Quickest way to get to 300 HP?
#1
10-02-2004, 11:35 PM
Quickest way to get to 300 HP?
Hey I was wondering on a stock 2003 mustang GT with a manual transmission what what is the cheapest way to get to 300 HP? I have about $1500 - $2000 to spend on this project and I wanted to know which mods would get me to 300 hp the quickest. Thanks.
#2
10-03-2004, 12:45 AM
Quickest way to get to 300 HP?
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder
Hey I was wondering on a stock 2003 mustang GT with a manual transmission what what is the cheapest way to get to 300 HP? I have about $1500 - $2000 to spend on this project and I wanted to know which mods would get me to 300 hp the quickest. Thanks.
#3
10-03-2004, 05:49 AM
That depends. Do you mean 300 hp at the wheels OR at the flywheel?
If you mean rwhp then nitrous is the ONLY way to do that on the budget that you specified. Actually, with nitrous, you will be at more like 325 rwhp with a 100 shot if that is your only mod.
Below I have listed some popular mods, what they cost, and the rwhp gains. For flywheel hp, you need to add about 15%. Keep in mind, this is not an exact science. For cost, the number in ( ) is for labor.
UDP (Under Drive Pullies): $150 ($50).....................6 - 10 rwhp
X - Pipe: $250 - $400 ($80).................................10 - 15 rwhp
Catback: $250 - $500 ($50).................................3 - 11 rwhp
CAI (Cold Air Induction): $80 - $250 ($25)..............3 - 10 rwhp
TB and Plenum Combo: $400 ($75) .......................10 - 14 rwhp
Chip/Programmer $250 - $450 ($75 - chip)..............5 - 15 rwhp
Cams $600 ($300 - $700).....................................15 - 30 rwhp (street)
Heads $1500 - $2000 ($300 - $700).......................40 - 60 rwhp (street)
* Heads and cams can be done at the same time to save on labor.
If you were to do ALL of the above and and do the installs yourself, the cost would be about $4300 (depending on the brands you choose) and you would gain about 100 rwhp realistically for a car that would be very streetable. You could do better with the heads and cams for a racing only setup.
For the same money, you could get a turbo installed and leave everythng else stock. Don't forget the $4300 figure above does not include any labor which is about $700 - $900 for a cam/head swap.
If you did all of the above minus the cams and heads, you would gain about 60 to 65 rwhp at a cost of about $1380 - $1950 depending on which specific
parts you choose. That would put you at 290 rwhp and about 335 to the flywheel. Sounds good, right? Hey, you could get lucky and get 300 rwhp!
The problem is, I have seen dozens of cars dynoed with all of the above mods (not including the heads/cams), and typically only see them dyno in the 260 rwhp range.
Don't forget though, it is not ONLY about hp. You have to look at area under the curve, throttle response, and drivibility. These are all things that many of these bolt-ons help with. Is you goal hp or to make the car faster?
Things like weight reduction and traction help make a car lots faster and a driver is the best mod available. There are plenty of mustangs putting down 245 - 255 to the wheels running in the low 13's and even 12's because of weight, the right tires, and practise. I am not a bod fan of weight reduction, because pulling on the rear seat makes it hard to take the kids to the grocery store, but you get the picture.
This is one of the reasons why I chose to go with nitrous. Cheap and great for the track. Plus you can install it yourself, and take it out and no one has to know it was ever there.
Sorry for my blabber!
If you mean rwhp then nitrous is the ONLY way to do that on the budget that you specified. Actually, with nitrous, you will be at more like 325 rwhp with a 100 shot if that is your only mod.
Below I have listed some popular mods, what they cost, and the rwhp gains. For flywheel hp, you need to add about 15%. Keep in mind, this is not an exact science. For cost, the number in ( ) is for labor.
UDP (Under Drive Pullies): $150 ($50).....................6 - 10 rwhp
X - Pipe: $250 - $400 ($80).................................10 - 15 rwhp
Catback: $250 - $500 ($50).................................3 - 11 rwhp
CAI (Cold Air Induction): $80 - $250 ($25)..............3 - 10 rwhp
TB and Plenum Combo: $400 ($75) .......................10 - 14 rwhp
Chip/Programmer $250 - $450 ($75 - chip)..............5 - 15 rwhp
Cams $600 ($300 - $700).....................................15 - 30 rwhp (street)
Heads $1500 - $2000 ($300 - $700).......................40 - 60 rwhp (street)
* Heads and cams can be done at the same time to save on labor.
