Illegal federal income taxation?
#1
11-26-2006 | 06:18 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Illegal federal income taxation?
I dunno, i always take this stuff with a grain of salt, but it is amazing when the IRS commisioner cant even provide evidence of any laws requiring federal income tax....
apparently, the income tax just disappears, isnt used for roads, schools, etc...
i was skeptical at first, but watching this really makes you wonder.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+fascism&hl=en
apparently, the income tax just disappears, isnt used for roads, schools, etc...
i was skeptical at first, but watching this really makes you wonder.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+fascism&hl=en
#2
11-26-2006 | 08:54 PM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 544
From: OH
Many of the taxes we pay don't have a law that says we have to pay them. The problem is that the money has to come from somewhere, and income taxes are most appropriate in certain situations because if we were to put a flat rate tax down, people with a lower income may not be able to afford it, and people with higher incomes may barely even notice that there being taxed.
I'm against minors being taxed. We don't benifit from many of the things our taxes go to, and we can't even vote for the people that will go into congress and cut or add taxes that we think need to be cut or added.
I'm against minors being taxed. We don't benifit from many of the things our taxes go to, and we can't even vote for the people that will go into congress and cut or add taxes that we think need to be cut or added.
#3
11-26-2006 | 09:05 PM
Administrator
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,613
Many of the taxes we pay don't have a law that says we have to pay them. The problem is that the money has to come from somewhere, and income taxes are most appropriate in certain situations because if we were to put a flat rate tax down, people with a lower income may not be able to afford it, and people with higher incomes may barely even notice that there being taxed.
I'm against minors being taxed. We don't benifit from many of the things our taxes go to, and we can't even vote for the people that will go into congress and cut or add taxes that we think need to be cut or added.
I'm against minors being taxed. We don't benifit from many of the things our taxes go to, and we can't even vote for the people that will go into congress and cut or add taxes that we think need to be cut or added.
Anyone remember why we through the tea into the Boston harbor?
"No Taxation w/o representation." It is amazing to me that after 200+ years, we still have not learned anything.
The pont of income taxes being illegal is nothing new. I remember having this discussion in HS over 20 years ago.
BTW, you DO benefit from paying taxes even if you are just a kid, that was an incorrect statement, but your comment about not being able to vote is very valid.
#5
11-26-2006 | 09:18 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Water Dr. Dunno if you watched the whole thing or not, but it is definatly innerving.
First off, we have the IRS stating that the SUPREME COURT is irrelevant. The IRS and Federal reserve are such powerful bullys that congress wont do **** about them. They dont have to follow laws and they can prosecute people and imprison them when there is no "LAW" that they have broken.
Hell, Even the supreme court says that federal income tax is unconstitutional.
Nobody can show where the federal income taxes go. All the roads are done by gas tax, schools by state tax, the entire military budget is covered by federal income taxation of BUSINESSES, not individual people. there are taxes for everything. The only thing i can think of that Federal Taxes go are to cover INTEREST caused by the debts that the government makes after it sets its money in the federal reserve with private bankers rather than holding it in the government where they DONT have to pay interest. Before 1913 there was no federal income tax. and it just goes into the pockets of bankers, not on things we would expect.
Its absolutly amazing.
The whole place they go with this video is downright scary.
First off, we have the IRS stating that the SUPREME COURT is irrelevant. The IRS and Federal reserve are such powerful bullys that congress wont do **** about them. They dont have to follow laws and they can prosecute people and imprison them when there is no "LAW" that they have broken.
Hell, Even the supreme court says that federal income tax is unconstitutional.
Nobody can show where the federal income taxes go. All the roads are done by gas tax, schools by state tax, the entire military budget is covered by federal income taxation of BUSINESSES, not individual people. there are taxes for everything. The only thing i can think of that Federal Taxes go are to cover INTEREST caused by the debts that the government makes after it sets its money in the federal reserve with private bankers rather than holding it in the government where they DONT have to pay interest. Before 1913 there was no federal income tax. and it just goes into the pockets of bankers, not on things we would expect.
Its absolutly amazing.
The whole place they go with this video is downright scary.
#6
11-26-2006 | 09:20 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
I say shut down the IRS, shut down the federal reserve, give the money back to the government, and then put up a national sales tax where you are simply taxed on whatever you buy. Rich people pay more cause they buy more. Poor people can afford less, so they pay less.
All in all, you are taxed on your lifestyle which is dictated by your purchases.
