What do I need to make the Vortech build a reality? - Mustang Boards


Power Adders Technical discussions for forced induction with nitrous and blowers.

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Old 07-31-2011, 11:46 AM
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Question What do I need to make the Vortech build a reality?

I am looking at adding a centrifugal to the car this winter. A Kenne Bell seems out of my price range and final plan for the car and nitrous just doesn't appeal to me. The Vortech blowers do however and I plan to go the route of piecing everything together myself.

I plan on getting the head-unit off Corral or SVTP or perhaps even buying a new one, although a well-maintained, low-mileage used one should be no worry. Only question I have really is what am I looking at for upping the fuel system? I plan to keep the car between 360-380rwhp with no intercooler on stock internals which from what I understand will be no issue. That should put me in the 8 psi range I am assuming; 6 seems like it wouldn't make that much power.

Would 42 pound injectors be good or will 39's suffice? Already narrowed it down to Ford Racing obviously and I know buyfordracing has them going on the cheap. Same with the Lightning MAF. But to make a long story short I'm kind of caught up on the fuel pump. I am almost positive I will need a new pump... I've read somewhere that the stock one hits it's max capacity at 320 or so. I've been reading though and I still don't understand if I need a pump voltage booster like a BAP or a modified FPDM. I've been told to look into a Ford GT or Focus pump.

I'd like to know what the limits for the stock pump are essentially and if I need any of the previously mentioned parts.

Any insight to this small build would be a help also!

Last edited by Kyanbi; 07-31-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 07-31-2011, 12:17 PM
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You will need a new pump. Best to get a SVT Focus pump because they plug right in. The Ford GT supercar pump will require you to cut the stock connector and solder onto the GT pump. 39# and 42# have basically the same output and are good to around 550hp to the wheels. 360 will be doable with 8 psi if you have the supporting mods, TB, plenum, mid pipe and cat back. 370-380 range you will need the above mods with a 3.5"-4" powerpipe. Long tubes of course will solidify the 380 output with the stock 3.6" vortech pulley.

You do not need to modify the FPDM...if you were to run dual pumps you would have to run a 40 amp BAP with modified FPDM to run both pumps. That is the cheap route.

The cheap route with a single pump supercharged mustang is to buy a 20 amp BAP and run the stock pump. I advise against this as it is cheaper to buy the higher flowing SVT focus pump and will hold you over into the 400-430 hp range...mine dropped pressure at 410hp so I needed a BAP but I'm running 11 pounds of boost and my car is a automatic.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:37 PM
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First thing. I'd go intercooled. Many people don't understand how hot a supercharger gets, but when you have high friction like that, and being so close to the engine bay it gets hot real quick. Not to mention the heat the piping will absorb.

An intercooled setup will typically show less boost, but be more consistent due to the stable IATs (intake air temps). Therefore making it an overall setup unless you're just doing one blast down the dragstrip at a time.

Secondly, I have some 42# injectors I'd gladly sell to you real cheap. And you also may have an easier time looking for a dual cobra pump setup, as most Cobra owners like myself will sell the stock pumps to make way for dual FGT pumps, or bigger. May or may not be easier to find than an SVTF pump and a BAP.

8 psi would be a good starting point. IF you go intercooled, then that'll still put you at 350rwhp and making it consistently. Then you can do the rest of the bolt-ons from there and keep making more power. Long tubes would be my recommended first mod, with a plenum and TB being right there. Better air flow in and out equals more power.

Also, you need to think about gears. A centri doesn't make good power except for above 4,000 rpms on a stock block from what I've seen. 4.10s or even 3.73s will make a great difference in a race, if you don't already have them.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:26 PM
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The treadstone intercooler would be the best route to go from ebay with a piping kit. Should be able to put together for a 600-800 or less if you shop smart. Compressing air creates a lot of heat and with a intercooler it will keep the intake charge to around 10-15* above ambient temps. That will allow you to run max timing and have full power run after run while racing.

Dont worry about making less boost. You can pulley down to make up for the lost boost. 08 knows this and probably assumed you will know that too. His horsepower estimate is on the extreme low side of the spectrum with a intercooler. A good intercooled setup with the mods I listed above at 9-10psi will put you in the 390-400hp range. Make sure you get a V2 or SI upgraded V2 Vortech.

