It's still off topic because you keep bringing it back up. I ended this a couple posts up. End.

 

I'll do this one logically then and back it up! :shifty:

There are too many places to start with him lying!
First off the war was to get Bin Laden and then to get his ties (ie Sadam, even though he had no ties).

Next the war was about weapons of mass destruction. There were none, all of America looked stupid.

Then came Iraqi Freedom, which we are suppose to believe was the original intent of the war! Never mind all of the other atrocities happening around the world! You can preach all day that Sadam was a piece of sh** but there are people right now in Rwanda and Darfur that are in the process of committing genocide and we could give a damn!

Then Mission Accompished...nothing is accomplished!

I'm cool with supporting the troops. I come from 4 gen NAVY on my father's side and 2 gen NAVY on my mother's side. I have friends in the reserves, the NAVY and the ARMY but I won't fight for oil. My choice and their choice. I would rather swap my motor out and switch to ethanol fuel if it were available on a regular basis, then have to be held hostage to these oil companies.

By the way, the government tapping our phones IS illegal despite what the president says. If Clinton had done the same thing Republicans would have had a sh**house! He just got a little PooNan (which if you don't, I am sorry...feels GREAT) and he got impeached. It seems like everything this administration does is not challenged in the least!

I'm not going to fight with you on abortion, but I am going to guess you are probably pro-death penalty and if you are, that is murder too... If not then cool, you are entitled to your opinion. I just find it funny you support war and yet don't support abortion. Would it be okay if an Iraqi had an abortion? Or if someone was raped? Common, the world is screwed up as it is. If someone isn't prepared to have a child then they shouldn't subject that child to a miserable life. Adoption leaves kids in over crowded foster homes and that is no good either (nothing against foster homes, just a tough way to come up. Much respect for those that have). We barely have enough resources to teach kids who are planned, let alone those that are not.

And as far as tax cuts go...if you are in the 1% of people that truely benefit from the crazy tax cuts then I understand that it is hard work to keep those millions of hard earned stock dollars away from the government. But if you are stuck like most of us are in the middle and the tax breaks give us only enough to buy gas for the month (at best) then forget it! And besides...all this money you are saving right now...guess what, the next president that gets this sh***ty deficit is going to have to raise taxes just so we have enough money to UNDERFUND things like the war and the Katrina disaster.

Just my $0.39!

Alright, back on topic!

Political Party: Democrat
Religion: A little less than holiday Catholic!

 

BTW, the best part about this entire thing is that it is cool what ever political party and religion you are. Jews, Christians and Muslims (and anyone else) can rock a mean GT or 6 and repulicans and democrats can BOTH be conservative with a 400+ hp Cobra!

Cheers to that sh**!

 

hmmm...

well... my view on "murder"

Abortion... killing an unborn baby... before it has a chance a life is murder and is wrong...

war is necasary, so i don't consider it murder... if it wasn't for war then this great nation would not be!

The death penalty... i aslo believe is murder... BUT... there is more emotion in that... the person on death row did something terrible and whether right or wrong deserves it...

Now saying bush is a liar... is a bit of a stretch IMPO... Its as to be hard for anyone to know for sure whether or not their really were weapons of mass destruction...

but also!

Iraq is a place where many terroists are located... so... there is also that that plays a role in the war...

I have to be honest... I havn't been following the war closely... so I personally can't argue anything that you said...

I am glad you reasoned your arguement though

 

amen!

 

Couldn't have said it better! :clap:

 

thats what this site is about... MUSTANGS

"And nothing else matters"

 

Ok first off, **** approval ratings. The way the general public views the president makes no mark on how good he is.

secondly, did ANY other presidents have to reside when 9/11 happened?? HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!. It's the single most awful act of terror the usa has ever seen, and some of you whiny people think any other president would've done better? Tell me what you'd do if kerry was voted in '04, pulled troops out of iraq, and then iraq(or neighboring countries) pulled an all-out war. It's sure as hell suck, right? Then everyone would be like "oh kerry sucks,i never voted for him, i wish bush was here."

America is safe[r than it would be with kerry]. Kerry focus was basically pleasing middle america and liberals, not protecting our country. He was a people pleaser. Who gives a **** about tax cuts for billionaires. Don't worry about it, everyone is guaranteed taxes in their life, don't whine about where they're going. Nothin you can do about it.

