Anybody out there think about retirement and if it is even possible for the new generation workforce?

I look at the housing market, tons of forclosures and overpriced worthless property, consumers are scared to make big commitments. Stocks are declining which is doing heavy damage to 401k's and people are literally losing tens of thousands every month.

people are now looking at cashing in thier 401k's to eliminate debts because of a general lack of belief that thier 401k will ever actually be worth anything. Its a sad state of affairs honestly.

One3 of my goals for this year is to eliminate all debt aside from my mortgage. The scary thing is i know what my house would appraise for, but i doubt i could sell the house for anything more than 30k below appraisal.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

sometimes i feel that it doesent matter what i do, that i will be working pretty much untill i die of old age.

 

Great questions.....I think about it a lot.....

First off, you can't look at the past few years and predict the future. The economy and housing costs is cyclical. We have had a complete role reversal with Canada the past few years. They are now laughing at us as their economy is booming. They were in the tanker a few years ago.

I feel bad for folks in their 20's these days. First off, jobs don't pay ****. I will give you an example. My first job after graduating college and leaving the Navy (4 years) paid $65k the first year (that was in 1994). I had total benefits....paid for nothing and bought my first house when I was 25. It was a 2500 square foot, 3 year old house. I had no help from parents.....none. The house was $150k.

How many of you guys at that age now can say that? Most of you live at home with parents and many of you will for a long time because you are in debt up to your asses in college loans, houses are expensive, and medical insurance is high. It is REALLY hard to get started these days.

The average college student graduates $45k in debt now and I bet starting salaries have not hardly risen at all since 1994. In fact, adjusted for inflation and other costs, they have most likely decreased.

The housing market is simply adjusting from years of people borrowing against them to pay for life styles that they should not be living in the first place. Newsflash....if any of you have a car loan more then 5% of your gross income, your are way too much in debt for a car. These are not my rules, but from financial planning experts.

Houses have decreased, but there are some signs that some areas have improved. I own a second house near Mystic, CT. It appraised for $20k more last month then it did 2 years prior AND appraisers are now more conservative.

Some of you may be now upside down on your house.....so what? So long as you can pay the mortgage, continue paying it. You have to live somewhere, just like you need to drive a car. Sooner or later, things will come back....first slowly, then this will all seem like a distant memory.

There is one saving grace. There is a major labor shortage looming on the horizon. I just had a meeting with our CEO today. We are a $5 Billion in annual sales and the company has identified one of our biggest challenges to meeting our future growth requirements as manning.

The experts are predicting that labor shortages will ultimately drive labor costs up especially in certain job classifications. This will actually create situations where some women will leave the workforce because their husbands now make enough, creating even a bigger problem.

The way the situation gets resolved is:

1 - Outsource overseas
2 - Automation
3 - Flexible workplaces

All three factors will and already are taking place.

All in all, I remain hopefully optimistic, but I think the next few years won't be our best.

My 401k is down 8.5% this year. Not good, but far from a crisis. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

Dunno. I'm not old enough to know much of this stuff..

Luckily I got myself into something where my retirement is set (Not in a 401K)
I'm 19, by 22-23 I'll make enough to buy a house.

I'll work some long hours, and it'll be some intense manual labor, but many guys have pulled it off and done it well.

The union I work for has set up their own retirement plan, which will actually pay me better then a 401K.

Unfortunately, I only started out at $14 something an hour, but I have full benefits. By the end of it I'll make something like 42 an hour locally, but I plan on going up to San Jose and working, which will increase my benefits through their local, pay is about 35-40 dollars more there, and theres big raises in the near future for the entire union.

 

last week i just sold 410 shares in BCE. (Bell Canada Enterprises)

need school money

 

Damn, 65k back during the great depression?

snap. lol

Yah i really lucked out in many ways. I was horrible in highschool, so i joined the USAF and they taught me telecom, my first job out of the AF was for about 55k a year, and i have steadily risen every year for the past 7 years.

A lot off my co workers are also ex military, some of my co workers actually got degrees in telecom, and it doesent earn them a dime more or help on thier resume whatsoever. However they have 30-40 thousand in student loans to pay off.

The house i have while not nearly as well designed and constructed as your new home or lances home is still pretty darn nice for the size and age it is. I have about 2,300 sqft ranch style, but im paying 225,000. i have been paying 4 years now and i still owe 215,000. Ugh


As far as going to college for 4 years and breaking 50k a year.... GOOD LUCK. Aint gonna happen 99% of the time, most college grads with bachelors are lucky to break 35k on thier first job.

