Russia flexing their wimpy muscles? - Mustang Boards


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Old 12-16-2008, 05:10 PM
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Default Russia flexing their wimpy muscles?

WASHINGTON Russian warships have been plying the waters off Venezuela and Panama in recent weeks and are now heading for Cuba, but U.S. officials are not so much wringing their hands as yawning.

Asked about a Russian warship transiting the Panama Canal earlier this month, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who saw the ship while crossing the canal last week told The Associated Press: "I guess they're on R&R. It's fine."

The Pentagon, while puzzled by the Russians' actions, also is taking a ho-hum attitude. The U.S. military commander for the region, Adm. James Stavridis, head of the U.S. Southern Command, said that from his vantage point, there is no reason to be concerned about the Russian naval activity.

"They pose no military threat to the U.S.," Stavridis said in an e-mail to the AP on Tuesday.

It was the first such passage by a Russian or Soviet warship since World War II.

There is no suggestion of a military confrontation, but the Russian moves are notable in part because they appear to reflect an effort by Moscow to flex some muscle in America's backyard in response to Washington's support for the former Soviet republic of Georgia and elsewhere on the Russian periphery. That includes U.S. missile defense bases to be erected in Poland and the Czech Republic.

The Russians were unhappy with a U.S. decision to send a state-of-the-art warship into the Black Sea as part of an American humanitarian aid mission for Georgia in the aftermath of last August's war with Russia. The Russians also are angry about the Bush administration's push to add Georgia and the former Soviet republic of Ukraine as members of the NATO military alliance.

Under the gaze of the U.S. Southern Command, Russian ships this fall held joint exercises with the navy of Venezuela, whose president, Hugo Chavez, is a fierce U.S. critic.

Navy Rear Adm. Tom Meek, the deputy director for security and intelligence at Southern Command, said in a telephone interview Tuesday that he sees little chance of Russia teaming up with Venezuela in a militarily meaningful way.

"I don't think that Russia and Venezuela are really serious about putting together a military coalition that would give them any kind of aggregate military capability to oppose anybody," Meek said. "Frankly, the maneuvers they conducted down here were so basic and rudimentary that they did not amount to anything, in my opinion."

And it's not just the Russian navy that is showing up in the West.

In September, two Tu-160 long-range bombers, known in the West as Blackjacks, landed in Venezuela the first landing in the Western Hemisphere by Russian military aircraft since the Cold War ended.

Rice shrugs it off.

"A few aging Blackjacks flying unarmed along the coast of Venezuela is I don't know why one would do it, but I'm not particularly going to lose sleep over that," she said in the AP interview Monday.

She said Russia is welcome to have relations with countries in the West.

"I don't think anybody's confused about the preponderance of power in the Western Hemisphere," Rice said.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has made no effort to hide his irritation at what he considers American arrogance.

"God forbid from engaging in any kind of controversy in the American continent," he said, referring to his Blackjack bombers flying to Venezuela for a training exercise. "This is considered the 'holiest of the holy,'" he said during a meeting with Western political scholars at his Black Sea residence in Sochi. "And they drive ships with weapons to a place just 10 kilometers from where we're at? Is this normal? Is this an equitable move?"

On Monday, the Russian navy announced that a destroyer and two support vessels will visit Cuba for the first time since the Soviet era. The ships are from a squadron that has been on a lengthy visit to Latin America; they are scheduled to put in at Havana on Friday for a five-day stay, navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said.

Moscow's support for Cuba fell sharply after the 1991 Soviet collapse, but the Russians have bolstered ties recently.

The joint naval exercises with Venezuela were Russia's way of "demonstrating to the U.S. that it has a foothold in a region traditionally dominated by the U.S.," said analyst Anna Gilmour at Jane's Intelligence Review.

Still, she and many Russian analysts say Moscow's deployments of warships are largely for show.

Russia's navy is a shadow of its Soviet-era force, having suffered from a serious lack of investment since the 1991 Soviet collapse. Many ships and submarines have rusted away at their berths, and deadly accidents occur regularly.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:02 PM
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Don't underestimate the Russians. There is a reason why the countries bordering it are not very comfortable anymore. Remember, the last time someone did was Hitler, and look how well that turned out.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:29 AM
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hitler invaded... the russians though shouldn't be underestimated. They're the number 1 producer of iron oxide sourced from aging weapons. We need that iron. bwahahahahaha.

