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  #31  
Old 04-30-2009, 02:45 PM
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I am all for the quick and painless cure for terrorists... a slug to the forehead.

I agree with Jack I don't care what they know if they are proven to be a terrorist be done with it. Hell I'll pull the trigger if no one else wants to do it

I'm also pissed at how many people sit on death row for years

It cost between 40 to 90K a year for a person to sit on death row.

I'm don't know from experience but I think a bullet in the right spot is probably the most painless way to die

bullets are cheap

death row should be a 1 night stay in a tiny cell with 1 good meal a couple shots of jack and 1 shot in the forehead
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazerred6 View Post
I am all for the quick and painless cure for terrorists... a slug to the forehead.

I agree with Jack I don't care what they know if they are proven to be a terrorist be done with it. Hell I'll pull the trigger if no one else wants to do it

I'm also pissed at how many people sit on death row for years

It cost between 40 to 90K a year for a person to sit on death row.

I'm don't know from experience but I think a bullet in the right spot is probably the most painless way to die

bullets are cheap

death row should be a 1 night stay in a tiny cell with 1 good meal a couple shots of jack and 1 shot in the forehead
Yeah death row is pretty damn ridiculous. There is only one prison in Cali that you can be put to death and it's San Quentin. I believe almost half of the inmates or so is on death row and then they complain about prisons being over filled. Easy fix for that.
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  #33  
Old 04-30-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerred6 View Post
I am all for the quick and painless cure for terrorists... a slug to the forehead.

I agree with Jack I don't care what they know if they are proven to be a terrorist be done with it. Hell I'll pull the trigger if no one else wants to do it

I'm also pissed at how many people sit on death row for years

It cost between 40 to 90K a year for a person to sit on death row.

I'm don't know from experience but I think a bullet in the right spot is probably the most painless way to die

bullets are cheap

death row should be a 1 night stay in a tiny cell with 1 good meal a couple shots of jack and 1 shot in the forehead
It sucks that some people are on death row and are innocent. DNA should be used in ALL capital punishments cases these days.

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Originally Posted by 00blkstanggt View Post
Most of these "terrorists" that are caught and tortured are usually just little pawns. Do you really think they know much of the "master" plan? They were probably told by someone else to strap this bomb on your back or go kill these people without really knowing what it was for. It's just what they were brought up believing so they go along with it. They probably could not tell you any such major targets or anything about "head" terrorists.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is no pawn, he is the mastermind behind 9/11.
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2009, 03:24 PM
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This is by far a controversial subject, but I don't think its one of the things Obama needs to worry about now. Much bigger things are on his plate now, unfortunately.
Unfortunately he does have to worry about it because I'm pretty sure the previous administration said they weren't doing it and then went around the world preaching about morals and humane treatment...blah blah blah.

By the way, I'm pro death penalty just so you know I'm not some hippie Kali dude. ha ha ha. The difference is people who get the dealth penalty have been convicted of a horrible crime and it was proven (most of the time). If you want to capture terrorists and it was proven in a court of law they did horrible **** and you want to kill them....fine by me.

Last edited by jjtgiants; 04-30-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2009, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jjtgiants View Post
Unfortunately he does have to worry about it because I'm pretty sure the previous administration said they weren't doing it and then went around the world preaching about morals and humane treatment...blah blah blah.

By the way, I'm pro death penalty just so you know I'm not some hippie Kali dude. ha ha ha. The difference is people who get the dealth penalty have been convicted of a horrible crime and it was proven (most of the time). If you want to capture terrorists and it was proven in a court of law they did horrible **** and you want to kill them....fine by me.
I wouldn't mind if he somehow found an alternative way and not reduced our nation's security. I'm pretty sure the previous administration had your and my best interests (keeping us all safe) in mind when decisions were made. It's not like the Bush administration was the first administration to keep something confidental. All presidents have to do it.

He is our president, but I was saying it shouldn't be one of his top priorities right now. Don't look now because we are losing in Afghanistan now.


And I never thought you were a hippie, lol.

