Thats the problem with you, all you see is black and white, when the world is actually all sorts of colors, that is why you dont understand.

luckily there are enough people who can see that there are various grey areas that allow the population a way to prevent the dumpster babys, the incest children, and all the young mothers from being on welfare so they can hopefully learn from thier mistake and later in life when they are more mature and competant have a baby and also provide it a halfway decent life.

Im sorry, but you Pro-lifer extremists are wrong, you can sit and be crybabys(LOL) all you want but there are enough people who live in the real world instead of a fantasy land where everything should be all good and swell.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-life, but hell, in order for pro-life to really work there cannot be all these different situations.

unfortunatly the world is gritty enough and filled with enough bad people and bad situations where flexability is not only needed but required.

Let me throw out a little color since i have seen so many Pro-lifers put out scenarios.
Ok greg You get married, your wife gets pregnant, she gets in a wreck, is in a an induced coma because of trama she has recieved, they can save her or the baby, The decision is yours. Seeing on how you have the decision, if you chose to keep the baby would it be murdering your wife? or if you keep your wife would you be murdering your baby? If you dont make a decision they BOTH die

you dont have to answer that. But THAT is life. ****ed up places, ****ed up situations, ****ed up circumstances. You can NOT neatly pile everything into 2 different groups, im sorry, if you believe you can yer in a goddamn fantasy land.

 

Ya know this is what REALLY blows my mind.

There are varying degrees of pro-lifers out there, but you hardcore pro-lifers amaze me.

You dont care if it ruins the mothers life, if it scars her for life to have the baby only to give it up for adoption.

You dont care if it kills the mother.

You dont care if the baby ends up dead in a dumpster

You dont care if 25% of 16 year old girls have a kid, cant afford college and end up being poor because they were never able to make something of themselves and thier babys grow up in crappy areas and become criminals. While if they are allowed the option for abortion tey could have had a baby later in life and given it all the advantages the baby deserves.

You dont care that a girl gets pregnant and puts it up for adoption, only to find out 10 years down the road that the birth at a young age left her barren. And now she can never have a baby.

You dont care that people pop kids out as fast as they take a **** so they can collect more on wellfare.

Your dont care that a family will have to deal with the shame of a child born out of incest because of a sick and twisted rape. And be reminded of it Day after Day after Day as they have to take care of this kid.

You dont care that a girl might go crazy and end up killing herself because every time she sees her baby she sees her rapists likeness.

All you care about is black and white.

Personally i really dont haave a lot of respect for the entire Moral Highhorse of extreme Pro-Lifers.


What is STAGGERING is how may Pro-Lifers support the War in Iraq, the Killing of terrorists, and the death penalty.

The only difference between Modern men, and men 100,000 years ago when it comes to abortion is we terminaate the pregnancy, while they used to smother the infant.

This isnt new.

it sucks, but hey, sometimes people are better off.

 

Killing is wrogn. Plain and simple.
Somebody has a knife, they want to stab you. You have a gun.

you gonna feel bad about shooting him?

So, if you dont make a decision, you will allow both the wife and the kid to die?

i doubt it.

Yer gonna feel good about shooting the person.

Yer gonna make a decision at the hospital, i dont care how much you deny it.


2 wrongs dont make a right.

Yes. it is wrong to expect a 16 year old girl to have a baby
It is wrong to force somebody to have a baby out of incest
it is wrong to to force somebody to have a baby out of rape.

once again, majority of america has spoken on this. and have made thier choice

------------------
If killing the unborn baby is where the line is... then why not move the line else where...
how bout a year old and you want to kill it then OK?
Or the 5 year old...
Why I suppose a 20 year old is fair game...?
------------------

Wow! Greg! so quick to jump to the drastic ALL OR NONE. Dont you have any real arguement left in you or are you just gonna throw everything to extremes?
Cause that was a pretty pathetic responce!


(you know i dont mean any of this personaly greg, get me in a debate like this and i really get into it. So if anything comes across as insulting take it with a grain of salt)

 

you got that right.

 

lol... im far from liberal, im all about guns and human rights and crap. Just cause im pro choice dont lump me in with a certain political belief or group, i agree and disagree with both liverals and conservatives.

Whats wrong with a scenario? They are realiztic situations that must be taken into account.
God heaven forbid everything not be cut and dry! Oh no! There actually might be CIRCUMSTANCES that you diddnt forsee?

the fact is this, you dont care about anything but one principle, NO ABORTION, you dont want to hear scenarios because there are many times where a baby aint the best idea and termination of the pregnancy is the best option. For the mother, or for the family as a whole.

If you dont like hearing the countless scenarios that could come up, well, hell, maybe you oughtta think a little bit about being so cast-iron black and white.

This blind demand that abortion in all cases must be stopped is sheer ignorance, you dont even WANT to know of possible scenarios where it is a good idea.

Im not dancing around the issue, im bringing up relavant situations where the extreme pro-life situation can cause a lot more harm than good. Dont get mad at me because i bring up situations that you dont like, unfortunatly that is life, full of crappy situations.


