I couldn't think what might be difrent. You know the bolt pattern is the same and the water jackets. Maybe the cylinder rings on the gaskets are diffrent. This is where you have a buddy that works at a parts store and he could pull both gaskets for a good comparo.

About the HPS intake!

Some where you mad men mentioned the plenum was to big and could be reduced. I got my intake on the engine and it hits one of the webs in the valley. Should I (1) grind up the valley so the intake fits, (2) reduce the plenum area by machining, or (3) just make a flat plate to replace the lower contoured plate?

All of your comments welcome! Do me wrong people!

 

I took a grinder to the lettering on the bottom of the intake and also the rib in the valley. It fits now with Ford intake gaskets. It BARELY clears. A little more grinding would have gotten some more room but I got it. This method worked for me.

 

mine and sleepingGT's fit without and mods. close fit but no issues.

 

grind down the webbing. It's a big plenum for a reason. The plenum could be smaller which would net crisper throttle response at low rpm but be worse for higher RPM operation and less than ideal with the modest size TB's we use. In general if we used 90mm TB's and upper plenums that could flow with them commonly, then we could have made the common plenum about half the size without worries of entering vacuum behind the throttle blade at WOT and above 4000rpm. Since 70-75mm is common for TB's we use the plenum needed to stay large to feed the motor at 5000-6000rpm and to keep hemholtz related surging from becoming an issue. With a smaller plenum there was a risk of seeing reversion pulses at mid-rpm's with a common plenum that was half the volume.

You can't mill much off the 5.4 intake's bottom half as the bosses for the cover screws no longer go all the way to the roof of the intake. they're only like an inch long now.

dan: summit has TFS head gaskets for 43 bucks each and Fel-Pro branded head bolts for 60 bucks. Makes it out to about 160 bucks shipped for the head changing kit that way. Don't re-use either component.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...w=32&N=700+115
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...L&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...R&autoview=sku

Mine fit fine without issue. I think you guys have newer blocks. The ones I used to measure for the plenum depth were 99 and 00 model year which were before the NVH block came out.

 

Red, thanks for the link but those are 2v/4v bolts, are you saying the 3v can use the same?

 

Mine fit fine without issue. I think you guys have newer blocks. The ones I used to measure for the plenum depth were 99 and 00 model year which were before the NVH block came out.

Mine is a 97 block out of an E-150. 97 is the first year for the 5.4.

 

I do have an NVH block! That may be the only diffrence

Alright! Now how do you guys suppose I go about adapting the HPS intake to my NON-PI heads.
(1) use the common RTV method with the intake gaskets on the water passage
(2) get adapters for the port shape miss match(PI to NPI
(3) get PI heads you dumb @ss, that's what the intake is made for! Who uses NON-PI heads anyways

Thanks for the reply r3d! I thought someone stated the plenum could be a little smaller. Sorry for the offence(if any), not trying to down your work. No punishment intended

 

Without digging back a bunch of pages, anyone have any before/after numbers for JUST the hardballr intake? Also, whats the runner lenght difference between the hardballr vs the stock PI(with the thickness of the adapter plates)?

 

I'd say get the PI heads. If you're gonna do it, you might as well do it the right way

 

+1

 

Another vote for the #3. PI heads can be had on eBay for about $150-225 area. I got my Patriot stage II's used on eBay for $700 shipped. I know, by the time you get the gaskets, bolts etc. etc. it does add up.

 

I can't see why not. I scoured jegs and summit and a google search and couldn't find anything that said 3v take any different head bolts than 2v or 4v. Since it's the same deck and bolt pattern it makes sense. Leave it to ford to count the 30% parts commonality including head bolts and gaskets. hehehe.

Weird... must just be a minor casting difference from block to block. Still, the grinder on the webbing is good magic.

No offense taken, just making sure everyone understands that there are reasons for most things. Occasionally they're for performance rather than just to make it fit heheh.

