hello everyone ..
this is my first thread here ..
i am going to install few boltons on my car and i was thinking , how much would the following setup make in your opinion?
cms stage 2.5 with high load spring's , BBK 75mm + trick flow plenum , S&b Cold air intake , Steeda Pulley's , Bassani 2.5 Cat-Back , 3.73 , Custom Tune and 35 shot of nitrous.

 

Welcome to the Boards. Tell us a little more about the car.

 

welcome... to answer your question is impossible without more info.

 

starting with a year and model would help lol, welcome dude.

 

x4

lol

 

thanks guy's for the fast reply
mustang gt - 02 , Manual .. now i have 3.73 + Sct strategy tune ,, almost 250 rwhp
Stock engine

 

don't bother with most of the bullshit you have listed, grab a 100 shot of nitrous, the gears and a proper dyno tune. You'll make more power, spend less money and be just as happy.

75mm tb is WORTHLESS without a 5.4L swap or a 8000rpm engine, which doesn't work in 2v anyway.

cams are EXTREMELY expensive to install and purchase and they return MAYBE 25hp if your super ******' lucky. Don't bother until you decide to build the engine with forged pistons, forged h-beam rods and all that jazz.

CAI = 1hp. Wow, great way to waste 200 bucks. How about you use the stocker which actually outflows most aftermarket pipes.

Upper plenum = 0 hp. Yep, not a damned sausage. If you want to burn the money, fine but in all reality the engine CAN NOT POSSIBLY use the entirety of the flow capacity of the stock unit. The stocker also supports up to a 70mm TB which is all the upgrade to that component that's really worthwhile on a 4.6L application, and even then it's a pretty grossly bad waste of money for what you get out of it. BIG DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD.

Cat-back is basically for sound but I've seen 3-6hp from it on various cars. That said, power adder cars need more exhaust capacity than NA cars so I'll say that this isn't necessarily wasted but know that you're going to be changing sound, not really performance there. BTW... you can't feel power increases under about 15hp.

Pullies are the stupidest thing ever foisted on the modding public. 0hp change until you cross about 4000rpm, then you get 1-3. If you want to really pull power out of your pullies, then **** all those underdrive BS hunks of **** and get a proper electric water pump. Keep a spare mechanical pump in the trunk and plan on replacing every couple years. An electric water pump can pretty easily net out 10-14hp and you can feel the difference at any RPM and it improves cooling.

I know for a fact that you'll make 50hp more if you follow my advice and you'll spend 1000 dollars less.

 

thanks dude for the reply , i'll talk about cams , actually cms stage 1 makes 25-30 rwhp !
how can the cms stage 2.5 N\A cams give me just A 25hp if i'm lucky ?
and the other bolt on's like ( BBK 75mm + trick flow plenum , S&b Cold air intake , Steeda Pulley's , Bassani 2.5 Cat-Back ) i'm already bought it ! so i'm gonna use it for while ,,

 

don't kid yourself about cams... call me a liar if you want but I have been there and done that and I got the t-shirt and sent a postcard home.

You're reading advertisements and believing them. That's the problem. But soon you're going to find some relic dyno pull from a single factory freak that was pulling 252rwhp before cams and made 280 afterward and you're going to tell me that you think that'll happen for you. Well, it won't.

All those other mods, you wasted money on. So did I before I learned my lesson. Don't feel bad but don't be pissed at me for telling you you made a mistake. You can leave them on if you own them but they're not actually helping much and I thought you deserved a little truth.

If you want the full house return from the cams and not just 15-20hp, but closer to 20-25hp, you'll need about 1800 bucks worth of longtube header purchase/install/re-tune. Longtubes are needed to maximize the scavenging effect to achieve those numbers, and you need to show up to the shop with a full-bolt-on car (aka, all the bolt-on bits possible are done already) in order to show 30hp from a set of cams, even awesome cams like CMS or HiTech and that usually doesn't happen anyway. Most cars show about 10-20hp from cams. The owners are usually pissed after paying 1000 bucks for the install and tune plus 600 for the cams and getting basically nothing but a lopey idle from it.