Last edited by PistonsFan102; 04-30-2009 at 03:43 PM.
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  #36  
Old 04-30-2009, 07:19 PM
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The whole point of trying to get intel out of the little fish is so that we know which big fish told them to strap the bomb on. The same thing goes for druggies. Most druggies just buy the drugs, but after interrogation, they spit out who sold it. Then, they interrogate that dealer in which they find out who supplies him. Then they take down the supplier. This is how you find out who's in charge, by working your way up from the foot soldier to the general. Then you take out the general and chaos ensues. The rest is then easy.

As for the doubters, if torture doesn't work, why has it been used in gathering intel for so long (since our existence)? Sure the person may spew out false information, but if they are detained and the guys come back after finding out the intel was false, you think they want to be tortured again? I will say this again, no matter what your beliefs are on this matter, you need to shut up, bite your tongue, and let the military/CIA do what it has to. This is their job and they know how to gather intel better than us. If someone knows better, they need to take over as CIA head (which at this point, anyone is more competent than Pedeta).
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  #37  
Old 04-30-2009, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bassman97 View Post
The whole point of trying to get intel out of the little fish is so that we know which big fish told them to strap the bomb on. The same thing goes for druggies. Most druggies just buy the drugs, but after interrogation, they spit out who sold it. Then, they interrogate that dealer in which they find out who supplies him. Then they take down the supplier. This is how you find out who's in charge, by working your way up from the foot soldier to the general. Then you take out the general and chaos ensues. The rest is then easy.

As for the doubters, if torture doesn't work, why has it been used in gathering intel for so long (since our existence)? Sure the person may spew out false information, but if they are detained and the guys come back after finding out the intel was false, you think they want to be tortured again? I will say this again, no matter what your beliefs are on this matter, you need to shut up, bite your tongue, and let the military/CIA do what it has to. This is their job and they know how to gather intel better than us. If someone knows better, they need to take over as CIA head (which at this point, anyone is more competent than Pedeta).
No offence, i really dont mean this personally or to be insulting, but did you actually take time to read what you just wrote? yes, the CIA and Homeland security DO know how to get intelligence, and they know damn good and well that torture is not going to provide dogshit compared to the cost of following up on false leads, and is one of the most unreliable sources of intel available. That is why it has been abandonded by just about every cilvilized culture.

You speak as if that is the only method for gathering intelligence. there are COUNTLESS far more effective methods.

the reason torture is so SELDOM used is because it has consistantly provided false information. Im not sure what planet you live on where torture is a normal everyday thing in civilized cultures. For the most part by most countries and civilizations it is a barbaric thing of the past that is no longer used because it doesent work for ****.


And yeah, it is easy to flip a meth-head because they are driven by thier addiction, the dealers are easy to flip because they are driven by greed and thier own personal welfare. Of course they will flip on thier suppliers.

That is because they are not religious ******* radicals who believe that if they give any information to the "infadels" that they wont get into heaven, thier view on life in this world has absolutly NOTHING to do with self preservation, it is all geared towards spiritual preservation. The more [pain they withstand they better they are treated in the afterworld, and they believed with every bit as much conviction as you believe your car has an engine in it. In thier mind they know this for fact. it is not a maatter of faith to them, to them it is a simple obvious reality.

You cant compare greedy methaddicts with strong instincts for self preservation with religious holy-war jihadists that have absolutly no value in thier own lives and eagerly welcome the opportunity to prove themselves to allah so they can reap the rewards in the afterlife.

Interrogation is all fine, but torture has ALWAYS proven to be a poor method of obtaining information.

As for the "I will say this again, no matter what your beliefs are on this matter, you need to shut up, bite your tongue, and let the military/CIA do what it has to."...

Well my grandfathers, uncles, father, mother, and myself are all veterans. I cant help but find that statement really offencive.
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  #38  
Old 05-01-2009, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JackThe Ripper View Post
No offence, i really dont mean this personally or to be insulting, but did you actually take time to read what you just wrote? yes, the CIA and Homeland security DO know how to get intelligence, and they know damn good and well that torture is not going to provide dogshit compared to the cost of following up on false leads, and is one of the most unreliable sources of intel available. That is why it has been abandonded by just about every cilvilized culture.