And don't anyone here mention the ****ing deficit. America's economy has boomed exponentially since the early 1900's. America will never(quote me on this, never) overcome its deficit, no matter who's president. For someone who's been president since 2000, the "technology age", its NOOOOOO wonder america has such a deficit. Population is booming, it's inevitable. If gore made it in 2000 and kerry made it in 2004, the us deficit would still be horrible.


As for my religion, everyone knows what I am, but lemme put it this way...
For me, there's hope for me after I die(according to my religion)
For those who dont believe in anything, there's no hope for anything when you die.

I'd sure as heck rather believe in something and hope for the best than believe in nothing and not have any hope. You only live 70-80 years max on here. You sure better hope a) there's an afterlife and b) you're gonna be there.


And for those of you who think you'll make it to heaven when you die bc you've been a "good person", remember who defined "good person". If you expect to go to God's house when you die, you better have played by His rules.

/rant /day

 

Wow, just wow. I typically don't reply to political threads on car forums, but I'll stick to basics on this one. I'm a registered Republican but beliefs are Centrist for the most part. I don't believe in making people completely dependent on government, State nor Federal. Religion....I was raised Southern Baptist so I'm agnostic as an adult of course. I do believe that there's an omnipotent, onmipowerful entity that created the universe. I just don't know if that entity goes by the name of God or Kali or what.

About the war, I'm glad we finally did it, shoulda been done a long time ago.
Deficit.....yep, we're always going to have one as long as people keep demanding more from the federal government.
tax cuts.......I've gotten several tax breaks over the past couple years and I'm definitely no billionaire
abortion. I don't like it, but it has a place in society.
Mustangs, yes...and make it as fast as you can please, thank you very much.

 

Just to clearup some things:

1 - I am a Republican and I believe in tough love. I belive that we need to reduce the role of government in our lives. HOWEVER, I also believe that a good percentage of the population can not survive on their own...even if they have money...they are simply helpless.

2 - I believe that being pro-life means that you are against abortion (I prefer to call it "pro adoption") and must then also be against the death penalty except in the most extreme circumstances. Killing is bad PERIOD.

3 - You can still hate the president but MUST respect the office if you call yourself a patriot. Being patriotic means having a love for the flag...ie the country and not a particular person.

4 - I am a Roman Catholic, BUT see many problems with the church. The Catholic church is the oldest religion in the world and was started directly by Christ himself when he appointed Peter. As such, the Catholic church deserves respect by all christians. However, when the church hides child molesters...well, I am still ticked about that.

5 - I believe that if you are in a position of authority (CEO, police, teacher...) and use your influence to break a law, you deserve additional punnishment.

6 - I believe that we need to shut down our borders ASAP and get control. Things have gotten out of hand.

7 - I believe that children deserve the right to be protected by ALL adults.

That is all- LOL

 

the jews have been around longer

 

Yeah but every other intelligence agency in the ****ing word said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction... and at least Bush took the brunt of it and apologized over national TV for it not being correct. It was a statement he made to the nation, like what, three-four months ago?

Like Clinton was any better dude.

Political Party: Republican
Religion: Baptist

 

:stupid:

 

Republican, but more then that, conservative.

I support almost everything that the republicans exept i am not christan, i have actually been called anti-chritian.

i am pro-abortain, and i dont give a crap about gays, who cares if they can marry, to me marriage is just a stamp that says you can file taxes together

I support bush, and i am all for lower taxes, lets keep our own money kthx

 

 

I love it when ignorant liberals paste Reagan for spending money. Hey dumb idiots, presidents don't spend money, congress does! For 40 years the dems ran Congress and all during that time they spent, spent, spent. Now that we have that civics lesson straight, remember Jimmy Carter? Worst inflation in the history of the country.

Whether Bush is a good president or not will not be known for another 20 - 40 years. Oh, and by the way, while I hate to say this, there is not been another terrorist attack in the US since 911. I wonder why?

Also, it is truth that Bill Clinton had more wire taps then Bush did. You just did not hear about it.

 

well said

 

:stupid:

 

Sorry if I got a bit robust in my reply. People are entittled to their own opinions, just be sure you understand how things work.

Life is a complex thing. Politics is no different. We live in the greatest country in the world where people can formulate their own opinions.

If you don't like it here, then try to change it or move.

 

Yea in a church, of course gays should be able to be married under any christian god, but the thought of marriage in the US takes on two meanings, there is the "holy matrimony" and the, well now we file tax's together and share names.

As far as the USA goes, a LEGAL marraige (non christian etc) can be done with some little paperwork and a notery.