Im a big advocate of technical schools and trade schools. Im not much for taking classes of stuff non-related to the goal, i do believe in a well rounded education, but i also think it is something you can achieve yourself without the requirements of taking 18th century russian literature classes.

Honestly, unless yer gonna be a doctor, laywer, or politician, college doesent seem like that great of an idea anymore, not enough pay in it.

One of my closest friends and godfather of my son, started oput working at the same company i am at as a customer service rep (phone jockey) and now he is a tech on the transport side of the house, he will break 60k this year, full medical and dental benefits, 401k, flex spending, etc, etc. has no college education.

My buddy creigan, no college education, just got his CCNA and got picked up by IBM as a customer service rep (he is basically the bitch of thier large scale companys, he is a direct interface for only 3 major customers), he will break 50k this next year, he has less than 1 year of schooling for his CCNA.

My buddy Justin, went to work for verizon a while back in orange county, breaks 65k-70k a year, he has his CCNA and the next level up, been doping it now for 7 years. No college

Myself, i broke 80k and i have no college, just military training on telecommubnications, my co workers all average 50-80k a year and very few have college. Most of us have been here for years, ive been with this company for 7 years and i know i can get another job at the drop of a hat in almost any telecom company out there. (mostly because they expect a lot more out of us here)


Then i have a friend Jen, 4 year degree, maybe gertting 30k a year as a techer
My friend Ian, will maybe break 40k next year, 4 year degree as well

my brother, bachelors degree, took him 4-5 years to break the 50k mark, i still make more than him i believe and he is a project manager at dell. lol.


All in all, college has the "POTENTIAL" to pay out a lot more later down the road, but honestly, i would rather make bank now, and STILL be able to go to college, or even swap to another technical dicipline in less than a year and know i will be making a buttload of money


college never made sence to me. takes 4 years to graduate, you have 35,000 in debt afterwards, and probably wont break 50 grand within the next 10 years.

 

I agree with Jack to a certain degree. I think they need to rethink the college structure. I feel there would be a higher success rate if you went to college for two years and just focused on your major, but colleges want to rape you with costs and take all your money. I'm not done with college yet, but I'm working on it. I'm making decent money right now with a good company, good boss, and only room to grow. I have full benefits that are paid (benefits of working for a major hospital), don't have to clock in, can work from home when I feel like it.

Anyways, I think pay depends a lot on the job and location. I know you can make good money with a company without a degree, but sometimes you can only advance so far. Teachers in my area are starting between like $45k-52k.My fiance's father doesn't have a degree and makes 6 figures a year plus commision and does the most sales for his company, but he will probably never become a VP or anything like that because of the degree. Sometimes I see the point of having one and other times I don't. It definitely depends on what you want to do with your life. It's much harder these days to get houses and all that. My fiance and I are lucky to be buying our first house at 26 years old. Of course all you bastards outside of California get bigger houses for the money, but I'll be satisifed with owning.

 

I somewhat agree, however I'm currently in the market for a career change and it seems like my Bachelor's degree isn't enough anymore. I should have stayed in school and went for my masters. Now I have a mortgage and bills so I can't afford to go back to school.

I was very lucky my parents could afford to put me through college and when I graduated I had 0 debt, which is rare these days. I have mixed feelings about tech/trade schools. I think they are great if a person is dead set on what they want to do, but if they decide to move out of that specific career and enter into another career while mingling with a pool of candidates that have the same experience, but went to a major 4 year University it's going to be hard for them to compete in my opinion.

Things are tough for people right now. All I know is that I've had it with my job and I'm ready to leave Cali.

 

it IS pretty direct sometimes on the job role that will be had with tech training, i dont think that somone with a 4 year degree in this type of work has much of an edge though. my experience (while not overly vast as ive been in the same place for a while) is they are more concerned about working experience than degrees.

College definatly offers a more rounded education, but i think unless you are aiming for a masters a person would be more financially secure with more immediate monetary compensation with more specialized technical training.

Im not against going to college, but i dont think i will ever do much more in college than take occasionall classes that interest me.

as far as growth in the career field which somone mentioned, the most harm of lacking a degree will be if somone is trying to get into management of some sort.

Right now i work in maintenance, i fix network troubles and such. The only places i could go would be into engineering, which might be nice but it is easier to get laid off there... i could go into the test + turnup group where they do the initual service builds, however, that is more of data entry. I think maintenance is about the most challanging for my career field...

 

Don't put your eggs in the Union basket. Beware believing ANYONE that takes money from you.