No loop holes, no tax evasion, no state tax, property tax, federal income tax, medicade tax, any of that.
Straight up national sales tax.
It is fair for everybody.
All in all, you are taxed on your lifestyle which is dictated by your purchases.
No loop holes, no tax evasion, no state tax, property tax, federal income tax, medicade tax, any of that.
Straight up national sales tax.
It is fair for everybody.
#7
11-26-2006 | 09:22 PM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 544
From: OH
Anyone remember why we through the tea into the Boston harbor?
"No Taxation w/o representation." It is amazing to me that after 200+ years, we still have not learned anything.
The pont of income taxes being illegal is nothing new. I remember having this discussion in HS over 20 years ago.
BTW, you DO benefit from paying taxes even if you are just a kid, that was an incorrect statement, but your comment about not being able to vote is very valid.
"No Taxation w/o representation." It is amazing to me that after 200+ years, we still have not learned anything.
The pont of income taxes being illegal is nothing new. I remember having this discussion in HS over 20 years ago.
BTW, you DO benefit from paying taxes even if you are just a kid, that was an incorrect statement, but your comment about not being able to vote is very valid.
#8
11-26-2006 | 09:25 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
I said many, not all. I know that minors also benefit from income taxes, but it ties in with the whole voting issue. What if I don't want to pay taxes to help fix freeways because my parents won't let me get my license? It's obvious hypothetical because I do drive and don't mind paying that kind of tax, but for some people they have situations like that. I'm sure there are more but that was just the first thing that came to mind, being much of what I think about is cars.
#9
11-26-2006 | 09:26 PM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 544
From: OH
I say shut down the IRS, shut down the federal reserve, give the money back to the government, and then put up a national sales tax where you are simply taxed on whatever you buy. Rich people pay more cause they buy more. Poor people can afford less, so they pay less.
All in all, you are taxed on your lifestyle which is dictated by your purchases.
No loop holes, no tax evasion, no state tax, property tax, federal income tax, medicade tax, any of that.
Straight up national sales tax.
It is fair for everybody.
All in all, you are taxed on your lifestyle which is dictated by your purchases.
No loop holes, no tax evasion, no state tax, property tax, federal income tax, medicade tax, any of that.
Straight up national sales tax.
It is fair for everybody.
And as far as the IRS goes, they can all go to hell.
#10
11-26-2006 | 09:59 PM
Administrator
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,613
I did not see thew whole thing yet, but I have watched similar reports.
I have been a proponent of a federal sales tax for years.
Did you know that the IRS employs 100,000 people? Yet, 85 million people fail each year to ever pay taxes because they have never registered. The IRS is essentially a dysfunctional organization. I wonder what part of our taxes just go to pay for a broken system.
I have been a proponent of a federal sales tax for years.
Did you know that the IRS employs 100,000 people? Yet, 85 million people fail each year to ever pay taxes because they have never registered. The IRS is essentially a dysfunctional organization. I wonder what part of our taxes just go to pay for a broken system.
#14
11-27-2006 | 07:37 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,095
From: Ft Wayne, IN
Sucks but I will still be paying my taxes, because fairly or not I would rather write my large checks every quarter to uncle sam than be in jail. Because legal or not tax evasion is being punished as illegal.
#16
11-27-2006 | 10:55 AM
Wowbagger hates me too!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9,865
From: Magrathea/California
The modern tax system is a relic and doesn't begin to address the more financially sophisticated people that have figured out how to hide income (mostly through purchases... strange that). I agree that the IRS is an illegal organization. I find it odd that the presence of war on the horizon or at the doorstep has only ever caused people to allow government to infringe upon personal freedoms and levy new and greater taxes to pay for them. The personal income tax was put in place to pay for <cmon guess> ... yep, war. It was left in place to finish paying for the war (and veterans were shot for protesting when they wanted their service bonuses early, that's justice). It was left in place after that because the congress allowed a military industrial complex to run amoc unfettered by needless regulation. The super rich saw the government as a source of riches beyond the dreams of Avarice. All they had to do was keep the government buying until the income tax was ingrained into our daily lives and not noticed so the populace could pay in perpetuity for the extravagances of the early barons of industry.
In our current generation we know of no life without hidden taxes in every corner and we pay them happily; if unknowingly in most cases, to fund... yep, the extravagant lifestyles of barons of industry and; of course, war.