If you were to do ALL of the above and and do the installs yourself, the cost would be about $4300 (depending on the brands you choose) and you would gain about 100 rwhp realistically for a car that would be very streetable. You could do better with the heads and cams for a racing only setup.
For the same money, you could get a turbo installed and leave everythng else stock. Don't forget the $4300 figure above does not include any labor which is about $700 - $900 for a cam/head swap.
If you did all of the above minus the cams and heads, you would gain about 60 to 65 rwhp at a cost of about $1380 - $1950 depending on which specific
parts you choose. That would put you at 290 rwhp and about 335 to the flywheel. Sounds good, right? Hey, you could get lucky and get 300 rwhp!
The problem is, I have seen dozens of cars dynoed with all of the above mods (not including the heads/cams), and typically only see them dyno in the 260 rwhp range.
Don't forget though, it is not ONLY about hp. You have to look at area under the curve, throttle response, and drivibility. These are all things that many of these bolt-ons help with. Is you goal hp or to make the car faster?
Things like weight reduction and traction help make a car lots faster and a driver is the best mod available. There are plenty of mustangs putting down 245 - 255 to the wheels running in the low 13's and even 12's because of weight, the right tires, and practise. I am not a bod fan of weight reduction, because pulling on the rear seat makes it hard to take the kids to the grocery store, but you get the picture.
This is one of the reasons why I chose to go with nitrous. Cheap and great for the track. Plus you can install it yourself, and take it out and no one has to know it was ever there.
Sorry for my blabber!
#4
10-03-2004, 05:53 AM
Do you plan to stay N/A? If so, hope you plan to do a lot of the installs yourself. (for that price range) I know I spent about a grand for my full exhaust setup when I had my old stang. That was for Long tubes, mid-pipe, flowmasters, and labor.
#5
10-03-2004, 06:59 AM
It is very hard to get to 300 rwhp with our cars. The easiest as stated would be nitrous, but if you want something more, you are about half way there to a base supercharger kit. I dont know what your plans for the car are, but maybe that is a possiblility as well, just save a little longer.
#6
10-03-2004, 07:01 AM
I don't know much about the mustang v8 engines, but I can copy the very good tutorial on Modular Depot. (http://forums.modulardepot.com/showt...?threadid=1877)
Before reading on I just want to say that this is basically geared towards drag racers not your average enthusiast looking for 12s on street tires with no real changes to the car. Not that it can’t be applied to someone looking for that but this is geared more towards the people out there looking for 12s and willing to work for it.
1.) Power – If you listen to some old school drag racers they may say you need at least 300+RWHP to hit 12’s in most cars. In some heavier cars that may be true but fact is suspensions are more refined these days and cars don’t weight 4,000 lbs. Most PI headed cars will hit the 245-255RWHP mark with basic mods (Pulleys, Timing Adjuster or chip, O/R H or X, K&N or other type of high flow filter and although not a power mod…gears 4.10s or 4.30s). For a bolt on GT this is enough power to get the car into the 12s after you follow the other steps. Keep in mind more power will make it easier to reach your goal or help offset more weight (see next section) but it can be done with less.
2.) Weight - You basic 5 speed coupe without driver weights 3250lbs. So with an average driver weighing about 180lbs that puts your race weight at 3430lbs. At that weight and a power to weight ratio of .075 you would need 258RWHP to hit 12’s. Power to weight is the power of your car (rear wheel) divided by race weight of the car. Using my car when I broke into the 12’s first time I was making 246RWHP and had a race weight of 3250lb, which worked out to a .075 power to weight ratio or .075RWHP per pound of the car. From what I’ve seen a car can get into the 12s with a .075 to .080 P/W ratio. So if your race weight is 3430lbs then 3430 * .075 = 257.25RWHP. As long as you keep this ratio in the .075 to .080 range you are fine plus keep in mind you can drop weight instead of adding power. An example of this is a car with a 3000lb race weight could break into the 12s with 225RWHP (close to stock power on a GT).