You speak as if that is the only method for gathering intelligence. there are COUNTLESS far more effective methods.

the reason torture is so SELDOM used is because it has consistantly provided false information. Im not sure what planet you live on where torture is a normal everyday thing in civilized cultures. For the most part by most countries and civilizations it is a barbaric thing of the past that is no longer used because it doesent work for ****.


And yeah, it is easy to flip a meth-head because they are driven by thier addiction, the dealers are easy to flip because they are driven by greed and thier own personal welfare. Of course they will flip on thier suppliers.

That is because they are not religious ******* radicals who believe that if they give any information to the "infadels" that they wont get into heaven, thier view on life in this world has absolutly NOTHING to do with self preservation, it is all geared towards spiritual preservation. The more [pain they withstand they better they are treated in the afterworld, and they believed with every bit as much conviction as you believe your car has an engine in it. In thier mind they know this for fact. it is not a maatter of faith to them, to them it is a simple obvious reality.

You cant compare greedy methaddicts with strong instincts for self preservation with religious holy-war jihadists that have absolutly no value in thier own lives and eagerly welcome the opportunity to prove themselves to allah so they can reap the rewards in the afterlife.

Interrogation is all fine, but torture has ALWAYS proven to be a poor method of obtaining information.

As for the "I will say this again, no matter what your beliefs are on this matter, you need to shut up, bite your tongue, and let the military/CIA do what it has to."...

Well my grandfathers, uncles, father, mother, and myself are all veterans. I cant help but find that statement really offencive.
And you believe that no one does torture but us. Everyone tortures, problem is for some reason, it's public in the US. You think the French didn't torture in Vietnam? You think the Spanish didn't after Madrid? No one is a saint, just we failed at hiding that illusion.

Now, I respect your family, especially since I have an uncle who's been to Iraq twice. However, I fail to find my statement offensive, especially considering what politicians do to undermine the military. Washington was screwed by Congress during the revolution, Madison by certain states who didn't want to help until the British landed, Lincoln by those who wanted to let the south go, Westmoreland by those who wouldn't let him take care of the Ho-Chi-Minh trail, and I can go on. If the military is going to be effective, they need to control want needs to be done. The military knows how to fight, and politicians know how to negotiate. The last thing you want is for either to swap roles. That's when you start having problems, either w/ a military dictatorship or emperor, respectively.

Let's not forget that Bush had nothing to do w/ implementing torture (outright). This was thought out by both the CIA and military (I believe the water board creators where Air Force doctors) in which Bush simply let them do what they had to. If torture doesn't work, I would tend to believe the CIA wouldn't waste their time on false leads. However, they implemented it and it must be for a good reason. I am generally skeptical of anything coming from the government, but I don't think the CIA is willing to waste time on techniques that only waste their time.

Now, if I offended/disrespected you, I apologize. I don't mean to do so. I am however, sick of all those who act on empty principles to undermine our military. Sherman once said "War is hell." The only way to end a war is to show it in its true colors. Politicians try to cover that up, and in the end, it only shoots us in the foot.
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  #39  
Old 05-01-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bassman97 View Post
And you believe that no one does torture but us. Everyone tortures, problem is for some reason, it's public in the US. You think the French didn't torture in Vietnam? You think the Spanish didn't after Madrid? No one is a saint, just we failed at hiding that illusion.

Now, I respect your family, especially since I have an uncle who's been to Iraq twice. However, I fail to find my statement offensive, especially considering what politicians do to undermine the military. Washington was screwed by Congress during the revolution, Madison by certain states who didn't want to help until the British landed, Lincoln by those who wanted to let the south go, Westmoreland by those who wouldn't let him take care of the Ho-Chi-Minh trail, and I can go on. If the military is going to be effective, they need to control want needs to be done. The military knows how to fight, and politicians know how to negotiate. The last thing you want is for either to swap roles. That's when you start having problems, either w/ a military dictatorship or emperor, respectively.

