Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

I'll give you chains, sprockets, guides, and arms for 65+shipping.

Originally Posted by Morgan The Black

The rod bearings I'm talking about are the same H-series Clevites,
in their words...


I can see your point and correct me if I'm wrong but even if some of the oil slings out, it would still be supplied faster than it could go. Assuming the tolerances were reasonably tight, maybe a high volume oil pump. The main reason I was considering them was in case there was an oil supply problem, buy alittle more time, so to speak. Honestly I dont know how much good it would do in that case, and on a good day I doubt they'd make any difference at all. I guess it comes down to cost vs. benefit. While we're on the subject how do you feel about thermal barrier coatings on pistons?

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

the only thing i considered over standard bearings was the harder ones then stock. they are alittle stronger for flogging the motor. as for coatings, i like them on the pistons but not on the bearings.

Originally Posted by Blitzmann

I need 5.4 2v adapter plates. Like usual Reichard Racing does not have product in stock. Can't get supercharger pulleys in any size we need and they won't have adapter plates for a couple of months. Anybody have a set they aren't using?

Originally Posted by singlesupra

I got a set I got from the originator of the adapter plates. Just posted like a page back or so, turbox2 or something like that. They are brand new and I havnt used them. $200 shipped for them instead of the regular reichard racing price of $399. Half price, lemme know

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

these are alittle more basic design if they look like mine from turboX2.....

Originally Posted by Blitzmann

Same design and everything as the Reichard plates?

Originally Posted by Blitzman

But they will work fine correct? I'm really waiting on the HPS intake. Just need something to tide me over.

Originally Posted by singlesupra

Same basic design but IMO are of MUCH better quality, thats just looking at them however.



Ive never bolted them on, however they appear to have been planned a little better than the RR plates(cnc'd better, just a lot cleaner looking peice). These however are slightly thicker. I would check fitment and do a light portmatch if needed, though they may fit perfectly as is. Hell, Im letting them go for half price and there new now. Worse case, after you get your HPF intake just sell these for the same price as you payed for them new

Originally Posted by Blitzmann

Shoot me a PM with either a name and address to mail you a money order, or a paypal account.

Originally Posted by tire

i have found very few people that have done this swap. the 4v or 2v 5.4's are a more popular swap, but that's not how the cookie crumbled.

goal:

swap in the 5.4 for as cheap as possible, making no upgrades unless neccessary to replace said part anyways.

what i have:

*00 gt 5spd (stock)

*a low mileage 2005 3v 5.4 f-series truck motor, complete from oil pan to air filter, wiring harness, computer, fly. just lacks accessories, but i'm hoping to reuse some of my 4.6's.

i'm going into this swap nearly blind (i'm fully aware what a PITA it'll be, but i have a tendency to be stubborn and have access to lots of tools). my goal is bang-for-the-buck performance. this translates into i just want the motor in the car for now. suspension tuning/lightening the car/bolt-ons, etc. will have to wait a long time. i got the car (wrecked) for a total of 500$ and the 5.4 for 600$... are you getting the picture yet? btw anyone interested in a v10 triton motor?

so far i have a battery relocation kit i'll be installing when i return to cali. the battery is a truck battery with 700+ cca's so no problems there.

it turns out a 4" cowl won't cover the intake... the 5.4 is 6.5" taller than the 4.6. i'm still unsure what to do for a hood, but as the car is going in for paint relatively soon i'll have to address that before the motor swap beings. i have become decent at fiberglass repair and sculpting, so i may turn it into a mach 1 type shaker-ish looking hood and just cut my stock hood. i don't want a 6"+ rediculous hood on a slow daily driver.

Q's: (updated 12/16)

*the tb is fly by wire aka no cable. i understand that this will further complicate the swap and i would prefer a regular tb anyways. will this cause a complication with the computer to put a regular tb on?
???????????


*i'm replacing the motor mounts, but i want to know how the aftermarket ones differ from the stock replacements. and if the price difference is small enough to warrant buying the aftermarket ones.

*the tranny will bolt right up to the 5.4 as the 5.4s are just taller decked 4.6s, but is there anything in this dept. that i should know about? the fly is an 8 bolt btw not a 6 like stock.

*being that the engine is complete and has the computer and everything pretty much i'll need to get her at least running, would a custom tune be recommended? i imagine most reading this would respond that yes, of course, but keep in mind the tune would cost as much as what i got the motor for. and 365tq on 87 octane is plenty for me at this point!

A: i have a plan of attack now for the wiring harness. it turns out reusing the stock harness and extending a few of the sensors is the easiest way to go about it. the motors share the same sensors. this will allow me to use the stock computer and retain all functions of the car without painfully rewiring everything. as for a tune, the stock computer (i've been told) will "work" but a custom tune will be needed. i guess i'll go ahead and find some bigger injectors, install the rear gears, and tune for 91 oct if i'm going to have to get it tuned.
CRAP< ALL THAT NOISE MAY NOT WORK..... i'll update when i do it. fark!


