Hope this thread helps you guys out a bit. Hopefully we can get this stickied admins?

This is for 94-04 MUSTANGS ONLY
Some things may apply to S-197s

This thread is for audio systems.


General car audio information __________________
General Mach Stereo information _______________

94-04 Mustang COUPES only
Big sub box installation: You can have up to a 35" wide 14" tall 20" deep Box into your Mustang.

Doing so requires removing the mach amp/speaker rack from the car. You must remove the rear seats from your car to fit the box through the opening.
In some cases you must cut about 1 inch of metal using a saber saw or grinding tool. The metal is a thin layer that is between the 2 spots where you back seat bolt on to. Top part.
I have done this for my car and it came out clean and the seats fit right back into their spots.


Sub wiring:



Amp wiring:
Make sure you get the right gauge wire for your amp as this has alot to do with amps breaking or not performing right. (USE AS SHORT A GROUND WIRE AS POSSIBLE) Remember to take the paint off the ground point so it has a solid ground. Good place is under the rear seats, attach your ground to where the seat belt bolts down. USE SAME SIZE GROUND AS POWER WIRE

LOOK HERE FOR WIRING SIZES AND LENGTH:
http://www.the12volt.com/info/recwirsz.asp


Sub selection: Sub selection is important because you have to match it up with your amp correctly. Buying low name-brand subs is a path to a broken woofer. When you buy an amp make sure you have more power then is available to run the sub don't match them exactly. You can run the amp at lower gain level to get the same amount of bass with out damaging it. Just remember to much power from the amp can break your sub and we don't want that happening.

In my experience with subwoofers: Bazooka, MTX, Kicker, Kenwood, Alpine, the Digital Designs subs are undoubtedly the best I've ever had.
They are hand made in the USA and are completely recon-able. When DD brings out newer models you can send them your sub and they will incorporate the newer items to it for a small fee.

The subs are not that expensive for their entry level to moderate level woofers. I purchased 2- 12 inch DVC subs 1500 series for 150 each. And they outperformed my 2 kicker l7 12s.
***They do not sell online dealer only.***

for more info of DD products visit their site: http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/default.asp

If you have questions about their products call or email them and you will get a fast HUMAN response with all the info you need in it.

Amp selection:
Getting the right amp is the most important item in building a audio system. Many companies put out over-rated numbers for power on their amps. A good site to go to for true power levels is Crutchfield.com
When you go to match up power levels with sub and amp look for the RMS rating and what Ohm you can run it at. Max rating is what the amp can push for only a few seconds till it fries in most cases, same with subs.
Refer to the diagram above for ohm loads for wiring the subs to the amps.

Box building: Building the right box is more important then subwoofer it self. The Sub is actually the most inefficient part of a subwoofer set up.
i prefer to use slot port designs instead of cylinder/aero ports because they are much easier to build and allow for proper tuning of the box.

Make sure you account for subwoofer and port displacement when building a box. If you come to a cubic ft measurement but don't do this when calculating your box will not be correctly build for the tuning you are looking for.

When building a sealed box make sure to account for sub displacement as well.

Use 3/4 inch MDF wood to build your box. Liquid nails and clamps are a good way to put a box together without the use of screws. If using screws remember to pre drill every hole and counter sink the screw for a cleaner finish. Paint or carpet your completed box using staple gun and headliner spray adhesive on all faces of the box, import around the cutout holes so your fabric doesn't come off when you cut it.

Sound-deadening : Hear that rattling coming from your car? Its because you didn't line your car with sound-deadening. A name brand called Dynomat is the most common used for this. It can be expensive though. Lowe's sells a roofing material that has a tar like sticky side and a silver reflective side that acts the same as Dynomat. I used it on my car and lined every square inch of my interior with it. The rattle stopped from everything in the car when the bass hit and the trunk lid rattle was reduced greatly. Face it we have mustangs the trunk IS going to rattle no matter how good you sound proof it.


Good source for audio components:
Online Audio Stores
www.knukonceptz.com - High quality wiring
www.ikesound.com - Highly recommended
www.thezeb.com - Another good one
www.sounddomain.com - good one
http://www.cbrstereo.com/ -
http://www.lgdsuperstore.com/car-audio.html -
http://www.etronics.com/ - low end audio /w cheap prices
http://www.millionbuy.com/ -
http://www.cardiscountstereos.com -
http://www.carstereoexpo.com -
http://www.discountsjungle.com/
www.overstock.com - (low end)
www.savinglots.com -
http://www.partsexpress.com/ -
http://www.judysdeals.com/ -
www.low-hz.com
http://www.crutchfield.com/ - Best overall site with unbeatable customer service!

 

WHY A CAPACITOR IS USELESS:

After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, an amplifiers is made up a battery of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

www.eatel.net/~amptech/el...raudio.htm

Then on the right hand side, scroll down to CAPACITOR. Keep in mind the use
of capacitors in an audio system.

WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.

WHY DO MY LIGHTS DIM?

Headlights brightness is in direct proportion to the source voltage. For
instance, if your car is running, system voltage is ~12.5 -14.4 VOLTS. Your
lights will be much brighter than when your car is turned off--where battery
voltage is ~12V. Most car alternators put out between 75 to 120 amps of
current. When this current draw threshold of the charging system is
exceeded, system voltage will drop as power demands are now shared by the
alternator and the storage devices (battery & cap). We are using battery
reserves beyond this point until the demand lessens

When playing your system really hard. Your lights dim because your
alternator can't keep up it's charging voltage (around 13.8V) and therefore,
demand exceeds output. When this happens, your electronic devices are
dipping into the power storage of the battery. Since the battery stores
power at ~ 12-12.5V, there is a 1.3 to 1.8V drop in voltage available. This
in turn is why your lights dim down.

HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts. Let's look at the situation from a resources standpoint.

Alternator 80 amps
Car accessories (minus stereo) 40 amps
Car Audio system (DRAWS ) ~200 amps AT FULL OUTPUT

In this case, you have 240 amps of draw, but only 80 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts or or let's say 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make? A cap is a peashooter, and we need a Howitzer 150 calibre cannon.

Also, Once a cap is discharged, where does it get it's power from? The alternator, which is already overloaded. Once a cap is discharged, it's worthless. Like justin says, “..The cap already shot its wad, an does limp til recharged…” you get the drift.

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..


Please do not try # 6. New hairstyles are always refreshing, but if you are wearing railroad tracks across your teeth, you might have one big filling after it’s over.

HOW CAN CAPACITORS IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY?

They can't. Sound quality is not dependant upon the presence of large bulky 1 Farad capacitors. How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

IN A NUTSHELL.......

When Richard, our fearless inventor, became World renown for winning every competition under the sun, people began copying what he did. Soon, every 'serious' competitor had a 'stiffening' capacitor--not to be confused with the 'loosening' capacitor.

WHY?

In the late 80s, people began sticking out their tongue when dunking the basketball because Michael Jordan did. Did sticking out your tongue improve your dunking ability? Same here with adding a capacitor to your electrical system.

STILL A GLUTTON FOR MORE PUNISHMENT?

Here's the Original Cap Debate.

www.carsound.com/ubb/Arch...00307.html

Phoenix Gold's marketing guru had just posted information on how their Powercore (basically the Alumapro CAP15 in a Phoenix shell) had both stabilized their voltage and improved the sound quality. Richard called him on it (all in another post) and the marketing geek was unable to quantify any of the conditions that resulted in the voltage being HELD at 14.2V and the 'improved' sound quality.

Please do not read every stinking post as valid. There are a lot of people that have had the efficacy of capacitors inbred to their minds, and were not (and still not) convinced in the futility of a 1 Farad storage device.

In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps ( www.battcap.net ) as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors.

Copied from 3.8mustang forums member: Member02

 

Simply put, a capacitor is meant to store CURRENT aka AMPS...not voltage.. voltage passes through, however, when a stereo puts out a large bass note and the lights dim, that is due to a current drop, not a voltage drop, considering voltage in a dc circuit won't change, if i remember correctly.

Meaning, if the batter puts out 14.5 volts, and the appliances, stereo, a/c, ect, ect require 14.5 volts, the voltage will continuously run steady. However, the amps will change. If you have a 100 amp alternator, it isn't going to dish out 100 amps all over the place all at once, it'd fry everything.

1 farad for every 1 thousand watts, so, you have 4 thousand watt amplifier, then you'd want a 4 farad cap, not including the the wattage of everything that is actually hooked up to the aplifier itself and what sort of power its pulling.

The problem is, is these stereo shops do not know electrical theory or how the **** works, they simply throw things together and tell the customer, who, most likely doesn't know electrical theory ect that "oh ya, you're throwing 6 thousand watts at this, a 1 farad capacitor will work." Which is false.

A voltage drop may actually occur during large bass hits, in order to prevent this, get a second battery and a stronger alternator to actually charge the battery if needed.

Personally, I have a stereo, 1 10 full component system, 1 battery, 1 2 farad capacitor, and a stock alternatory, and no dimming issues. I also have zero issues when I have the stereo on and i play around with the nitrous, which uses solenoids which are hooked into the power system.

Before, with no capacitor and the same setup, the dimming would cause an issue. So what would you call this? An FM circuit? (FM meaning ****** magic.) I woudln't.

If the car had a more complex electrical system such as an AC system that worked off of frequency, harmonics, RLC circuits and various other variables, then it would actually be an issue, but the again the car would probably have a capacitor to help START the car, let alone pump a stereo that'd put out constant sound..

