supercharger dilemma

markush · 12-20-2006, 05:13 PM

I just picked up a totaly stock 98 GT 5 speed with the intention of slapping on a supercharger. I was all set to go with the ProCharger HO P-1SC kit when i found a local tuner (the only one in the area that i would trust) that can give all of the following for about the same price as just the Procharger kit.

Vortech s-trim blower, 42lbs injectors, sct ba-2400 90mm maf,
255high volume fuel pump, sct chip, dyno session, custom tune, a/f
readings, and printouts.

He tells me he's done alot of this exact setup and that it'll give me 350-400 rwhp on my otherwise stock 98 GT. I was expecting about 350-375 on the motor with just the Procharger kit.

I like the Procharger because of the intercooler and warranty but he's offering more HP, upgrades, a tune, and his experience of tuning the Vortech setup before...all for the same $$. What would you do??

MattJ · 12-20-2006, 05:36 PM

personally, id want to run an intercooled setup but a lot of people dont and can see 350 rwhp. usually all the kits come with everything you need. dyno tunes are roughly anywhere from 100-300 depending on how long you are on. so you can get the other kit and spend an extra couple hundred bucks and have it tuned.

me personally, id run an intercooled setup or a vortech with aftercooler.

stanger00 · 12-21-2006, 12:00 AM

are you going to want to take off the procharger every 5k miles to change its oil? think of maintenance and if your not mechanically inclined then i would just go for a vortech kit. very easy to take care of until a belt breaks then you have to remove the vortech to put a new belt on. if you still want something easier then go with a novi 2000 if a belt breaks then you can have a new one on in about 10 minutes dont have to remove anything but the negative lead on the battery.

you can always add a intercooler later on you would just have to reclock the blower which is real easy to do. finding a intercooler for a decent price is the hard part.

spike_africa · 12-21-2006, 07:28 AM

a none pi-headed 2v is not gonna make almost 400rwhp with that blower and no intercooler sorry. otherwise if you like that deal better go for it.

markush · 12-21-2006, 07:49 AM

[quote=stanger00;234076]are you going to want to take off the procharger every 5k miles to change its oil?QUOTE]

Really? You have to pull it to change its oil?

I'll be doing either installation myself so maintenance isn't a concern with me. The main thing drawing me to Procharger is the intercooler....and seeing prices for Vortechs Aftercooler makes me shudder. The whole reason i want to go the supercharger route in the first place is so i can do it once and be done. I wasn't planning on adding "this" or "that" down the road.

So i think i have my mind made up (again) to go with the Procharger kit.

stanger00 · 12-21-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markush

Really? You have to pull it to change its oil? .

yeah me and a friend tried to find different ways of draining and adding oil to the procharger unit itself.

04DarkShadowGT · 12-21-2006, 08:05 AM

Spike is right, youre not going to be even close to 400whp with an otherwise stock 98 GT. I am guessing 325-330 max.

markush · 12-21-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike_africa

a none pi-headed 2v is not gonna make almost 400rwhp with that blower and no intercooler sorry. otherwise if you like that deal better go for it.

Are my expectations of 350-375 at the motor with the Procharger kit reasonable?

spike_africa · 12-21-2006, 09:48 AM

at the motor 350 is possible at the tires hell no.

Mikeaveli · 12-21-2006, 10:47 AM

Port and Polish the NPI heads and put a PI intake on and you should be close to your goal.

Teal_Beast · 12-21-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike_africa

a none pi-headed 2v is not gonna make almost 400rwhp with that blower and no intercooler sorry. otherwise if you like that deal better go for it.

i was just thinking that.

I vote for procharger.

IF you change your oil ever 3k miles on your car whats the big deal with doing the procharger every 5k?

WaterDR · 12-21-2006, 07:48 PM

Prochargers all come with intercoolers, because they are soo dam inefficient.

Get a Vortec or a Novi over the Procharger.....and try to get an I/C too.

markush · 12-22-2006, 08:06 AM

OMG! this is what i get when i tell this guy i'm gonna stick with my desicion of Procharger and ask him to tune it for me.

I understand you being caught up with Prochargers marketing campaign
and wanting an intercooler. That just means they did their job..

I have been tuning and driving mustangs for over 10yrs.. From the
beginning, I have never used an intercooler. Mainly because the class
I competed in, EFI Renegade, didn't allow them. We would make upwards of 35lbs of NON INTERCOOLED boost with temperatures seeing over 300degrees at the intake manifold.

If you were going with over 15lbs of boost, I would suggest an
intercooler. But, you are looking at an entry level kit which will only make about 8-10lbs. The air charge difference between the 2 kits from Intercooled to non intercooled is MINIMAL. Bascially, an intercooler is there as a restriction, but procharger knows how to market. Also, the impeller design of the procharger created A LOT more heat vs the impeller design of a vortech creates more POWER.. Vortech has always been know to be a ENGINEERING based company vs procharger being a marketing company. That's how it is on the racing circuit.