So the law shouldnt care who gets married to who, gay or otherwise, however a church can care, and should.

But honestly, why do the christians care if gays file taxes together? for god sakes live and let live.

Dont let them do it in churches if you want, but christainity does not and should not have any bearing beyond that.

 

Hey, let the gays file taxes together that way they will pay more. Ever heard of the marriage penalty? You pay more if you are married and both working then if you are not married in many circumstances.

 

i dont really have much to say but i dont like politics....period...

im not really religious...but i dont have a problem w/ religion....if my g/f parents ask me to go to church w/ them...ill go...i dont have any problem w/ going and respecting their wishes...i know people who are EXTREMELY religious...and it has basically taken over their life...EVERYTHING by the bible....

abortion:
against it if couple agrees to have sex...they take the risk of concieving
for it if a young girl is raped...being raped ruins the girls life

GAYS:
if its the life they choose..then so be it...i dont think the government should be able to control the lives of any person...

and please ...dont ragg on me cause of my views...i dont usually let many know about my views for its personal..but u guys are family to me...so im sharing w/ family :clap:


on a side note























MUSTANGS FOR LIFE!! :clap:

 

Wait wait wait! Okay, I'll grant you that presidents don't "spend" our money but they do hype up their economic programs and influence how money is spent by Congress. Trickle down economics obviously trickled nowhere. Oh! and if we want to get into Congress spending the money, this Republican dominated Congress seems to like to waste our tax dollars on Pork Barrel spending (ie the Bridge to nowhere in Alaska). Back on the topic of presidental influence, Bush's tax cuts for the rich program is only going to cause problems down the road because we are going to have to make up this deficit at some point. I just heard the argument about not bringing up the deficit because there has been and always will be one. Well the bigger the deficit gets, the less value the dollar has on the global market. Right now England is 2 TIMES the value of the dollar (a beer was like $10)! The Euro, in its short time, has already surpassed the dollar and other countries are itching pretty close. PLUS presidents DO get to veto economic bills, so they may not necessarily get to "spend" the money, but the get discretion over how and where it will be spent. And you point out Carter as the person who had the worst inflation during his term but you might as well have named Clinton for the biggest economic boom in the history of the country.

Regarding taxes: I am a proponent of keeping my money too, BUT I don't get to because I don't fit the brackets. Here is the stupid thing. If you give people in the lower and middle classes larger tax breaks, they are going to buy things and stimulate the economy. They are going to invest more because they have the resources to do so. Example: the small refund I managed to get (only because I was able to get a school credit) went straight to MT! By giving the tax breaks to the rich, Bush's argument is that they will reinvest that money. The problem is that they don't and they simply amass wealth. But they aren't giving bigger tax breaks to the lower income level earners because they really don't care.

Next point, terror attacks: It isn't logical to say you would rather have had one candidate or another be president at the time of something like 9/11 because you don't really know how the other person would have handled the situation. You forget, Kerry actually has seen combat. The only enemy lines Bush has ever seen are Columbian, white, and you can snort them through a pipe. If we had another Cuban Missle Crisis I would damn well hope Bush isn't in office. And if I recall, wasn't Bush's reaction to just sit there when he found out about the attacks? Anyways, to say that there has not been another attack on the US is to say that they were more frequent in the past. There have not been a great number of terror attacks on the US fortunately but it isn't as if Bush and his administration have come in and completely stopped terrorism. All they have done is made the public scared and invented a color system (secretly a gay pride flag) that seems permanently stuck on yellow (or maybe orange if you watch Fox News).

And here I was trying to go to bed early! :sleeping:

 

Quick side note...I am prety sure it isn't a choice. Would you really "choose" to be gay? It isn't like a rebellion against women! (Or in the case of lesbians, men)!

So this might be for another thread...but when y'all are watching **** and see two girls and a guy weasling...do you automatically turn it off because in the eyes of the lord (and society) it's "wrong"?

If someone weren't a little gay, then how would a ménage à trois work! :banana: :banana:

I know, I know BUT! It is food for thought and has something to do with religion (and maybe politics if you are Clinton or JFK)! One thing is for sure, dems love to get some of that sneezle weasling going on! Glad to be part of that group!

 

Ok, so far I like the way that this thread has worked out. Looks like people are having semi-intelligent discussion, for once.

Now, as for me. I am a Moderate, probably leaning a bit more towards being a Democrat than a Republican.