 

College is not for everyone, nor should it be. But don't let a few examples teach you to go against the odds. It is statistically proven that the more education you have, the more money you make. Also, many jobs that offer solid wages now, offer no room for advancement later.

Keep in mind while trade schools have good potential, the averages fro college grads are diluted by some people with stupid-*** majors etc...

As far as income, I would rather have tech degree from a solid program, then a theater or english degrees from the University of Sloan Island - lol.

BUT, if you have a solid undergrad degree from a good school and an MBA, the average income is well over 100K for these folks all day long.

In all honestly, I think we will see some parity between college grads and trade school degrees in the next few years as the labor force dwindles, BUT professional people such as myself also can earn money in different ways. For example, besides my salary, we have agressive bonus programs, advancement, 401k with a match, and a full company paid pension. Not to mention, that as a manager, I will be eligible for stock options in a few years. AND, I have never belonged to a union.

Look, PLEASE do not think for a minute that I knocking the trades. No way....no how. I think this is a great way to go for lots of people. I wish I had more hands-on experience and I would promote it for my kids if it makes sense for them.

Whatever you do, if you want to make money, you need a skill. No matter if it is using your head, or your hands. Most people nee to do both.

 

kindda need those 30-50k guys to keep american rolling
slota long posts here didnt read all of it

 

Nothing wrong with the military either.

 

they have been giving me stock options since i signed up with the company, lol.

Yah 401k matched to 5% gross, medical, dental, vision, flex accounts, life insurance, bonus programs, etc.

Some tech jobs like mine CAN break 100k a year, the base pay maxes at 37.50 per hour, add 7,000 shift differential and some 1.5 OT and 2.5x holiday pay, it can be done with just a few extra hours a week once you cap out which i have not yet done on pay. I still have several raises to go before i hit 37 bucks. lol

a lot of tech-school jobs though probably wont make it much past 50k a year though and yeah, they dont offer much room for growth.

However, not all tech jobs are equal, that is fore sure. And anyone who is expecting to break 50k a year doing any vocational tech job, well, just take what those commercials of the potential earning power with a grain of salt, my job is a rare exception, and you wont see any commercials to learn this stuff during maury povich on daytime tv

The job im in, well, damn. Lets put it this way, most telecom companys will use 1 major switching platform, and they have thier techs specialized to learn either the proactive or reactive side. And it takes literally YEARS for a tech to get up to speed on just one aspect of the system. They have many different groups that handle different roles.

Well, here, i have to work both sides of not only one, but FOUR class 5 switching platforms plus our class 4 VOIP switching network, as well as the entire signalling systems that get them all to work together. Throw in our Voicemail systems, conferencing systems, 1-800 network, and all of that, i preform what was normally about 15-20 different jobs at AT&T, MCI, QWEST, ICG, etc....

And i RULE at it. Lol. Im GLAD we get to work on everything, i love the total control i have of a trouble and the fact i dont have to rely on other people to provide bits of information. Ive been doing telecommunications now for 12 years and i STILL learn something new every day. Most of the people who cant handle it have been weeded out a long time ago and i work with the best group of telecom techs in the world, hands down, no doubt. Every time we hire a new hotshot from qwest or at&t or from another company they come in thinking they know thier **** (which they do, that one part of it), then after seeing what all we work on they usually get extremly overwhelmed and many times throw in the towel within a month. lol.


It is definatly one of the hardest technical jobs out there, it doestn matter how smart or educated you are, you really have to have a very strong talent for fixing things. And that is WHY we can eventually hit the triple digit mark.

Same goes for IP networking, those guys can also hit 6 digit income.


But a LOT of the stuff you see on daytime TV, dental tech, x-ray tech, etc, etc, they claim tons of money but most of them start out at 40k a year and end at 50k a year with no real advancement.

im lucky in that aspect, i could switch to engineering, or tier2, or whatnot, and even go higher, however i really enjoy what i do here and dont wanna stop yet. Plus, layoffs usually trim the fat in other departments, our maintenance department is pretty lean as it is. lol. better job security.


as far as management opportunities, we have some techs who eventually became directors and such, personally, if i cannot have full controll of everyone then i dont want to be responsible for anyone but myself. lol

 

sorry i get long winded sometimes. believe it or not, a lot of my stuff is shortened up from the origional, i can nail out about 130 words per minute (not the best accuracy obviously lol) and next thing i know i have 3 pages of crap that needs to be shortened. lol

 

That's not what your wife says! ha ha ha

 

Funny, all you need to do is live in a neighborhood for a while to see who makes what. Over the years, this what I have learned.

