when opinions are based on completely wrong facts and conclusions that have been jumped to on completely unfounded points I tend to try to correct people.

They arent pressing any charges on him. The armed guard is there for his security, not to keep him in custody.

Because this shows your maturity level in handling such an argument. Name calling, labeling, and stereotyping. Yeah, whoo, you sure put me in my place. Im just gonna go and cry myself to sleep too.

Yes, because you're being oh so civil to me. I guess when someone pushes back with a viewpoint that isnt your own and actually uses these AMAZING new inventions called FACTS and EVIDENCE its hard to be civil.

I will call you out right now...

If you want me to shut up please do the following:

Provide me with SOLID Facts from LEGITIMATE SOURCES backing up ALL of your previous statements. Drudge report isnt a legitimate source. The AP Newswires, Those things with pages in them called books published by people who know what they are talking about, government reports, and the like are all acceptable forms of legitimate sources.

Please organize said facts in a logical and coherent argument to refute all that I have said here.

Remember, an opinion isn't a fact!

Otherwise:



Ball's in your court. I'll be waiting.

Edit:

In replying to the post you shot up right before I shot mine up...

This is from your newswire article that you shot up from the first post...

"The patient himself was not highly infectious" but there still was a small risk he could transmit the disease to someone else, Gerberding told CNN.

AND

"Newer-model planes use HEPA filters that are able to trap the long, rod-shaped tuberculosis bacilli, according to the CDC."

 

didnt say philly was a farm...said you were a farmboy...thats your mentality...as for proof or facts...i already provided you with it...youre just too dumb to understand it


"The armed guard is there for his security, not to keep him in custody."



the above statement proves how incredibly naive you are...i guess the guy is free to go catch a movie while he waits for his doctor to give him an update...actually....i'm glad you wrote something that dumb...it just shows me that i'm wasting my time trying to get a point across to a completely simple mind like yours....goodnight lennie small, i'll see if i cant find you a puppy to hug

 

N...No...you have provided me with no facts whatsoever on any of your points.

He is voluntarily getting treated, he isn't trying to escape. The guard is there for his protection as well as the protection of the hospital staff keeping people who don't need to be in there out. He knows he cant leave because he needs treatment. I don't get how you think the guards are there to keep him from leaving. He doesnt want to leave. He wants to get treatment. See previous sentence as to why guards are there.

I'm not too sure how I'm a farmboy either...as I have been using evidence and facts from legit sources to back up my claims...all you have been doing is name calling.

And Yet, my challenge still stands. You have yet to prove to me with credible evidence how any of your statements are true, pertaining to 9/11, Gitmo, and the topic at hand. A CDC press bulletin doesn't show anything as far as new facts and evidence to back up your claim. The date on the bulletin was a day before the current interviews occurred. All you did was basically state the obvious, and I have since corrected you with new and up to date information from the CDC and other sources.

 

lmao.....farmboy is such a simp........you know what folks?....farmboy aside...i'm gonna explain my view on this...let me start with the definition of bioterrorism:

What is Bioterrorism?
For educational purposes, "bioterrorism" may be defined as follows:

"Bioterrorism" is defined as the intentional use by anyone of bacteria, viruses or other organic substances against civilians, whether directly or indirectly, for the purpose of inciting public fear and resource demand in order to influence public policy decisions.



IF a middle eastern guy snuck into our country from pakistan infected with a drug resistant contagious disease and was caught...you can bet your bottom dollar this story would be bigger...fact of the matter is....we dont know what was in this guys head...and we never will... but the fact is he snuck into our country knowing he was carrying a drug resistant contagious disease after being put on the nofly list by the government...can it be considered terrorism? sure it can...it all comes down to intent...we already know he intended to sneak into our country with no regard for the people he came in contact with...the terrorism label sticks if we can prove he intended to actually infect people with the disease...we'll never know this for sure...so why the farmboy gets on his high horse and declares it out of the realm of possibilty is beyond me...i've said many times im not perfect...i damn sure dont know it all, but anyway, thats why i have the opinion i have


thanks for your time in this thread

tommy


ps i hear the guys honkin outside so its time to roll out the stang, join the crew and go do that fast and furious thing

 

Mucho headbashing occurs here...

I'm not classing such a scenario out of the realm of possibility. Not once have I ever said that.

You have your facts mixed up on even more points.

1) Most People would argue that Pakistan, all be it in Asia, is NOT in the middle east. While it does have lots of mountainous terrain and does border Afghanistan, chances are most terrorists will not be coming from Pakistan. They have their own issues w/ India right now over Kashmir.

2) We do know what was going through that guys head...he TOLD us in interviews w/ the AP!

3) In no way, shape, or form was this guy intentionally trying to infect people w/ a disease. He was trying to get home so that he could get treatment for his condition.

4) You didn't even read your god damn definition!!

"Bioterrorism" is defined as the intentional use by anyone of bacteria, viruses or other organic substances against civilians, whether directly or indirectly, for the purpose of inciting public fear and resource demand in order to influence public policy decisions.

Where were his demands? Last I checked he just wanted treatment.

Seriously dude. Prove me wrong. You still have yet to use any logic or any kind of evidence or proof to back up any of your arguments. A definition of bioterrorism isn;t fact or evidence. It just shows you can use a dictionary!

 

Yes, you have been very civil.

 

heres the words i was answering, codiddy...if youre going to speak on it...speak on all of it bro...i'm as civil as a guy is to me

 

Except, those were observations that I gathered from your own posts. Lets not even mention that I am well known around here for knowing what the **** I'm talking about and not hesitating to back things up with a few verbal jabs. Frankly, if you're posting ideas that have no common theme and no backbone to them, yes, I will not hesitate to call you an idiot. However, I at least back up my facts...you don't.

Also, I didn't resort to any name calling, I made general observations...something quite different. You calling me a farm boy has absolutely nothing to do w/ any of my posts. Not to mention calling me farm boy in four consecutive posts by you is not only quite dull, but also quite unoriginal. I've been quite civil in my remarks towards you.

Come to think of it...the only insult was the "light to your dim head," and even then thats pretty moderate from some of the other true insults I've pulled out on other people. All of my other observations that I have made, regarding your attitude and so forth unfortunately, for you, inherent to be seen in all of your posts.

I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong...so far you have tried to change the subject to no avail.

Since I have a picture theme to close every post..I think this one is appropriate!

 

havent tried to change any subject...youre just too thick for me to get through to....and frankly not worth it...but hey ...at least you have clever pictures..so youre not a total waste...farmboy ....have a goodnight all

 

You didn't really just mention Fast and The Furious and driving your stang in the same sentence did you? Ashamed.

Anyways, this thing turned into a damn long essay. to much for my attention span at the moment. Keep arguing though, it makes my day go by faster.