Asking for all MB members help.
#1
02-27-2009, 07:40 AM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Magrathea/California
Posts: 9,865
Asking for all MB members help.
There's a chance for some national common sense to be legislated or for a serious travesty. Please read below and send the email to your senator. It only takes a second and I've even supplied a pre-written polite and respectful letter for you.
February 26, 2009
Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
www.frontsight.com
National Concealed Carry Possible with New Bill, But Nevada's Harry Reid is Trying to Block It.
There is so much misinformation circulating the Internet these days regarding proposed gun control that I do not get involved until I hear from my friend Larry Pratt and his "No Compromise" group of hard working patriots at Gun Owners of America.
Here is the straight scoop on what you need to do RIGHT NOW to help a REAL National Concealed Carry Law get passed.
Follow GOA's request to write your Senators TODAY. (sample letter written for you below)
And if you are a Nevada resident, write, fax and call Harry Reid's office to tell him he better not attempt to sabotage this National Concealed Carry Amendment or you will make it your personal mission in life to make sure he is never re-elected to office.
Please read this information from Gun Owners of America and act on it today...
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Two Great Pro-gun Amendments In The Senate-- But Harry Reid stands in our way!
Thank you for all your activism so far!
Senator John Ensign of Nevada offered his amendment to repeal D.C.'s draconian gun ban today.
But Senators John Thune of South Dakota and David Vitter of Louisiana have also stepped up to the plate. They filed an amendment that would result in REAL national concealed
carry reciprocity -- without adversely affecting no-permit states like Alaska and Vermont.
So now the battle lines are drawn! By the end of the week, the Senate will vote on whether to rule these two pro-gun amendments out of order.
The vote could come on a so-called "cloture" motion to cut off debate (and thus kill the Ensign and Thune/Vitter amendments). Moreover, if the underlying bill is then
passed, the virulently anti-gun jurisdiction of the District of Columbia will be rewarded with a voting member of the House of Representatives.
But first, a little background on the two amendments:
You've all heard of the various "microstamping" proposals crafted by the anti-gunners to ban guns and ammunition nationwide.
The anti-gunners would do this by serial number "microstamping" requirements which are so onerous that guns (or ammunition) would become prohibitively expensive in all
50 states.
In the wake of the Heller case, the District of Columbia's reaction to the Supreme Court's decision declaring its gun laws unconstitutional was to pass legislation which will, as a practical matter, continue its current policy of denying gun licenses to its citizens. But, to add insult to injury, it added a whole bunch of additional anti-gun provisions.
One was a requirement that most guns used for self-defense be capable of microstamping" a cartridge with a unique serial number. Aside from being useless for identifying any criminal who pockets his spent brass, this provision would, even if it were technologically possible, make guns so expensive that no one would buy them.
If a few more liberal jurisdictions follow suit, this could start a chain reaction so that gun manufacturers will eventually be forced to manufacture ALL guns to meet the
new microstamping standards.
The Ensign amendment would completely repeal D.C.'s gun ban and, in the process, help stave off the push for microstamping.
Next, the Thune/Vitter amendment on concealed carry reciprocity is an idea whose time has come. Why should your right to self-defense stop at the state line?
But it must be the right kind of national reciprocity. It must protect states like Alaska and Vermont which do not require a permit to carry concealed at all and it must be
done in a Constitutional manner that protects State's rights.
The Thune/Vitter amendment would do these things -- it is REAL national reciprocity.
But the problem is this: Nevada Senator Harry Reid has moved to cut off debate on the D.C. bill -- using a parliamentary maneuver known as a "cloture" petition -- for
the sole purpose of ruling such pro-gun amendments out of order.
You see, Barack Obama and the liberals who run Congress hate guns. They hate guns so much that they would probably be willing to kill the District's voting representative in
order to preserve the District's gun ban.
The next two days are crucial. While there will be votes in the Senate throughout the day on Thursday -- which may include either of the two pro-gun amendments -- it is likely that the true focus will be on Friday's cloture vote.
ACTION: Contact your two Senators and urge them to vote AGAINST cloture on S. 160 until the Senate has had an opportunity to vote for all pro-gun amendments. As usual,
you can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the pre-written message below.
----- Pre-written letter -----
Dear Senator:
I urge you in the strongest terms to vote against cloture
on S. 160 until senators have had an opportunity to vote on
pro-gun amendments, such as those offered by Senators
Ensign and Thune.
The issue is not whether to give D.C. a voting
representative. The issue is whether to impose a "gag
rule" on those who oppose the District's efforts to use its
draconian gun laws to undermine gun rights in other states.