The 35 shot of nitrous is just plain pussin' out. Sorry, but that's just the case. 100hp shot makes 380-390 to the tires. Even if you got all the numbers from the cams and ran a 35 shot you're still down 50hp over just saving all that hassle and putting the nice easy reliable 100shot on it.

 

Thank ****. An honest to **** post that pulls no punches. I`ve been buying cars for years and when I was young I used to waste money thinking I had `gained`.
I remember years ago once having an E30 twin cam 16v BMW. Just a little 1800cc. It dyno`d 107 rwhp. After spending £700 odd ($1200 a lot of money then) on ECU chip, CAI etc full stainless exhaust I redyno`d it at the same rolling road. I made 113. $1200 for 6 hp.
Young and dumb.

 

I did a cam swap on my 5.4 comp cams xe262ah with other bolts on such as accufab plenum 70 mm tb electric water pump and underdrive crank pulley and i saw a gain of 15 hp/tq at the wheels in all so never mind when they advertuse gain up to 10 rwhp for a set of underdrive pulley

 

to answer questions on throttle bodies and plenums
please read this: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...no-charts.html

now to camshafts. if cams only gained 15hp than you wouldnt see so many people running stage 2 cams and making 280-300 hp when degreed properly. Have you heard of hitech stage 2 cams? because the average on a 5 speed is 280-300 and they are great for putting full bolt on and properly geared gts in the 12s. 15 hp is what you would expect from a stage 1 cam. I am not an expert, I am just posting from what ppl in the real world make with cams. There is a reason why cams are so popular. In case you did not know, but supporting mods are extremely important. Throttle bodys and plenums are important supporting especialy when building n/a. airflow is important and when building n/a (and especialy f/i) the stock stuff will become a hinderance. Same goes for cais, because a strait smooth open tube is better for feeding air the the stocker. supporting mods will help. let me put it in persepective for you a 4.6l built and stroked to 5.0 with heads and cams will be really lucky to see 350hp, a built 4.6l stock stroke with heads and cams will be lucky to see 320hp. or someone can throw in a good stage 2 cam like hitech stage 2 cams where the average is 280 to 300, now throw in a better gear ratio (373 or 410 are great choices, or even 430 or 390) and combined with fulll boltons decent suspension and a good driver, will be a solid 12 sec performer. Do a little research before handing out false information.

 

My post was in answer to you post about cams, but i quoted the wrong post lol

 

^^^ Waiting on the follow up ^^^

 

Unwise grasshopper.

Dude, his 25hp estimate is fully within your estimate of 280-300hp. But is the gain really worth the nearly 2 grand price tag (parts and professional install).

From what I gather from your post is that you're a 'stats' guy with no actual personal data to contribute to the numbers you are tossing around. Your case and argument is null in my eyes.

Sounds like you are spamming for Hi-Tech?

 

let me explain "grasshopper"

pi 2v gts will dyno low side 230s to high side 250s unless you have some factory freak. so i will use an average of 245, now some basic math for you 280-245=35, 280-235-45. those gains are higher than 15 or 25. the factory freaks that dyno late 250s to early 260s are usualy the ones that hit the 290s to 300 with cams, which again is above 15- 25 hp. and my data is from peoples real life dyno results, talking to performance shops and doing my research. if your gonna debate with me learn basic math and research so you have counter points.

 

The grasshopper was for your greenhorn status here. You clearly do not know who the resident factoid members are, I am not one of them, obviously.

Also, I stand by statement because dyno numbers are just what they are, numbers.

Yes, you keep using your math to add up all those bolt on advertised hp gains. I have searched and I pretty much only seen about 10 threads of different cars pull 280-290 hp numbers out of stage 2 cams...but long tubes are a must and some actually have a trickflow intake or victor jr and spin the motor to 6500. I believe majority of people leave with their heads hanging low after cams are installed because they didnt get the high side of a 30 horsepower gain but rather a 20hp gain.

Again, get some PERSONAL data, as in your OWN, and report back to us.