Now then: get the PI heads or grab a set of HPS's aluminum adapters for NPI-PI. Made just for this application. Coat both sides with a thin layer of RTV and you probably won't even have to use an intake gasket.

10hp/10tq on shorty headers over my modded HPS 4.6 intake on adapter plates. Since my 4.6 intake was basically the same as the 5.4 intake so, I figure the plates cost me 10hp/tq with some good level of confidence.

If you're going from a standard PI intake figure possibly as high as 20hp with a small loss of peak tq. From what I see of Dan's car in the 5.0&SF article, he gained 22hp and lost 10 peak tq going to the Reichard + adapters from the PI intake + adapters.

HPS runners are shorter by 4-5" depending on the runner being measured with adapters in place.

that's a screamin' deal. Well done.

 

can anyone tell me what all is involved in gettin rid of all my egr bull****. any pros cons to deleting it. ive heard not to mess with it bc the engine runs cooler with it installed bc the exhaust gasses are not coming back to the engine or somethin like that. i have a 96 cobra btw that might help haha. thanks

 

Leave the EGR parts off, plug the holes, and get it turned off in the tune.

 

Could be different length, if I pick up a 3v motor I'll just have to measure and find out. I've got my pcv filtered and its still blowing smoke, so the consumption is else where. Gotta finish a leakdown test today, but so far it looks fine and compression is fine, so I think that leaves the oil problem in the heads.... I don't know how to be 100% certain, wish I could be...

Anyway, if the heads are the problem I'm back to thinking 5.4 3v, either with cams, or pull the heads to port them and add cams. My roughly calculated guess is around 310/340 if I go the 2nd route. Loses a little down low but should be up about 100 ft-lbs at my shift point compared to the current motor..

 

What all heads is everyone using?

 

I figured you guys would lean that way. Does make sense!
However, the NON PI heads that I'm useing and are bolted to the engine are Steen Racing Ported heads. I would hate to just switch heads out because of an intake port miss match.

I like r3ds idea! Just get the adapters from HPS and uses a skim of RTV!

It would be interesting to see some dyno #'s from a 2V 5.4l with NPI heads, stock PI cams and the normal bolt-ons. I would say the hp #'s would be down, but the torque #'s would be higher then the stage 2 PI's

 

Ported non-PIs flow about the same as PI, so no reason to change at this point. You'd also have huge compression ratio issues if the pistons are for nPI...

Assuming you mean ported non-PI, when ported they should have pretty similar port volume along with similar flow #s, so I don't think there would be any huge difference..

 

Maybe its me but I cant seem to find a 5/8 male NPT to 3/4 barb or nipple. Am I looking for the wrong thing or what?

 

see below.

that's how I did it.

I thought about the length thing but since the heads had to fit into existing packaging space and they retained the same basic design of the lash adjuster / roller follower / cam set I'd be surprised if they changed the head bolt length. It's a huge deal for Ford to change something like a bolt since they use 20 of them on each v8 and they're not cheap or easy to tell apart and the 3v engine program was an update to the 2v/4v program so it would make sense for them to keep little parts common so they dont have to re-stock a whole assembly facility.

your guess is as good as mine. They were sold to me as Fox Lake stage 2, clearly they're not that heavily done up. They do have big valves and some minor porting. Heavily considering a set of TFS heads but I keep himmin' and haw'in about whether to bother or just take what I have and drive it till it blows clean ******' up.

Didn't realize they were ported... keep em. Use the adapters and you should be able to make as good or better power as any stock PI car. Illwill's car was pretty damned fast with NPI heads.

Check your local Lowe's/Home Despot/OSH in the plumbing section. BRASS ONLY! NO GALVINATED! It may also be that you're in need of me making you one of my swanky all AN models with a -6 coolant crossover tube. Comes out to about a hundred bucks. Easy to deal with but a little spendy. LMK you get it at my cost.