03-04 Cobra tank and dual pumps is great and all but for a stock block it is not needed. There is nothing wrong with going overkill on your fuel system and I'm a huge advocate of that but for a bargain shopper a SVT Focus pump is enough. FYI, I just bought a complete 03-04 Cobra tank from a wrecked car for 600 bucks. That is on the expensive side but you can find deals on a hat and tank separately between 400-500 but you will have to reuse your stock GT tank accessories. 300-400 for the tank and around 20-30 bucks for a bare hat and probably 60-80 bucks for both pumps. I only looked for 2 weeks but those items flew off the for sale ads like hot cakes. I say this because personally I wouldnt run dual pumps in a stock GT tank. Just the idea of going WOT while in a soft bend may cause one of the pumps to cavitate and cause a lean condition. Brand new a focus pump and BAP is expensive...I have both, SVTF pump and 20 amp KB BAP, installed in my car right now. They will be out of my car in August/September time frame and for sale. Probably let the setup go for 225. 50 for the pump and 175 for the BAP.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger00 View Post
The treadstone intercooler would be the best route to go from ebay with a piping kit. Should be able to put together for a 600-800 or less if you shop smart. Compressing air creates a lot of heat and with a intercooler it will keep the intake charge to around 10-15* above ambient temps. That will allow you to run max timing and have full power run after run while racing.

Dont worry about making less boost. You can pulley down to make up for the lost boost. 08 knows this and probably assumed you will know that too. His horsepower estimate is on the extreme low side of the spectrum with a intercooler. A good intercooled setup with the mods I listed above at 9-10psi will put you in the 390-400hp range. Make sure you get a V2 or SI upgraded V2 Vortech.

03-04 Cobra tank and dual pumps is great and all but for a stock block it is not needed. There is nothing wrong with going overkill on your fuel system and I'm a huge advocate of that but for a bargain shopper a SVT Focus pump is enough. FYI, I just bought a complete 03-04 Cobra tank from a wrecked car for 600 bucks. That is on the expensive side but you can find deals on a hat and tank separately between 400-500 but you will have to reuse your stock GT tank accessories. 300-400 for the tank and around 20-30 bucks for a bare hat and probably 60-80 bucks for both pumps. I only looked for 2 weeks but those items flew off the for sale ads like hot cakes. I say this because personally I wouldnt run dual pumps in a stock GT tank. Just the idea of going WOT while in a soft bend may cause one of the pumps to cavitate and cause a lean condition. Brand new a focus pump and BAP is expensive...I have both, SVTF pump and 20 amp KB BAP, installed in my car right now. They will be out of my car in August/September time frame and for sale. Probably let the setup go for 225. 50 for the pump and 175 for the BAP.
That is a definite good deal for the pumps IMO.

And yes, pulleying to make up for the lost boost will get you back up to that near-400rwhp mark. I thought I threw that in there, but I guess I got so carried on it must've slipped.

I would also advise getting a V2 and the SI-version if you could. Much more quiet, and more efficient as well than the V1s or other V2s.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:51 PM
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Still highly debating this whole idea. Nitrous has came strongly into my mind recently but I do like the idea of doing this right once and never filling anything up over and over again.

Only solid question I have left is the longevity of my engine (more specifically the bottom end) and the transmission. I'm aware of what the RWHP "limit" is for my stock non-forged bottom end and to be honest, after some thought, I'd like to stay on the *very* safe side and hover around 350 to the wheels with the best tune I can possibly get as I know that is the key.

What am I going to be looking at as far as RWTQ numbers with 350 HP to the wheel? I can't seem to find any solid dyno graphs on the net here. I understand a little bit how the torque limit is set for transmissions as far as HP being rated at 5252 RPM and that the input shaft is the weakest link so I need to know what I'm looking at. I drive the car like a god damn old man. Only comes out on mostly weekends and nice sunny days. I'm *that* guy and I don't care. Have barely put a thousand miles on the car this year but it needs a little more get up and I'm really wrapping my head around a centri. Point being, most of my "fun" is doing highway pulls or short rips down backroads from 2 gear on up. I granny shift 99% of the time and am A-ok with upgrading the clutch I just want to keep the car mostly stock as far as driveability and form and likewise am not too interested in dropping in a TKO or T56.

I've done my research but I just need some tidbits from the real world. Searches only tell so much.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kyanbi View Post
Still highly debating this whole idea. Nitrous has came strongly into my mind recently but I do like the idea of doing this right once and never filling anything up over and over again.