*will the stock cooling system be sufficient? the only change planned is a 55gpm meziere elec. water pump.
A: it's not looking good that the stock system will keep up with the motor. more than likely i'll get it in and running, and monitor the hell out of the water temp. i've also been told electric water pumps aren't a good idea on a street car but i'm not convinced. i'm going to contact meziere tomorrow.

*will the oil pan fit w/ the stock k member?

*what accessories from a 4.6 will fit on the 5.4?

*does anyone have feedback for underdrive pullies of diff. brands?

*best way to drop the motor in?

A: from below

i may keep this thread alive over time as i have more Q's, if anyone with experience or knowledge feels like advising.

looks like this but dirtier
http://www.motorsportscenter.com/uploads/1_002.jpg

Originally Posted by tiptone

That truck intake is going to kill you when it comes to performance. I know you can do a 2V 5.4 swap using the 2V mustang intake with adapter plates. If you can't get a different intake I think you'll be so disappointed with the outcome as to not make it worthwhile.

The rods in the 5.4 block won't handle much (anything ?) over about 5500 RPMs without putting a window in the block. Even if you don't want to go all forged internals, definitely look into replacing those rods.

Here's some good info on the 4.6 3V swap and another with TONS of info on the 4.6 to 5.4 swap, both will be useful if you haven't seen them yet. Good luck with the swap and be sure to keep the thread updated.

Originally Posted by tire

i was initially worried, but after speaking with two guys that went 2v 5.4 (both ran them as-is for a time, one converted to a car intake) it soothed my concerns.

here (BELOW) is a baseline dyno of 'assasinator' from modular depot forums. the motor is the same as mine (stock 3v 5.4) only mods are an x pipe and some other negligible bolt-on. i don't think it'll drive too much like a truck motor (keep in mind the mod motor family began with the f150 in 97 (4.6) to accomodate the growing segment of car buyers that wanted a truck, but just drove it around like a car. the ohc mod motors were basically a compromise that still had good tq but had better street manners and reliability. and maybe i'll be eating my words, but i'm just going to have to find out. the cheapest route is the goal.


i will be talking to a good shop when i get back and i'll definitely ask them about this.


thanks!

Originally Posted by tiptone

No doubt it will work, and will make good peak numbers.



That graph shows exactly what I'm talking about, the peak numbers look great (torque anyway) but notice that he hits it at just over 3600 RPM. You really want to be able to move that out to 4500 or so. That's the biggest difference between both of the mod motors (4.6 and 5.4) between Mustang and F-150, the intakes largely determine where the peak torque is made.

Those numbers do look quite a bit better as far as peaks than the 5.4 2Vs I've seen with similar mods. I'm very interested in what you can do with it. If/when I ever have to get into the bottom end of mine I'll be rebuilding it as a 5.4 2V.

P.S. The 4.6 and 5.4 showed up in the F-150 in 97 and the 4.6 was in the Mustang in 96. The 4.6 made its debut with Ford in the Lincoln Town Car in 91.

Originally Posted by tire

are you talking 4.6? either way, a 3v 5.4 will only put around 250 to the ground stock. am i missing something?

and i'm looking forward to your .02 as well. i think you did a 4v swap correct?


i follow. this is just going to be a play-it-by-ear thing... i'm not going to race her (slicks and all) until i beef up the driveline anyways and i'll def. report back with my .02. i rarely have even driven anything over 250rwhp much less 340rwtq, so i dunno.



are you going to reuse your stock heads for ease of install? plan on boosting the 2v, or keeping it n/a?

originally the plan was to put a triton v10 in an sn95, however the firewall was going to have to be moved back 4" (that's right... crazy huh) and while i'm short i'm not 'that' short and would complicate things.

then i picked up the 5.4 for cheap and thought about only using the bottom end and do what you are planning, but not rebuild the shortblock. then i got ballsy and now i want to salvage those 3v being that they're dang near as good as the 4v. i fancy turbos these days and they don't need crazy exhaust flow like hi-po s/c'd.


nice, another wrinkle in the brain. they named it something silly, like the triton name for the trucks, but it was something else for the towncars... help me out..?

i'm out for now, my beer pong title requires defending!

austin

Originally Posted by tiptone

Don't get me wrong, I bet that car is still a blast to drive on the street.



I'm looking to make it into a really fun street car. I'm not interested in lots of street racing, no trips to the drag strip, etc. I've been fairly content with this 4.6 since I bought it new in 2000, but it would be nice to get a little of the low end torque back that we gave up coming from the pushrod 302.