Anyways, I wanted to give you ALL THE FACTS before you jump into a
decision. One other thing is the self contained thing.. the prochargers ALWAYS leak. I can put you in touch with MANY customers of mine who made the mistake you did..

Teal_Beast · 12-22-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markush

OMG! this is what i get when i tell this guy i'm gonna stick with my desicion of Procharger and ask him to tune it for me.

I understand you being caught up with Prochargers marketing campaign
and wanting an intercooler. That just means they did their job..

I have been tuning and driving mustangs for over 10yrs.. From the
beginning, I have never used an intercooler. Mainly because the class
I competed in, EFI Renegade, didn't allow them. We would make upwards of 35lbs of NON INTERCOOLED boost with temperatures seeing over 300degrees at the intake manifold.

If you were going with over 15lbs of boost, I would suggest an
intercooler. But, you are looking at an entry level kit which will only make about 8-10lbs. The air charge difference between the 2 kits from Intercooled to non intercooled is MINIMAL. Bascially, an intercooler is there as a restriction, but procharger knows how to market. Also, the impeller design of the procharger created A LOT more heat vs the impeller design of a vortech creates more POWER.. Vortech has always been know to be a ENGINEERING based company vs procharger being a marketing company. That's how it is on the racing circuit.

Anyways, I wanted to give you ALL THE FACTS before you jump into a
decision. One other thing is the self contained thing.. the prochargers ALWAYS leak. I can put you in touch with MANY customers of mine who made the mistake you did..

Prochargers intercoolers are inneficiant. However, vortechs design makes it hard to put anything on it besides water/meth inj. or there aftercooler (very expensive)

However a good intercooler (not even too expensive) is going to see a .5-1.5psi pressure drop. . not exactly something to complain about when your temps drop from so drastically. There is no use compressing air if your just compression hot air.

i certainly hope your not argueing against intercoolers.

markush · 12-22-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teal_Beast

i certainly hope your not argueing against intercoolers.

I'm not, however it appears he is. I told him i was sticking with procharger beacuase of the intercooler and that was his responce...well when i get something like that there is no way i 'm gonna show up with a Procharger and ask him to tune it.

Teal_Beast · 12-22-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markush

I'm not, however it appears he is. I told him i was sticking with procharger beacuase of the intercooler and that was his responce...well when i get something like that there is no way i 'm gonna show up with a Procharger and ask him to tune it.

OH ok

stanger00 · 12-22-2006, 11:18 AM

personally its pretty easy to intercool a vortech. i put a paxton intercooler on my vortech kit on my car and i made too much power. vortech intercooled will make more power and torque then a P1SC will make

04DarkShadowGT · 12-22-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markush

Are my expectations of 350-375 at the motor with the Procharger kit reasonable?

Yeah on motor, but that would be maybe 300-310 at the wheels.

Teal_Beast · 12-22-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04DarkShadowGT

Yeah on motor, but that would be maybe 300-310 at the wheels.

thats what my V6 made with a procharger

whitethunder46 · 12-22-2006, 11:58 AM

If you made 375 motor, that's about 330RWHP.

If you can afford it, best bet is an intercooled Vortech.

PureStang · 12-22-2006, 01:20 PM

go to Modularpowerhouse.com/forums and ask the people there. most of them are supercharged or turbo'd. i guarentee you that they will tell you to get a NOVI or Vortec V2-SQ trim and throw an intercooler on them.

as for being able to intercool a vortec being hard. that bs. you can intercool anything centrifigual supercharger with a Paxton Air to Air intercooler (1400) or a Do-It-Yourself intercooler (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XXX-L...ayphotohosting many people from miles per hour are using this exact intercooler and are seeing 10lbs of boost).

mcmmotorsports · 12-22-2006, 02:41 PM

Or, you could just go this route.

:

http://www.mustangboards.com/mustang...ech-v-1-s.html

ChrisGT · 12-23-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmmotorsports

Or, you could just go this route.

:

http://www.mustangboards.com/mustang...ech-v-1-s.html

shameless plug

12-20-2006, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
markush Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	supercharger dilemma I just picked up a totaly stock 98 GT 5 speed with the intention of slapping on a supercharger. I was all set to go with the ProCharger HO P-1SC kit when i found a local tuner (the only one in the area that i would trust) that can give all of the following for about the same price as just the Procharger kit. Vortech s-trim blower, 42lbs injectors, sct ba-2400 90mm maf, 255high volume fuel pump, sct chip, dyno session, custom tune, a/f readings, and printouts. He tells me he's done alot of this exact setup and that it'll give me 350-400 rwhp on my otherwise stock 98 GT. I was expecting about 350-375 on the motor with just the Procharger kit. I like the Procharger because of the intercooler and warranty but he's offering more HP, upgrades, a tune, and his experience of tuning the Vortech setup before...all for the same $$. What would you do??