The bottom line of his post was to skip all the bullshit bolt ons and go straight for the power adder. Nitrous being the most bang for your buck. 800-1k investment for 100 horspower and 110-120 lb ft of torque added. Most of us has gone and got the CAI, tb, pulley and exhaust t-shirts only to be left dissatisfied with nominal performance gains.

 

my post was not about bolt ons if you had actually read my first post you would understand my explanation of bolt ons being supporting mods. point being is that a car has to breathe when you add the bigger mods.

 

How about I just stop the arguing and say, stanger00 is right. I know he knows what's real, he like I has actually been there and done that.

Let's not dwell too long on dyno numbers either. I don't want to get my experience stick out.

 

there is always the difference in dynos varible, same type dynos have put out different numbers.

its not an argument its a good ole debate

 

Just a word of advice to some of the newbies in here. You should a little research before trying to call out long time members on this board who have spent tons of money on various parts for their cars and trying out different combinations. A lot of us, myself included, have spent more money than we should have for minimal gains. There's a lot of great and useful information on this board and we don't need new people trying call out those members because they give out different information than what you might have read on the manufacturers website about their product. All cars are going to vary on numbers, but if you're going to be calling people out, you better have good data and information to back up your statements.

 

you assume that just because i am new to this forum I am less knowledgable, I am in no way saying that there are not many people on this forum who know more than me, but you are wrong in assuming that this is my first rodeo so to speak. I am not as experienced as some people on here as I only have six years of mustang project car experience(first was in fox land). I thought forums were about voicing opinions and debating them? you are simply getting pissy when I bring counter info to the table.

 

Yup, agreed. Done it. Properly. Left feeling short changed.

40hp from a cam? Is that including the bolt ons or not? If it is then r3dn3ck is correct. If its 40hp from cam only then fair enough. can`t see it though. I read your post on the other forum. Going by what you`ve found a TB and plenum on my near stock GT nets me 8hp. AND thats at the crank so maybe 5 at the wheels. ie. **** all for the money so r3dn3ck is right again then.

I`m a newbie too but that doesn`t mean to say I`m new to cars. I`ve had some properly quick cars some with two turbos some with one. I`m not dissing you man, I admire your optimism I`m just being realistic. What the Original poster was getting at was `what was he getting for his cash?` with a n/a car with bolt ons.

Answer? not a lot for the money. Thats fact and not up for dispute.

 

40hp from a cam? Is that including the bolt ons or not? If it is then r3dn3ck is correct. If its 40hp from cam only then fair enough. can`t see it though. I read your post on the other forum. Going by what you`ve found a TB and plenum on my near stock GT nets me 8hp. AND thats at the crank so maybe 5 at the wheels. ie. **** all for the money so r3dn3ck is right again then.

yes including bolt ons, BOLTONS ARE SUPPORTING MODS, on a stock gt they may not do much but they help future mods.

I`m a newbie too but that doesn`t mean to say I`m new to cars. I`ve had some properly quick cars some with two turbos some with one. I`m not dissing you man, I admire your optimism I`m just being realistic. What the Original poster was getting at was `what was he getting for his cash?` with a n/a car with bolt ons.

the fact is that cams are a great bang for the buck, a good suspension, good gear ratio, full bolt ons, good set of stage two cams, and a good driver is a proven combo for 12sec action.

 

How can you say cams are a great bang for the buck? You're looking $1500 or so for the cams and install if you can't do it yourself. So $1500 for what 25hp gain, if you have the supporting mods. So then add the cost of those supporting mods and you are well over $2000 in parts and still under 300rwhp. As r3d said, nitrous is the best bang for the buck, but if you have patience and look around, you can piece together a supercharger kit for under $2000 like I did. After you spent all the money on bolt ons and such, then cams might look worth while, but they still aren't the best bang for your buck.

 

And thats the word...

 

And when you melt your pistons with the nitrous rebuild you engine and put new cams and forged internals so it's built right, and you can see gains from the cams.

 

Yes cause everyone blows their engine with nitrous.