Low-priced neighborhoods are generally full of unemployed people and various blue-collar folks. As housing prices increase, the blue color jobs jobs pay more, and then you begin to sprinkle the neighborhoods with white color folks.

As housing prices increase further, there is a higher percentage of while color positions and professional positions and you eventually get to the point where you won't find any single blue color person. I can't say this fact, but it is my observation after owning houses for nearly 20 years.

Then, a funny thing happens. As prices get higher, you begin to run into a different crowd.....those that simply just have money. Some inherited, while many others own their own businesses and it does not matter if it is a large mechanical contractor or a law firm. You begin to return a bit more to a mix of blue vs white backgrounds.

As far as stock options are concerned, you should be wary to work for a company that gives options to everyone. Options are cheap to give away....but it floods the market with stock and devalues it. Solid companies limit this option to a select group....usually those in potion to increase the value of the shares. When these people benefit, so do all the other share holders which are often low-paid positions too with stock in their 401ks. Good companies by and large, do not give options to the workforce. If they do, they are probably limiting the options they give to managers to prevent having too many. This si good or bad depending on you vantage point.

 

Here you go, these are real figures:

If you have a HS degree ONLY, you will earn $1.2M in a lifetime
If you have a bachelors degree, you will earn $2.1M in a lifetime
..................Masters degree, .....................$2.5M..............
..................PHD............................. .........$3.4M..............
..................Prfessional Degree...................$4.4M.............

These are averages naturally.

 

Lol....

Im a technician at Time Warner Telecom, the company has done nothing short of kick *** and take names. Even after 9/11 and all our competitors went belly up we not only outlasted them but thrived. Allegance, ICG, Level3, they all still have issues. We actually just bought another company and we have a solid nationwide network. Most of my co workers have been here about as long as i have, which is 7 years. Good luck finding that at ICG, level 3, or any of the others. There is not another telecom company out there i would feel better about working for. Our CEO Larissa actually has loyalty to her employees which is a hard thing to find nowadays, several times qwest has offered to buy our network, and each time the people in charge basically told them to shove thier golden parachutes up thier asses.

I am sure you diddnt mean it that way, but them offering me stock options isnt exactly them offering "anyone" stock options.

I'm not just blowing smoke up when i talk about the stuff i work on, The stuff i do you cant just go to a school and learn within a few years. If i were to leave, even if they got another seasoned sharp tech with 8 years of experience udner his beld to fill in my role, it would be 3-4 years untill they would be able to handle the stuff i work on as well as i do. I work with other techs in other companies, and there are a lot of times where i have spoken to a tech with 20+ years at at&t and he finds out i can work on all this stuff and he thinks i am lying to him cause it cant be done. lol.

I dont know if they offer options to everyone, but they definatly know the value of taking care of thier technicians.

I dont know about the rest of the workfroce, but when you start talking about any kind of communication technology, the companys normally do offer thier techs stock options.

 

yah those are crappy numbers though and only reflect on college education, but it does not take into account of other types of education.

It puts the guy working at macdonalds the rest of his life in with the HS grad wit a few cisco certs pulling in 50k a year.

If i do not make another raise for the rest of my life and i continue to work for another 28 years, i will pull in 2.45 mil, just shy of a masters degree. ..

I would like to see a few more fields added in that....

HS GRad with IP Technical training
HS Grad with Telecommunications Training
HS Grad with Medical vocational traning.

im pretty sure i will make another raise in my lifetime.

lol

 

haha didnt read all your thing again i started to loose interest but its the 30-70k guys that are the middle class that are seriously the backbone of america
if we didnt have these guys there would be no more america
so dont bash on college degree
most of the time a degree is something your passionate about and dont mind takin a paycut to do it

 

Those are statistics from the Census and are about as accurate as it gets. Keep in mind, they are just average figures and are looking at straight, typical education levels. They don't take into account sex, race, geography either, or the type of college. Yet, we can all pretty much accept that a kid graduating from Harvard will probably make more money then a kid from Pecker Tech.

If you play the odds, the more education you have, the more money you make. There are always situations that are outside of the box and many people get degrees and work in fields with the intention to never really make a lot of money in the first place. Yet, other people are more fucussed on earning a mint.

 

the housing situation is exactly why i want to go back to Ohio. the real estate market there is a lot cheaper. and wiht my prior service ( 4 years Army active duty, planning on 4 years of National guard at least), i should have some leg-up on competition. my plans are to go either UTI and work for ford, or go for Diesel mechanic. my goals right now are to get enough money to pay for car insurance, my car payment, and other small bills (which aint much).