Only solid question I have left is the longevity of my engine (more specifically the bottom end) and the transmission. I'm aware of what the RWHP "limit" is for my stock non-forged bottom end and to be honest, after some thought, I'd like to stay on the *very* safe side and hover around 350 to the wheels with the best tune I can possibly get as I know that is the key.

What am I going to be looking at as far as RWTQ numbers with 350 HP to the wheel? I can't seem to find any solid dyno graphs on the net here. I understand a little bit how the torque limit is set for transmissions as far as HP being rated at 5252 RPM and that the input shaft is the weakest link so I need to know what I'm looking at. I drive the car like a god damn old man. Only comes out on mostly weekends and nice sunny days. I'm *that* guy and I don't care. Have barely put a thousand miles on the car this year but it needs a little more get up and I'm really wrapping my head around a centri. Point being, most of my "fun" is doing highway pulls or short rips down backroads from 2 gear on up. I granny shift 99% of the time and am A-ok with upgrading the clutch I just want to keep the car mostly stock as far as driveability and form and likewise am not too interested in dropping in a TKO or T56.

I've done my research but I just need some tidbits from the real world. Searches only tell so much.
You'll probably blow the transmission before your motor if below 400rwhp/rwtq. Don't need to worry about that at all IMO. Just make sure you have a VERY good tune, I cannot stress it enough. Make sure you have the right plugs for your application, a VERY good fuel system (don't go for the minimum, you hit fuel cut mid pull and it could end up with piston pieces all over the road), and gauges to watch the appropriate areas. I would definitely watch your fuel pump/injector duty cycle, and intake air temps after the centri. At least for the first few weeks of driving it with the blower (can use your tuner to watch these).

The trans SHOULD be okay. The only thing is the factory clutch, which you've already covered. Everything else should be okay with the amount of mileage your car has, and the not-so-outrageous power you'll be looking at. I'd definitely keep a clutch in the budget though, but you also need to realize a clutch that is meant to hold more power is also going to rob from driveability. The only way around this is with a twin-disc clutch. Which is fantastic, trust me, but sometimes I don't really think it is worth the usually outrageous cost associated with it. But I have nothing to compare to other than my stock clutch so can't complain too much.

Just make sure you have extra budget for the little things. Good tune, plugs, clutch, etc. Then you should be good.
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Old 10-03-2011, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kyanbi View Post
I drive the car like a god damn old man. Only comes out on mostly weekends and nice sunny days. I'm *that* guy and I don't care. Have barely put a thousand miles on the car this year but it needs a little more get up and I'm really wrapping my head around a centri. Point being, most of my "fun" is doing highway pulls or short rips down backroads from 2 gear on up.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 08mustang_gt View Post
You'll probably blow the transmission before your motor if below 400rwhp/rwtq. Don't need to worry about that at all IMO. Just make sure you have a VERY good tune, I cannot stress it enough.
Like I said, I have been toying around with the idea of nitrous but I am still damn dead-set on a Vortech build or lately a Procharger setup. Regardless, say I go nitrous. Dustin made 362/461 on a 125 shot if I am not mistaken (and even underrated at that). That puts me at 542 lb. ft. of torque at the crank. The 3650 is rated at 360 which is why I am still asking the same question over again. I understand with my driving it should last a lot longer than someone who street/strips the car and/or beats on it, but that is still a hella lot of damn torque lol. I'm confused because I've never heard of anyone having transmission problems on a stock longblock/bolt-on car with a 100 or even a 125 shot.

Explain? I'm lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08mustang_gt View Post
The trans SHOULD be okay. The only thing is the factory clutch, which you've already covered. Everything else should be okay with the amount of mileage your car has, and the not-so-outrageous power you'll be looking at.
Again confused. You said above I don't need to worry about it at all then you switch it up to the transmission should be ok. Not trying to flame you out here but I'm just trying to get my facts straight. Obviously everything is hit and miss once power is added or you beat on the car. What would be on the list of parts that go? Input shaft is the weak point from what I've gathered but is that more of a problem from launching the car with the RPM's up? What about a nice easy roll-on on the freeway? Just looking into what I'm getting myself in to. The car is much too pristine to be blowing the transmission at just over 26k on the clock.

Last edited by Kyanbi; 10-07-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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