Let's not forget that Bush had nothing to do w/ implementing torture (outright). This was thought out by both the CIA and military (I believe the water board creators where Air Force doctors) in which Bush simply let them do what they had to. If torture doesn't work, I would tend to believe the CIA wouldn't waste their time on false leads. However, they implemented it and it must be for a good reason. I am generally skeptical of anything coming from the government, but I don't think the CIA is willing to waste time on techniques that only waste their time.

Now, if I offended/disrespected you, I apologize. I don't mean to do so. I am however, sick of all those who act on empty principles to undermine our military. Sherman once said "War is hell." The only way to end a war is to show it in its true colors. Politicians try to cover that up, and in the end, it only shoots us in the foot.
i still disagree that torture should be used, but that is a very well said reply.

i guess i like my torture swept under the rug, at least that way we are acknowledging that it is wrong but hiding the fact it is done. When we put it in the forefront we are basically condoning such actions, and while we will always have our little dirty secrets, i prefer them to be secrets.
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  #40  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:50 AM
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I agree too, I never said that it should be open. I think the idiot in the government that made it public should be shot. This is a case where if it's made public, it should be condemned but if it's still in the bag, to secretly condone it.
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:17 PM
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Can we first define torture? I think ANY civil person would say torture is wrong and reprehensible...especially if it is done for no purpose at all. But, using aggressive interrigation techniques to get important information may not be torture. I think you have to consider the act and the context, before you can say something is torture.

Let's say two guy break in your house and take your 8 year old daughter. One guy gets caught and you find out that the second guy is a convicted child rapist and killer who escpapred from jail...he still has your daughter. There is evidence that the first guy knows where your daughter is.

To what extent would you be willing to go to extract information?

Making a claim that "water boarding is always wrong and contitutes torture" is not logical...it makes no sense. Not, unless you can understand the context.

People who are willing to hang Bush et al for these techniques are doing so with no regard for the context and the information that may have been obtained. We poured water on their heads, we played loud music...but the acts were done in the presence of doctors and there has not been any evidence provided regarding timelines.

For those of you that think the "context" argument is flawed, consider this. Killing is considered just and legal during war, but murder is not....sometimes even during war. You can shoot an enemy soldier, but you can't capture him and then just shoot him.

Perhaps we should have just killed them as enemy combatants, then we would not have to have this discussion....and perhaps left with another attack.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2009, 10:39 PM
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Great points Blake. 100% Agree.

And welcome back.
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  #43  
Old 06-11-2009, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WaterDR View Post
Can we first define torture? I think ANY civil person would say torture is wrong and reprehensible...especially if it is done for no purpose at all. But, using aggressive interrigation techniques to get important information may not be torture. I think you have to consider the act and the context, before you can say something is torture.

Let's say two guy break in your house and take your 8 year old daughter. One guy gets caught and you find out that the second guy is a convicted child rapist and killer who escpapred from jail...he still has your daughter. There is evidence that the first guy knows where your daughter is.

To what extent would you be willing to go to extract information?

Making a claim that "water boarding is always wrong and contitutes torture" is not logical...it makes no sense. Not, unless you can understand the context.

People who are willing to hang Bush et al for these techniques are doing so with no regard for the context and the information that may have been obtained. We poured water on their heads, we played loud music...but the acts were done in the presence of doctors and there has not been any evidence provided regarding timelines.

For those of you that think the "context" argument is flawed, consider this. Killing is considered just and legal during war, but murder is not....sometimes even during war. You can shoot an enemy soldier, but you can't capture him and then just shoot him.

Perhaps we should have just killed them as enemy combatants, then we would not have to have this discussion....and perhaps left with another attack.
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. Then again I am just a cop, lol
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  #44  
Old 06-11-2009, 09:05 PM
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a sea of glass would remedy the situation. islamic terrorists wont stop their BS until everyone on earth is a radical muslim.

torture is a waste of resources.
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