Now I’m sure some of you are asking about weight reduction. Basic weight reduction would be rear seat delete, removal of spare tire, jack, tire iron…these would knock a good 70-80lbs from the car. Add a set of welds or light weight race wheels and you are looking at another 60-80lbs. For more information about specific weights and more ideas look here… http://users.adelphia.net/~mustang-...20Reduction.htm
3.) Suspension - I feel that this component has the most leeway so to speak. I’ve seen near stock suspension cars get good weight transfer. I honestly believe a car that meets the other requirements could hit 12s on the stock suspension. However those of you that want to get an edge should read on. First thing I would do is look at springs since most of us want a better stance but still want weight transfer. For that look at fox body 4cyl front springs I usually look to the junkyards for these but most buy stock replacements at a local shop (avoid Moog brand though they are taller than stock specs). For the rear end I go with fox body v8 rear springs cut anywhere from a ¼ to 1 coil to level out the car. Just keep in mind that it’s easier to cut too little than too much spring.
Next I would highly recommend a pair of sub-frame connectors welded in to tie the chassis together. Hard launches on slicks will twist the body and this will help keep it straight. Last piece to really help out is struts I went with Lakewoods because they are readily available and affordable but adjustables can be used as well if you have the budget for them. 70/30s and 90/10’s both work well and I stick with fox body specific struts since the car is lowered. Fox body specific springs are ¾” shorter than stock SN-95 springs so the lower fox body specific struts are shorter.
4.) Traction – I’ll cut to the chase here and just skip over street tires and drag radials and go right to slicks. Not that it can’t be done on these tires but it will take more power, more patience and much more writing on my part so we’ll stick to slicks. Cars in this weight range and power level only need a 26x8.5x15 ET Drag for traction. It’s close to stock tire height and is more than enough to make our cars hook on the track. A better suspension will result in better 60 foot times but even on stock suspension a good burnout on slicks will not spin unless the track is poorly prepped or fluids are on the track. Some people opt for cheap steel wheels which I don’t necessarily recommend since you are keeping extra weight on the axles. This opens you up for possible breakage so I would go with a weld wheel instead even if it’s a pair of used ones for track only purposes. Regardless a 15x8 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 5.5 backspacing will fit perfect, or if you insist on a wider tire like a 10” then a 15x10 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 6.5 backspacing will also work on our cars.
5.) Practice – This is one component that you can’t buy at any store, you can learn it from a text book and you can’t ask your friends about you simply have to get out there. I’m not saying everyone should be like me and hit every test and tune but don’t expect to make one trip and bingo your in the 12’s. I race on slicks for 3 months before hitting my first 12 second pass. Going to slicks alone was a big change that I had to adjust to before I got the hang of and learned to shift better, etc… Take your time, get comfortable in the car and have fun with it. Do that and you’ll achieve your goal.
Now that you know the key components to get into the 12’s you have to keep it all together. In the above situation I would highly recommend an aftermarket shifter just to help keep the transmission alive longer. The biggest weakness in the above is the differential and axles. Not to say they can’t take some abuse because they can, mine went almost a full year of launches on slicks before breaking. I would look at a set of 31 spline axles and an Eaton or Ford 31 spline differential beefed up to keep the back end in one piece.
Before reading on I just want to say that this is basically geared towards drag racers not your average enthusiast looking for 12s on street tires with no real changes to the car. Not that it can’t be applied to someone looking for that but this is geared more towards the people out there looking for 12s and willing to work for it.
1.) Power – If you listen to some old school drag racers they may say you need at least 300+RWHP to hit 12’s in most cars. In some heavier cars that may be true but fact is suspensions are more refined these days and cars don’t weight 4,000 lbs. Most PI headed cars will hit the 245-255RWHP mark with basic mods (Pulleys, Timing Adjuster or chip, O/R H or X, K&N or other type of high flow filter and although not a power mod…gears 4.10s or 4.30s). For a bolt on GT this is enough power to get the car into the 12s after you follow the other steps. Keep in mind more power will make it easier to reach your goal or help offset more weight (see next section) but it can be done with less.