Oh yeah, and of course RAPE is a violent and horrible thing that could permamantly scar the mother. So bad in fact that why NOT make her carry her attackers child? lol..... why not make it worse? LOL! Things aint bad enough are they?
Lets just bring her misery out 9 months with a painful labor that might result in her being barren or possible dead, then stick her with a child, or see how many people are eager to adopt an incestial rape baby.

without examining each situation as its own individual issue then no progress can ever be made, you lump everything together and dont care about the consequences either way.

i dont see how that is constructive, i dont see how that helps the situation, i dont see how that does anything but cast blind blame and make things worse.

Here is the great thing, most people agree that you can NOT lump everything into a right or wrong situation, there are always the times where one must choose between the 2 evils. Right and Wrong is not absolute. Sometimes there is NO "Right" just "which wrong do i choose" and that is a personaly choice, not one for you to make for somebody else.

Its a good thing most other people see that.

And it is a shame there are so many people who refuse to delve any deeper into the issue and just take an ignorant one sided stand against something without exploring the other end of the spectrum, and will gladly blindly tell other people how they should handle thier problems without ever caring enough to look at the situation as a whole.

Do i think abortion is a good thing? No... nasty business if you ask me. Bu sometimes it is not only warranted, but needed.

 

I consider it a baby when it survive by itself out of the womb with a high probably success. Untill then i personally consider it simply a pregnancy, a process, which if allowed to continue has a very good chance of creating a baby.

However, i think that abortion should be 100% illegal after the first trimester, unless of continuation of the pregnancy poses a significant risk to the life of the mother.

In cases or rape, incest, etc etc, chances are they will have taken action before the first trimester. If they wait any longer, they forgo thier option and are stuck with it.
In cases where the mother does not know she is pregnant untill after the first trimester, well, too bad, she is having a baby. there are plenty of warning signs that occurr and if she hasnt paid attention to them she loses her opportunity to take action.

It is good to have people like you and DrWater on one side of the fence and people like me on the other side. It sets a balance, it opens discussion, and allows people to come to thier own decision about the matter.

I just dont believe something as sensitive as this can simple be disallowed. too many circumstances surrounding each and every pregnancy to throw a complete BAN across it. I believe in having options.

Its good to have Pro-life though as well, you dont want people becoming so desensitized that they just have abortions all the live long day.


So whats yer take on the morning after pill? Is that still abortion? It can be taken up to 5 days after conception.

you can now buy it at walmart.....

as far as other birth control, i had a girl who was on DEPO, wrecked her all up, she had tons of problems. Many women cannot take tricycline (one a day pill), many women have various allergies to condoms, spermacides, etc. You have the IUD, however that also poses many possible health risks.

the morning after pill has none of those issues.

now, if it came in mint, you could also eliminate her morning breath

 

read up on what i asked about the morning after pill.... im curious to your take on that

 

LOL... naa, i think once it is out it is a baby weather or not it needs life support.
Kinda like how i dont consider Bin Laden a fetus even though he needs a dialasys machine to live!

 

LMAO!

Wow, if yer going to get immature and start telling people to grow up for disagreeing with you that is your perrogative.

I dont have to agree with you and i wont agree with you, i think your point of view is very stubborn and i think your lack of interest in looking any further to the subject is disappointing and promotes ignorance.

Welp, when it came to the polls and voting, more people disagreed with you than agreed with you. Personally, i think that is a good thing.

Go ahead and lump everything into black&white, right&wrong. Thats all you buddy, but that doesent make you right. Take a whiff of the coffee, things are in various shades of grey. Very Very seldom are they "black and white" no matter how much you want them to be.


Well, lemme say this one more time, I DONT AGREE WITH ANYTHING YOU HAVE SAID, i think your intolerance and lack of ability to rationally look at things by a case by case basis is rediculous.

if that offends you, that is YOUR problem, NOT mine.

I can have my own opinion on this, my own feelings, and my own ideas, weather you like it or not.

 

Opinions? How about obsessions? Good god i can almost hear you pounding the keys from colorado and spitting foam all over the keyboard.

Hell, i wouldnt want my girl bringing up the baby of somebody who attacked her. She dont want it, i dont want it, get rid of it.

I certainly wouldnt sit there and try to FORCE her to keep the baby. Personally i think that is just sick.

As far as arguement?

I Havent seen an arguement out of you yet, just sitting there getting angry at people bringing up various scenarios that happen every sticking day in this country, claiming they have no relevance, demanding that everyone listen to your rediculous rants of morality and such and feeling justified in your demands that raped women bring thier attackers children to this world.

rediculous.

You have no arguement, just demands.

Anyways, im done in this thread, it is clear certain people cannot handle debate without getting all bend out of shape. And personally i like you Dr. Water.

So i would rather just let this end now and get back to mustangs.

 

lol.... naa... i just dont much appreciate being told to grow up and stuff like that cause i dont agree with somone. but im gonna leave it at that cause i like Dr. Water and we have opposing beliefs and thats cool. I like the guy, I think it is time i chilled out on thie thread, i said my parts and all so... ya'll know how i feel... its just debate.

and yer a jerkface.

lol

 

True.
True.......

 

DING DING DING we have a winner! Close this crap. No-one is going to "WIN" because none of you have the final say.. Period, done, call it a day...