What everyone wants is a world full of fabulously paved roads with no speed limits, lined with mom & pop shops filled with every variety of product from everywhere in the world, at a pittance of cost. No giant corporations, no behemoth governmental agencies stacked one atop the next, no taxing you to pay for a service you don't use. Problem is, the very concept is an oxymoron. You can't have that sort of world without the enormous infrastructure that is required by and built by the industrial giants and tax happy government that built the roads and banned the speed limits. One begets the other.
In our current generation we know of no life without hidden taxes in every corner and we pay them happily; if unknowingly in most cases, to fund... yep, the extravagant lifestyles of barons of industry and; of course, war.
What everyone wants is a world full of fabulously paved roads with no speed limits, lined with mom & pop shops filled with every variety of product from everywhere in the world, at a pittance of cost. No giant corporations, no behemoth governmental agencies stacked one atop the next, no taxing you to pay for a service you don't use. Problem is, the very concept is an oxymoron. You can't have that sort of world without the enormous infrastructure that is required by and built by the industrial giants and tax happy government that built the roads and banned the speed limits. One begets the other.
#17
11-27-2006 | 12:14 PM
Traitor...lol
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,939
From: Lexington, SC
The modern tax system is a relic and doesn't begin to address the more financially sophisticated people that have figured out how to hide income (mostly through purchases... strange that). I agree that the IRS is an illegal organization. I find it odd that the presence of war on the horizon or at the doorstep has only ever caused people to allow government to infringe upon personal freedoms and levy new and greater taxes to pay for them. The personal income tax was put in place to pay for <cmon guess> ... yep, war. It was left in place to finish paying for the war (and veterans were shot for protesting when they wanted their service bonuses early, that's justice). It was left in place after that because the congress allowed a military industrial complex to run amoc unfettered by needless regulation. The super rich saw the government as a source of riches beyond the dreams of Avarice. All they had to do was keep the government buying until the income tax was ingrained into our daily lives and not noticed so the populace could pay in perpetuity for the extravagances of the early barons of industry.
In our current generation we know of no life without hidden taxes in every corner and we pay them happily; if unknowingly in most cases, to fund... yep, the extravagant lifestyles of barons of industry and; of course, war.
What everyone wants is a world full of fabulously paved roads with no speed limits, lined with mom & pop shops filled with every variety of product from everywhere in the world, at a pittance of cost. No giant corporations, no behemoth governmental agencies stacked one atop the next, no taxing you to pay for a service you don't use. Problem is, the very concept is an oxymoron. You can't have that sort of world without the enormous infrastructure that is required by and built by the industrial giants and tax happy government that built the roads and banned the speed limits. One begets the other.
In our current generation we know of no life without hidden taxes in every corner and we pay them happily; if unknowingly in most cases, to fund... yep, the extravagant lifestyles of barons of industry and; of course, war.
What everyone wants is a world full of fabulously paved roads with no speed limits, lined with mom & pop shops filled with every variety of product from everywhere in the world, at a pittance of cost. No giant corporations, no behemoth governmental agencies stacked one atop the next, no taxing you to pay for a service you don't use. Problem is, the very concept is an oxymoron. You can't have that sort of world without the enormous infrastructure that is required by and built by the industrial giants and tax happy government that built the roads and banned the speed limits. One begets the other.
#22
11-27-2006 | 05:04 PM
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,684
From: Carthage, Missouri
Guy's I've been pissed about this for year's.
Check this out.....
http://www.givemeliberty.org/rtplaws...etterToIRS.htm
Check this out.....
http://www.givemeliberty.org/rtplaws...etterToIRS.htm
#24
11-28-2006 | 02:47 PM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 544
From: OH
That's because our economy is run using fiat money. It's a type of currency that is valuable just because the government says it is.
#25
12-12-2006 | 06:59 PM
blank
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,451
From: North Jersey
This is why the Fair Tax makes sence. Placing a federal sales taxes of 20% provides for the same price of goods however, the government can get even more cash since more people are paying into the "system" (such as hookers, the mafia, drug lords, etc.). In addition, the government saves cash by getting rid of the IRS and employing less people to collect taxes and enforcing them. So in essence, when implimented, that 20% could be lowered allowing the price of goods to drop. That helps us even more since when the price of goods drop, demand goes up and companies can expand. Once that happens, we can tell China to take their monopolies and go screw themselves. Too bad we need a ton of farms making corn to tell that to the Middle East...