 

Just curious how many hours a week or month in OT do you put in? I ask because you said the max hourly rate is 37.xx which equates to roughly 77k year plus you said you have a several raises to go before you get 37hr.

 

One thing that I noticed with a lot of people in hourly jobs, especially those that work for unions. Why do they seem to include all their benefits in their hourly rate? People on salary never do this. I think it is a mindset thing.

My brother in law has always done that. For example, an hourly person might say "I make $30/hour" but there might be $11/hr in benefits included in that number. But a salaried persom might say "I make $50k per year" and still get another $25k in benfits on top of that.

I get a benefit statement each year that shows what our benefits are worth. It is sort of a way for the company to "merchandize" our benefits and "sell" to the employees what we are getting. For example, my benefits last year were worth $47k according to their little report. This includes the portion of my 401k that they match, dental, medical, life insurance (I get 7 times my compensation from them) and God knows what else.

Everyone knows medical insurance is going up. It cost us about $15k per year to insure a family.

Now, here is a scary thought, how many hours per week do you guys put in at work? My hours are probably staggering to most of you depending on how you look at it. In an easy week, I work about 50 hrs. But, on a hard week 80 to 100 hours is not uncommon especially when you calculate travel time.

It is not strange for me to have a 6 am flight on a Monday morning, work most of the time on the flight, spend 6 - 8 hours teaching sales reps, then go to dinner as a group, return to the hotel around 11 pm and then spend 2 - 3 hours on email etc.... Depending on how you count the hours, that is 20 to 22 hour day (don't forget, I need to leave for the airport at 4 am for a 6 am flight). Then, on day two, spend 8 - 10 hours, then dinner, back by 11 pm etc....). Day three, fly back blah, blah blah....and the cycle continues.

Last year I flew 60,000 miles in the air. That is pretty heavy, but less then a lot of people.

 

i retire at 39...at least that part of life is good

 

I get a 7,000 shift differential payout, which ends up being about 400 a month after taxes.

Last year i worked about 80 hours of OT, which is paid at 1.5x regular pay, most of it concentrated towards the first half of the year before my kid was born. OT is 100% voluntary and must be approved before hand.

Also, our shop is a 24/7 shop. we never close, so we also have to work some holidays, and holiday pay is 2.5x normal pay. I worked maybe 5 holidays last year. I usually volunteer for the holidays cause i like the extra pay for a lazy day at work

Also, we get semi annual bonuses, they range from a few hundred to a few thousand after taxes, it all depends on how the company is doing.

 

WaterDr..

Yah, i deal with a lot of union guys in the old bell companys. Some of my older co workers were union in the past, and anytime there is any change they are always up in arms grabbing thier torches and pitchforks throwing a fit. lol.

Cant really comment on people including benefits as part of thier hourly rate, cant really say i know many people who do that... i do pay for a small portion of my medical, dental, life insurance, etc, and i do get 5% matched to my 401k contributions. But i know my year end income is definatly not the same as my hourly rate

I normally put in 40 hour weeks. I can do more if they approve the OT which they normally do, but 40 hours is about it. When im off work, im done with work. I leave it behind me and focus on myself, which is not defined by what i do. lol. Thats one of the things i love about hourly, if they want me to put in more time, they pay me for it.

Traveling would be fun, i had a job offer that would have put me well past the 100k a year mark as a traveling fiber technician, and it was 100% traveling. A week here, few months there, day over there, a few aweeks somewhere else. But i like grounding myself down. lol.

 

Generally speaking, you can do a little better when you travel for a job, but there is certainly a trade-off.

I have a brother who is about 26 years old. He makes over a 100k and is gone all week. In fact, he just sold his car and his condo, because according to him, he needs neither. He generally works on a job for 2 to 6 months. They give him a free ticket home each weekend which he either does not use and pockets the money, or flies to stay with his g/f.

When on the road, they cover all meals, pay for laundry, car rentals, etc.... It is a wierd existance. Seriously, imagine being 26 and earning over 100k and getting to keep all of it except for what Uncle Same steals.

To top things off, the company owns "vacation" spots too....believe that ****? They will fly him to Hawaii which he has been too now something like 6 times.....all on the company. Hours? They are endless and he has no life. BUT, he is just doing this like someone might view being in the military.....get experience and save money. He will probably leave in a couple years and go to work for one of his clients. That is what most of them end up doing.

BTW, it is a financial consulting position for a major firm.