Russia is a joke of a country. The USSR collapsed and all that was left was a shell of the former power structure. Nothing there really changed, corruption is still the way things get done and organized crime runs their government at many levels. They have nukes which probably won't work and the rest have been sold to pakistan and n. korea. The only thing we need to worry about from Russia is the ginormous environmental catastrophe that their idiotic attempt to compete in the Cold War has left them on the brink of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that newspaper clipping up there
Russia's navy is a shadow of its Soviet-era force....
Should read: Russia's navy is a shadow of its Soviet-era farce...
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:48 AM
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Surrender or Die
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:54 AM
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Tremble in fear and know that there is no hope
Feel the ultimate power of the mother lands navy
surrender and prepare to be boarded

Last edited by Lazerred6; 12-17-2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:17 AM
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I found it very interesting how dismissive the U.S. seems about the Russian movement. Especially since the current Pres is "I like to pick fights guy".
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:25 AM
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I was talking to a buddy of mine who is a submariner on leave right now and he said that it's not so much that they couldn't do any damage it's just that it would be over really fast cause they are out classed and we would see anything that they are going to try miles away
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dn3ck View Post
hitler invaded... the russians though shouldn't be underestimated. They're the number 1 producer of iron oxide sourced from aging weapons. We need that iron. bwahahahahaha.

Russia is a joke of a country. The USSR collapsed and all that was left was a shell of the former power structure. Nothing there really changed, corruption is still the way things get done and organized crime runs their government at many levels. They have nukes which probably won't work and the rest have been sold to pakistan and n. korea. The only thing we need to worry about from Russia is the ginormous environmental catastrophe that their idiotic attempt to compete in the Cold War has left them on the brink of.



Should read: Russia's navy is a shadow of its Soviet-era farce...
Yes, but Hitler invaded because he saw that they were weak (especially after getting owned by the Finns). Remember though, Russia has a lot of potential wealth (not just from oil but it has all the resources it will ever need), has a large population, and determination. Russian soldiers are always some of the best because they always have to make due w/ the least (i.e. Enemy at the Gates). They may look like a shell of their former shelf but nothing has really changed from the USSR days. Just in the USSR days, you wouldn't hear of the disasters/accidents. All I know is the former USSR republics are scared for a reason, and it's not from some former shell.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:00 AM
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you're right.. they're not scared of the shell...it's the wack job running the show and his puppet medvedyev
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:40 AM
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the russian army is nothing to fear.....sure it can kick the crap out of georgia, which is basically like the USA fighting Texas. the russianarmy like the chinese army are formidable....but have severe weakness' that cannot be fixed any time soon.

the russian army is good for about two weeks, after that it will suffer from its poor logistic capabilities. sure russian can drive thier tanks and march thier troops to fight, but it lacks the ability to supply those troops in the field, and espescially under combat conditions.

the might of the US is not the size of its armed forces...or even its technology. the reason we are the strongest country on earth is that we are the only country that can land an army anywhere in the world, and fight a war.
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Old 12-17-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afterhours View Post
the russian army is nothing to fear.....sure it can kick the crap out of georgia, which is basically like the USA fighting Texas. the russianarmy like the chinese army are formidable....but have severe weakness' that cannot be fixed any time soon.

the russian army is good for about two weeks, after that it will suffer from its poor logistic capabilities. sure russian can drive thier tanks and march thier troops to fight, but it lacks the ability to supply those troops in the field, and espescially under combat conditions.

the might of the US is not the size of its armed forces...or even its technology. the reason we are the strongest country on earth is that we are the only country that can land an army anywhere in the world, and fight a war.
Russia had no problems winning WWII w/o supplies (again, see Enemy at the Gates, the stuff in that movie is not BS). And remember, the German Wermacht was the greatest fighting force, and it was defeated by troops in which half were given rifles and the other half given ammo. But yes, prolonged struggles, such as WWI is not going to be sustainable, unless the same sacrifices that were made in WWII are made again, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. Or, Russia can finally get its economy booming by tapping its resources and to use the money that comes in to modernize.
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:31 PM
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This is a russian sub in providence RI, be afraid.
But seriously, it sank over a year ago. Didn't dive, it sank, because of a storm. It WAS a really cool museum though.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman97 View Post
They may look like a shell of their former shelf but nothing has really changed from the USSR days..
And there in lies the problem, nothing has changed, they havent progressed, instead they rusted.

To a large part of the world Russia is still a force to be reckoned with, but the United States war machine out classes the Russian military in every aspect imaginable.

Can they cause damage? Yes. But they have a snowball chance in hell of winning a military conflict. It would be a suicide mission.
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