As far as my views on what has come up:

The war in Iraq is a war that should not have been entered from the beginning. There was no evidence of WMD's, and im not too happy that the subject matter of the war suddenly changed from "OMG Saddam has WMD's" (which he had been known to have) to "Hey, we're bringing democracy to Iraq." I for one would have been pleased with the government going out and photoshopping a picture of a nuke strapped onto an ice cream truck for justification of the war. There were no ties with Al Qaeda and Saddam, and this has been proven multiple times over. Saddam even thought that Bin Laden was a maniac and did not agree with his practices or methods. Now was Saddam cooperative with inspections? No. But then again, those inspections were less of a deterrant than anything else.

To make this clear: Do I believe Saddam was a douchebag? Yes. Can I justify 3000+ Dead US Troops and Thousands of Iraqi citizens dead as acceptable to overthrow a government that had nothing to do with the attack on US soil? No, I can't. And I don't exactly see anyone who can justify this.

The war in Iraq wasn't brought up just randomly as a dinner-table discussion. That was brought up a during 9/11 by Paul Wolfowitz. Originally Bush didnt even want to touch Iraq (Read Clark's book about this).

I for one support our troops for being over there when they shouldnt be and hope that they return home safely. I am with Rep. John Murtha in the fact that I believe that there needs to be a structured pullout, and it needs to start happening now. Remember the whole "The war will take only three weeks." Where are we now, three years if im not mistaken?

Just a quick thought here, how can we, as a country, be bringing DEMOCRACY to Iraq, when only 30% of Americans actually participate in the democratic process?! That seems a little backwards to me.

The war on terror was a war that was setup to go after our attackers, who were in the mountains of Afganistan, not in the oil fields in Iraq. If anything, we as a country have created a more unstable environment now post invasion than prior to the invasion. Iran is VERY unstable and has almost a ****-like demeanor on progress and so forth. Our troops are in more danger now than ever if Iran goes Nuclear, which it probably already is. We can't engage in a war on two fronts with the troops that we have in place right now.

Just because you are against a war, doesnt mean that you are for the other side. If someone was walking around saying "GO IRAQ, YOU ****ERS." then by all means kick their ***.

As far as immigration goes, I believe that we do have a wide open policy for immigration, but things need to change in order to bring fairness and equality as far as base pay goes. Minimum wage is a joke, and I cant blame these people in working for under the table pay. After taxes, they wouldnt even be able to support any family, much less themselves.

I think that anyone who decides to immigrate to the US should do three very important things.
1) Citizenship test and become a full fledged citizen.
2) Learn the English Language (The national language is not, contrary to popular belief Spanish)
3) Pay Taxes.

Who said that this country is always in a defecit? That's total bull****.

Last time I checked this country was in a multi-billion dollar SURPLUS when Bush took office. Anyone know where the hell this money went do? I believe it was the Republican House and Senate who passed a tax cut at a time when every state in the nation was broke? So where the hell is this money coming from?! We didnt even have the money to go off and fight this war. We had to borrow money from other countries in order to go and fight the war. Where the hell is the logic in that? If you can't afford something, then don't go and buy it!

As far as taxes go, I believe that giving a tax break to the wealthiest tax brackets does nothing to trickle down to the rest of the citizens of the US. How many of them manipulate the US Income Tax system putting money into tax-free items. If you want to make a tax cut, make one for the lower and middle class. They pull the country around, not the wealthiest brackets.

And what the hell was the point of the $300 check from the government to those who qualify?! What the hell are you going to do with $300 that is going to stimulate the economy? Maybe in 1950 this would have made a difference, but nowadays, **** that. That $300 wont do diddily to help out those people who need it. Same goes for the tax break if you have a child. Thats also a crock of ****.

There's a ton of other stuff that I will touch on later, but these are the first things I was thinking about.

 

I like what was said here.

 

Not entirely true. I'll explain. With abortion, the baby doesn't have a CHOICE. However the person on death row had a CHOICE and they chose to break the law to an extent that their life was the penalty.

however, there are scenarios in which abortion is legit. ONLY, if there is without a doubt a risk of life be it the mother or unborn child would I say abortion is an option, but only if it is 100% sure that there is risk of life with the child being born.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha.....this is coming from a guy who posted a story earlier about flipping some guy off! Wow, I love religious people.....you can do whatever you want and then just pray and it's all good! Sorry Danny...couldn't help it.

I'm with Jack on this one.....I'm a good person....volunteer and food bank and do every good deed I can...blah blah blah.....so if god doesn't want me, then screw him and the camel he road in on!