 

So you approve of a cap, search for kinetic batteries and you will find a one that is equivalent to 1000 1 farad caps. Do you run 1000 caps? for 100 dollars?

 

I know about Kinetik. However, to run two batteries, and keep them charged will put a strain on the alternator. So, replace the alternator, get a battery relocation kit, and the Kinetik battery.. seems like quite a bit of hassle for a couple subwoofers, if that when a capacitor can do the job, or atleast help it out some.

These are mustangs, not escalades or tahoes or whatever the hell you're dumping huge stereos into.

Now, do you run 1 Kinetik battery for 100 dollars? When it isn't practical? Then again the cheapest Kinetik battery I can find is 200+ dollars, so, so much for "do you run 1000 capacitors for 100 dollars"

And even then, if I remember correctly, the battery is good for startup, not for running it, which is why two batteries would be needed. If I remember correctly, you can pull the battery out of a car AFTER its been started and be able to run the vehicle until the next time you turn the car off. The seperate battery would work fine for another stereo system, but like I said, a relocation kit, the strain of a stock alternator, and the battery itself would cost more then what some guys spend on their stereos..

 

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...+KHC+600-.html

To many 0s in my number btw, 100 - 1 farad caps.
99.99 so theirs that for you.

Battery relocation kit? no.....

You run 1/0 gauge wire to the positive ends of your starting bat. Up front and your 2nd bat in the trunk.

Ground your 2nd bat in the trunk and run everything for amps off it right there in the back. Shorter wiring and faster power flow.

I have done this with my friends Pontiac Vibe and we have much better alts then that thing does and he has been running 2 12s and a full component set for a year now with no problems on his stock alt.

Running stuff like 4 18s would require larger alts and more batteries and all but for running 2 solid good 12s and a full component set up what I have said works fine.

 

Dude, you're still talking about a freaking mustang......

IT'S NOT A AUDIO CAR!!!!

It's a friggin sports car.

Sometimes people who put big audio systems in a shitty car, or a car it doesn't belong in, is just as bad as putting some ricer Extreme Dimensions body kit on it.

Go buy a Scion, or Tahoe, or some type of SUV/Bigger car and THEN you can start talking technical jumbo. You're wasting your money.

 

Um how am I waisting my money on making great sound quality in my mustang?
I daily drive it. I listen to alot of rock and metal.

Any car can be a audio car.

Ive seen a mustang win the IASCA in daytona's spring break nationals for best SQ performance.

If you want a only race car, take your stereo and air cond. out your back seats carpet etc.

 

It all boils down to preference, and since you obviously dont like better car audio quality in your stang then why are you even in this thread? Just to flame?

This is for the benefit of other members to learn and build a audio system without things going wrong.

 

It's nice that you put all that info up and all, but people don't really come into the audio section all that much.

 

Because this is a mustang forum. Not a major audio forum.

I'm not saying anything about your info, but you contradict yourself.

You want to build a fast six, but then you also want a badass system....

Unless you're totally loaded it'll never happen. Sure it's a good project, but you add to one to take from the other. Sure your sub box is removable. But how about the amp? Or the dynamat? Or when you decide to go bigger you start ******* up your alternator and other components.

It'd be sad for you to drive out to the track and your car not start because your system has destroyed your alternator and battery.


I have a nice audio system in my car. I have two Rockford P3s in stealth boxes with built in amps on either side of my trunk. And all my components have been replaced with Pioneer Premiers. I know what good audio is, I work with Home Audio all day long and have been exposed to it all my life thanks to my heavy rock father always having to have the huge stereo system.

But one thing I do know is power is not gained easily, and installing things like dynamat in the entire car does not help at all. you probably have about 100 lbs of dynamat in that car. I'm pretty sure my mom's fusion could out run your car like it is now.

 

To be completely honest, i blew right past everything you posted and wanted to see someones response. I dont think i would be interested in any of that technical stuff. If I was, i would go to a audio forum.

 

I have a great sound system... 8 tall cylinders, longtubes, borla's. If I need more volume then I press the rightmost rheostat that ford mounted on the floor (sometimes called a gas pedal but it never gives me more gas, it only takes it away). It would seem that the loudness of my system is inversely related to the rate at which the thing drains my tank. Wonder if that's a feature....

 

i like your taste in sound

 

The only sound system worth putting money in......

 

I put it here so you wouldnt have to look for it. Anyone can use the info. Its up to them if they care or not, why you put reasons are beyond me, all I did was post some helpful info and then get flamed... None of you appreciate the fact that maybe just maybe someone that wanted to know something about their car's audio system found this helpful. All the how do I wire my speakers/subs. Build a box big or small. Some of you have systems then why wouldnt you want to know how it might be better made or how it works?

 

Fast as in mid 13s... Thats all Im aiming for.