#27
12-12-2006 | 07:12 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is why the Fair Tax makes sence. Placing a federal sales taxes of 20% provides for the same price of goods however, the government can get even more cash since more people are paying into the "system" (such as hookers, the mafia, drug lords, etc.). In addition, the government saves cash by getting rid of the IRS and employing less people to collect taxes and enforcing them. So in essence, when implimented, that 20% could be lowered allowing the price of goods to drop. That helps us even more since when the price of goods drop, demand goes up and companies can expand. Once that happens, we can tell China to take their monopolies and go screw themselves. Too bad we need a ton of farms making corn to tell that to the Middle East...
im not familiar with the fair tax, is that the same as a National Sales Tax? where the only taxes you pay are on what you buy, so you are taxed according to lifestyle rather than income?
#28
12-13-2006 | 01:36 AM
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21
I didn't watch the video. I don't have an hour of free time to watch it. And those of you who do and complain about taxes should spend more time working on your finances instead of wasting time.
The Federal Govenment is huge and supports us in ways we do not even begin to think about.
Here's a quick list off the top of my head of what our Federal Government does for us:
Federal Aviation Administration - Without them we have no air travel.
Federal Communications Commission - Without them we would be getting screwed on our phone bills.
Federal Highway Administration - Not all of our roads are maintained by cities and states. Imagine the US with our freeways.
Food & Drug Administration - They keep our food safe.
NASA - Laugh, but most of the things we have today we have because we went into space and learned how to create things better. The micochips used in our computers and cell phones come to mind.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission - My god, could you imagine running nuclear plants with our local city governments in charge of them?
U.S. Forest Service - Um, I was told today that 40% of California is owned by the Federal Government. I guess these guys aren't important; I mean, We can just all stand by and watch it burn the next time fire season rolls around.
Yeah, I used to complain too. Until one day I discovered that my boss got back more in taxes than I made that year. That's when it hit me. I was reporting what I made each year and then paying taxes on it. Wrong way to do it. Now I write everything off. All of the interest I pay on my two houses is a write off. I also have a small business, a consulting firm, and every time I take a trip I meet with my clients - and write that off. It's a beautiful system; The rich get richer because they know how and the poor stay poor.
I would like to see us go to a flat tax system. Tax the daylights out of business with huge profits, and tax the people that make a lot of money (over $200k). Anyone making less than $60k a year should not be taxed. No expcetions, no child care credits or write offs. That would change a lot.
The Federal Govenment is huge and supports us in ways we do not even begin to think about.
Here's a quick list off the top of my head of what our Federal Government does for us:
Federal Aviation Administration - Without them we have no air travel.
Federal Communications Commission - Without them we would be getting screwed on our phone bills.
Federal Highway Administration - Not all of our roads are maintained by cities and states. Imagine the US with our freeways.
Food & Drug Administration - They keep our food safe.
NASA - Laugh, but most of the things we have today we have because we went into space and learned how to create things better. The micochips used in our computers and cell phones come to mind.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission - My god, could you imagine running nuclear plants with our local city governments in charge of them?
U.S. Forest Service - Um, I was told today that 40% of California is owned by the Federal Government. I guess these guys aren't important; I mean, We can just all stand by and watch it burn the next time fire season rolls around.
Yeah, I used to complain too. Until one day I discovered that my boss got back more in taxes than I made that year. That's when it hit me. I was reporting what I made each year and then paying taxes on it. Wrong way to do it. Now I write everything off. All of the interest I pay on my two houses is a write off. I also have a small business, a consulting firm, and every time I take a trip I meet with my clients - and write that off. It's a beautiful system; The rich get richer because they know how and the poor stay poor.
I would like to see us go to a flat tax system. Tax the daylights out of business with huge profits, and tax the people that make a lot of money (over $200k). Anyone making less than $60k a year should not be taxed. No expcetions, no child care credits or write offs. That would change a lot.
#29
12-13-2006 | 04:19 AM
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 74
We can all agree on that it isn't fair but actions speak louder then words. 
This system wasn't just implemented over night. Americans have been living and being penny pinched by it forever. It seems the country as a whole is perfectly fine with it since nothing is being done about it though. Am I correct in that statement or has something gone over my head?
This system wasn't just implemented over night. Americans have been living and being penny pinched by it forever. It seems the country as a whole is perfectly fine with it since nothing is being done about it though. Am I correct in that statement or has something gone over my head?
#30
12-13-2006 | 08:30 AM
blank
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,451
From: North Jersey
http://www.fairtax.org/