 

Red, which article are you refering too? I remember the reichard besting the stock PI intake by around 35whp(IIRC)?
Why are you saying "until it blows clean up"? Hell, at your powerlevel and RPM your turning your built shortblock should last hundred thousand miles. Put some high comp pistons in and Put a huge shot of gas on that thing man and I bet you would see some serious nmbers. I bet you would gain 30whp+ with your supporting mods by steping up to around 11.3:1

 

Go to a Napa store. I got a brass fitting there that fit perfect, it was in stock and $7.

 

[quote=TurboX2;395161]Ported non-PIs flow about the same as PI, so no reason to change at this point. You'd also have huge compression ratio issues if the pistons are for nPI...

I was wondering that. I have a 97 NPI 5.4 that had NPI heads from the factory. I then put PI Stage II Patriot heads on it. I thought I saw somewhere that that would net me a high compression ratio but I cannot find the piston dish cc specs again. The Patriot PI combustion chamber volume is 46cc bec. they eliminate the swirl "eyebrow". Hopefully I don't end up with too high of a ratio since it's in there and running!! I haven't driven it yet and even when I do, I won't be getting on it until I get a tune. Info anyone??

 

[quote=horspla2000;395486]If you had stock 42cc PI heads you would have gained a full point of compression, with the 46cc chambers you gain about .5. Shouldn't be a problem, especially if you are adding cams as you typically need a higher static compression ratio to combat loss of dynamic compression from a later intake valve closing. If not adding cams shouldn't be a problem, just gonna need to run better gas.

 

Putting a shot of giggle juice on it asap. Keep getting sniped on ebay, so I'm gunna make you jokers sell me your excess nitrous parts and I'll build a kit. I'm re-building my 2 stage kit. Going with a 50 shot dry and adding 125 wet as a 2nd stage. I have a lot of the parts but I sold most of my nitrous stuff last year to pay for other work on the car.

On the engine build front, I'm really more thinking of the TFS heads when they finally start shipping. I've go so much $ in the headers that I want to keep using them and the bottom end is pretty stout already.

Myillwill: you still got those solenoids?

Anyone got a nitrous feed line, a fogger nozzle, or other nitrous parts. I already have a bottle and bracket but I need a guage, misc fittings and all that jazz. I'm doing my own electrical layout with a buddy of mine that's an electrical engineer. We're making all the weatherpack connections and everything... just for geek fun.

you should land in the early-mid 10:1 CR area. I wouldn't worry at all. It's still quite pump gas friendly especially with hotter than stock cams. I run compression that high on shitty gas with no issues.

here's your head bolts and gaskets. YW!
http://forums.corral.net/forums/show....php?t=1093555

 

i have the 2 big black solinoids and some random lines. pm me...

 

I attempted to upload a youtube vid of my car. Not sure if i did it right but try this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWh6Sq_ICE

It probably won't be real great quality since I just used my older digital camera. We'll see.

 

Flowmaster 3-chambers? Sounds exactly like my car did....

 

sounds familiar...

Get that thing to a dyno already.

 

Well....got my leakdown test done and I've got one cylinder with leaking rings, with 80psi air on the cylinder you can feel the air blow out the oil filler cap, so thats where my oil consumption has been coming from. I used a set of used '01 Cobra pistons when I rebuilt it, and even though the machine shop checked them out I'm guessing that was my downfall....I went for a cheap upgrade and now I'm paying for it.... I'm planning to pick up a 5.4 3v in the next couple days, there's a few choices at a yard an hour away. Most likely gonna pull the heads to port them, and will add cams either before install or down the road a little, haven't decided yet. My 2v motor will be available if anyone is in need, its a real easy rebuild/fix I've just been wanting to play with a 3v. The heads are ported and have bronze guides installed. Could even throw in a set of adapter plates, though with the HPS intake out there can't be too many going that route anymore. Let me know if interested.

Time to see what a worked 3v can do....