12-20-2006, 05:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
MattJ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 10,243	personally, id want to run an intercooled setup but a lot of people dont and can see 350 rwhp. usually all the kits come with everything you need. dyno tunes are roughly anywhere from 100-300 depending on how long you are on. so you can get the other kit and spend an extra couple hundred bucks and have it tuned. me personally, id run an intercooled setup or a vortech with aftercooler. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT Premium - Mineral Grey

12-21-2006, 07:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
spike_africa Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 7,205	a none pi-headed 2v is not gonna make almost 400rwhp with that blower and no intercooler sorry. otherwise if you like that deal better go for it. __________________ Dustin 2002 GT Mustang 5-Speed Drag Radials,Sprayed,Powershifted WOOO HOOOO!

12-21-2006, 08:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
04DarkShadowGT Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ft Wayne, IN Posts: 1,093	Spike is right, youre not going to be even close to 400whp with an otherwise stock 98 GT. I am guessing 325-330 max. __________________

12-21-2006, 09:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
spike_africa Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 7,205	at the motor 350 is possible at the tires hell no. __________________ Dustin 2002 GT Mustang 5-Speed Drag Radials,Sprayed,Powershifted WOOO HOOOO!

12-21-2006, 07:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
markush Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	[quote=stanger00;234076]are you going to want to take off the procharger every 5k miles to change its oil?QUOTE] Really? You have to pull it to change its oil? I'll be doing either installation myself so maintenance isn't a concern with me. The main thing drawing me to Procharger is the intercooler....and seeing prices for Vortechs Aftercooler makes me shudder. The whole reason i want to go the supercharger route in the first place is so i can do it once and be done. I wasn't planning on adding "this" or "that" down the road. So i think i have my mind made up (again) to go with the Procharger kit.

12-21-2006, 10:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mikeaveli Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 80	Port and Polish the NPI heads and put a PI intake on and you should be close to your goal. __________________ 2004 Mustang GT 5-Speed. Sonic Blue

12-21-2006, 07:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
WaterDR Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,370	Prochargers all come with intercoolers, because they are soo dam inefficient. Get a Vortec or a Novi over the Procharger.....and try to get an I/C too. __________________ Black 2000 GT Vert: Novi-2000 with Intercooler (375rwhp @ 9 psi); Tune by Kauffmans; Roush 380R Body kit; Steeda Subframes; Steeda Strut Tower Support; Deep Dish Bullets; FRPP 4:10's; SCT 4 Position Chip with four custom tunes; Steeda CAI; C&L Pleum; BBK 75 TB; SLP Loudmouth; SLP Catted X-Pipe; Bullitt Suspension; UPR Conrol Arms; Focus Fuel Pump My Car My Email

12-22-2006, 08:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
markush Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	OMG! this is what i get when i tell this guy i'm gonna stick with my desicion of Procharger and ask him to tune it for me. I understand you being caught up with Prochargers marketing campaign and wanting an intercooler. That just means they did their job.. I have been tuning and driving mustangs for over 10yrs.. From the beginning, I have never used an intercooler. Mainly because the class I competed in, EFI Renegade, didn't allow them. We would make upwards of 35lbs of NON INTERCOOLED boost with temperatures seeing over 300degrees at the intake manifold. If you were going with over 15lbs of boost, I would suggest an intercooler. But, you are looking at an entry level kit which will only make about 8-10lbs. The air charge difference between the 2 kits from Intercooled to non intercooled is MINIMAL. Bascially, an intercooler is there as a restriction, but procharger knows how to market. Also, the impeller design of the procharger created A LOT more heat vs the impeller design of a vortech creates more POWER.. Vortech has always been know to be a ENGINEERING based company vs procharger being a marketing company. That's how it is on the racing circuit. Anyways, I wanted to give you ALL THE FACTS before you jump into a decision. One other thing is the self contained thing.. the prochargers ALWAYS leak. I can put you in touch with MANY customers of mine who made the mistake you did..

12-22-2006, 11:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
whitethunder46 Always Detailin' Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,556	If you made 375 motor, that's about 330RWHP. If you can afford it, best bet is an intercooled Vortech. __________________ supernissans.net 2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0S http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3022272

12-22-2006, 01:20 PM	#21 (permalink)
PureStang WE ARE PENNSTATE Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Downingtown/West Chester, PA Posts: 4,879	go to Modularpowerhouse.com/forums and ask the people there. most of them are supercharged or turbo'd. i guarentee you that they will tell you to get a NOVI or Vortec V2-SQ trim and throw an intercooler on them. as for being able to intercool a vortec being hard. that bs. you can intercool anything centrifigual supercharger with a Paxton Air to Air intercooler (1400) or a Do-It-Yourself intercooler (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XXX-L...ayphotohosting many people from miles per hour are using this exact intercooler and are seeing 10lbs of boost). __________________ Brandon J My Ride sig by purestang

12-22-2006, 02:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
mcmmotorsports One Bad Mother Trucker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Eastern, NC Posts: 2,773	Or, you could just go this route. : http://www.mustangboards.com/mustang...ech-v-1-s.html __________________