2.) Weight - You basic 5 speed coupe without driver weights 3250lbs. So with an average driver weighing about 180lbs that puts your race weight at 3430lbs. At that weight and a power to weight ratio of .075 you would need 258RWHP to hit 12’s. Power to weight is the power of your car (rear wheel) divided by race weight of the car. Using my car when I broke into the 12’s first time I was making 246RWHP and had a race weight of 3250lb, which worked out to a .075 power to weight ratio or .075RWHP per pound of the car. From what I’ve seen a car can get into the 12s with a .075 to .080 P/W ratio. So if your race weight is 3430lbs then 3430 * .075 = 257.25RWHP. As long as you keep this ratio in the .075 to .080 range you are fine plus keep in mind you can drop weight instead of adding power. An example of this is a car with a 3000lb race weight could break into the 12s with 225RWHP (close to stock power on a GT).
Now I’m sure some of you are asking about weight reduction. Basic weight reduction would be rear seat delete, removal of spare tire, jack, tire iron…these would knock a good 70-80lbs from the car. Add a set of welds or light weight race wheels and you are looking at another 60-80lbs. For more information about specific weights and more ideas look here… http://users.adelphia.net/~mustang-...20Reduction.htm
3.) Suspension - I feel that this component has the most leeway so to speak. I’ve seen near stock suspension cars get good weight transfer. I honestly believe a car that meets the other requirements could hit 12s on the stock suspension. However those of you that want to get an edge should read on. First thing I would do is look at springs since most of us want a better stance but still want weight transfer. For that look at fox body 4cyl front springs I usually look to the junkyards for these but most buy stock replacements at a local shop (avoid Moog brand though they are taller than stock specs). For the rear end I go with fox body v8 rear springs cut anywhere from a ¼ to 1 coil to level out the car. Just keep in mind that it’s easier to cut too little than too much spring.
Next I would highly recommend a pair of sub-frame connectors welded in to tie the chassis together. Hard launches on slicks will twist the body and this will help keep it straight. Last piece to really help out is struts I went with Lakewoods because they are readily available and affordable but adjustables can be used as well if you have the budget for them. 70/30s and 90/10’s both work well and I stick with fox body specific struts since the car is lowered. Fox body specific springs are ¾” shorter than stock SN-95 springs so the lower fox body specific struts are shorter.
4.) Traction – I’ll cut to the chase here and just skip over street tires and drag radials and go right to slicks. Not that it can’t be done on these tires but it will take more power, more patience and much more writing on my part so we’ll stick to slicks. Cars in this weight range and power level only need a 26x8.5x15 ET Drag for traction. It’s close to stock tire height and is more than enough to make our cars hook on the track. A better suspension will result in better 60 foot times but even on stock suspension a good burnout on slicks will not spin unless the track is poorly prepped or fluids are on the track. Some people opt for cheap steel wheels which I don’t necessarily recommend since you are keeping extra weight on the axles. This opens you up for possible breakage so I would go with a weld wheel instead even if it’s a pair of used ones for track only purposes. Regardless a 15x8 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 5.5 backspacing will fit perfect, or if you insist on a wider tire like a 10” then a 15x10 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 6.5 backspacing will also work on our cars.
5.) Practice – This is one component that you can’t buy at any store, you can learn it from a text book and you can’t ask your friends about you simply have to get out there. I’m not saying everyone should be like me and hit every test and tune but don’t expect to make one trip and bingo your in the 12’s. I race on slicks for 3 months before hitting my first 12 second pass. Going to slicks alone was a big change that I had to adjust to before I got the hang of and learned to shift better, etc… Take your time, get comfortable in the car and have fun with it. Do that and you’ll achieve your goal.
Now that you know the key components to get into the 12’s you have to keep it all together. In the above situation I would highly recommend an aftermarket shifter just to help keep the transmission alive longer. The biggest weakness in the above is the differential and axles. Not to say they can’t take some abuse because they can, mine went almost a full year of launches on slicks before breaking. I would look at a set of 31 spline axles and an Eaton or Ford 31 spline differential beefed up to keep the back end in one piece.
Quickest way to get to 300 HP?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
blackstallion
Show, Shine, and Tunes!
12
11-23-2005 07:23 AM