I'll likely go with mildly ported heads, mild street cam and the HPS intake that'll bolt up to 2V heads on a 5.4 block. I'll be leaving lots of HP/torque untapped, but I'm not building a race car.



Hmm, I know some of the 4V engines out there (not Cobras that were assembled by hand) go by the Intech moniker (Navigator for example). I'm not sure if they gave it a fancy name in 4.6/2V format in the Town Car.

Originally Posted by 2k4mk1

I seem to remeber reading somewher that the K member has to change. I believe
that either UPR or Maximum has one that will allow a 5.4 to fit.

Try treading thru this on Modular depot......
Who has a 5.4 Mustang?? not GT500 - Modular Depot Forums

Originally Posted by psiperformance

where do i begin

First the variable cam timing will not work and become a issue so you will need to install cam lockout plates to avoid cam slap on the springs in the factory cam gear

Second No you can absolulty never remove the drive by wire and use the 3 valve ecu its a intergral part of the engines tuning and tables it HAS to have the drive by wire hooked up.

Third there is no adaptor to put a car intake on that motor available so you would have to get somethng custom made .

Fourth the cam sensors are so different in their action and operation due to the variable cam timing you cant just hook a 2 valve ecu up and exspect it to run the motor the 2 valve cam sensors have a single pulse per rotation of the cam the 3 valve has mutilpe pulses

the swap you are refering to was IN a 05 up so it already had a 3 valve ecu and the drive by wire so that was not a problem

fifth if you KEEP the drive by wire you will have to get a pedal assembly from a 05 up and mount it in your car some how wich also means the wiring etc for that.

you're ac unit and power steering pump will bolt up


basicly you have two choices keep the 3 valve ecu and harnes and some how adapt the DBW pedal or run a stand alone system like a fast etc

in the end the word cheap wont be applicable to this project.

Originally Posted by tire

can you elaborate? as in something similar in function to vtec for honda, where the cam profile changes at increased rpms to make more top end power?

"cam lockout plates" sounds like a job for my machine shop. care to school me?


would a custom tune + regular tb work? or would it be easier to get the pedals for driveby wire?


do you mind breaking this down in laymen's terms... i take this to mean an independent system such as FAST will be needed in this case with custom tune? or do i have to use the truck's computer and rewire every single thing?


argh.


its about time something went my way.


wow i got ahead of myself there... i appreciate the imput. (but i still don't like hearing how it's going to be $$$ )

austin

Originally Posted by tiptone

HPS is supposed to be releasing the intake similar to the Hardball'r that will bolt up to 2V heads on a 5.4 block just after the first of the year. Honestly using that intake (or a PI intake with adaptor plates), 2V heads and your block there would be no timetable really. Use that 5.4 shortblock, stick PI heads/cams and the HPS intake on the top and use the accessories off of the Mustang. Bung, you're done after a tune. 90% of people wouldn't know at a glance that it wasn't a 4.6.

I've not ready about anybody keeping it that stock while putting it back together, but it is fairly straight forward. You'd probably be looking at HP/torque number just over that of stock, but would respond much better to heads/cams/boltons than a 4.6.

I love the idea of the 5.4 (even 2V) because you should be able to hit 300hp on motor without having to go hog-wild with the heads/cams and when you get there instead of having just over 300 ft/lb of torque you should be closer to 400.

Originally Posted by tire

i really want to keep the 3v heads. the PI 2v's are decent but like i said i am greedy. for me i only care about power output, regardless of the source. if i could get a vtwin motorcycle motor to make a lot of power reliably but cheaper than another route, i'd prob go for it. a 2v 5.4 is going to lose a good deal of power.


no replacement for displacement, except maybe a 2.3L kenne.

Originally Posted by 96greengt

No, I did a built 2V in mine and expect it to be well over 300 hp to the wheels once dyno tuned.

Incorrect, like Tiptone mentioned earlier, HPS has an intake developed for the 5.4 using an adapter plate. I have a link, but it is well over 30+ pages and I do not care to read each page until I find the source, but it is there.

Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Mustang Forums

Originally Posted by psiperformance

Thats a TWO VALVE 5.4 adaptor the three valves have totaly diffent ports and bolt patterns IT WILL NOT WORK im not saying that a 3 valve plate cant be made but as of right now im not aware of anyone who makes one.

there is only one person in that whole 107 page thread who talks about a three valve adapotr and hes trying to whittle something out of wood then get a copy machined from aluminum either way not going to be cheap for the final product.

Originally Posted by Morgan The Black

I dont really "need" 2 but I'd take the HV and a pickup instead

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

so are you expecting 30rwhp from the headers alone or with a complete exhaust?