Cloture -- invoked for the cynical purpose of protecting
D.C.'s anti-gun laws and to silence other pro-gun voices --
is not a vote on D.C. representation. It is a vote against
the Second Amendment.
Please let me know you do not favor silencing pro-gun
voices. Please do not vote for cloture until those voices
are heard.
And once debate is allowed to continue, I ask that you vote
in favor of the Ensign amendment to repeal the District's
gun ban, as well as the Thune amendment for national
concealed carry reciprocity.
Sincerely,
(Place your Name, City, and State here)
February 26, 2009
Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
www.frontsight.com
National Concealed Carry Possible with New Bill, But Nevada's Harry Reid is Trying to Block It.
There is so much misinformation circulating the Internet these days regarding proposed gun control that I do not get involved until I hear from my friend Larry Pratt and his "No Compromise" group of hard working patriots at Gun Owners of America.
Here is the straight scoop on what you need to do RIGHT NOW to help a REAL National Concealed Carry Law get passed.
Follow GOA's request to write your Senators TODAY. (sample letter written for you below)
And if you are a Nevada resident, write, fax and call Harry Reid's office to tell him he better not attempt to sabotage this National Concealed Carry Amendment or you will make it your personal mission in life to make sure he is never re-elected to office.
Please read this information from Gun Owners of America and act on it today...
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Two Great Pro-gun Amendments In The Senate-- But Harry Reid stands in our way!
Thank you for all your activism so far!
Senator John Ensign of Nevada offered his amendment to repeal D.C.'s draconian gun ban today.
But Senators John Thune of South Dakota and David Vitter of Louisiana have also stepped up to the plate. They filed an amendment that would result in REAL national concealed
carry reciprocity -- without adversely affecting no-permit states like Alaska and Vermont.
So now the battle lines are drawn! By the end of the week, the Senate will vote on whether to rule these two pro-gun amendments out of order.
The vote could come on a so-called "cloture" motion to cut off debate (and thus kill the Ensign and Thune/Vitter amendments). Moreover, if the underlying bill is then
passed, the virulently anti-gun jurisdiction of the District of Columbia will be rewarded with a voting member of the House of Representatives.
But first, a little background on the two amendments:
You've all heard of the various "microstamping" proposals crafted by the anti-gunners to ban guns and ammunition nationwide.
The anti-gunners would do this by serial number "microstamping" requirements which are so onerous that guns (or ammunition) would become prohibitively expensive in all
50 states.
In the wake of the Heller case, the District of Columbia's reaction to the Supreme Court's decision declaring its gun laws unconstitutional was to pass legislation which will, as a practical matter, continue its current policy of denying gun licenses to its citizens. But, to add insult to injury, it added a whole bunch of additional anti-gun provisions.
One was a requirement that most guns used for self-defense be capable of microstamping" a cartridge with a unique serial number. Aside from being useless for identifying any criminal who pockets his spent brass, this provision would, even if it were technologically possible, make guns so expensive that no one would buy them.
If a few more liberal jurisdictions follow suit, this could start a chain reaction so that gun manufacturers will eventually be forced to manufacture ALL guns to meet the
new microstamping standards.
The Ensign amendment would completely repeal D.C.'s gun ban and, in the process, help stave off the push for microstamping.
Next, the Thune/Vitter amendment on concealed carry reciprocity is an idea whose time has come. Why should your right to self-defense stop at the state line?
But it must be the right kind of national reciprocity. It must protect states like Alaska and Vermont which do not require a permit to carry concealed at all and it must be
done in a Constitutional manner that protects State's rights.
The Thune/Vitter amendment would do these things -- it is REAL national reciprocity.
But the problem is this: Nevada Senator Harry Reid has moved to cut off debate on the D.C. bill -- using a parliamentary maneuver known as a "cloture" petition -- for
the sole purpose of ruling such pro-gun amendments out of order.
You see, Barack Obama and the liberals who run Congress hate guns. They hate guns so much that they would probably be willing to kill the District's voting representative in
order to preserve the District's gun ban.
The next two days are crucial. While there will be votes in the Senate throughout the day on Thursday -- which may include either of the two pro-gun amendments -- it is likely that the true focus will be on Friday's cloture vote.
ACTION: Contact your two Senators and urge them to vote AGAINST cloture on S. 160 until the Senate has had an opportunity to vote for all pro-gun amendments. As usual,
you can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the pre-written message below.
----- Pre-written letter -----
Dear Senator:
I urge you in the strongest terms to vote against cloture
on S. 160 until senators have had an opportunity to vote on
pro-gun amendments, such as those offered by Senators
Ensign and Thune.
The issue is not whether to give D.C. a voting
representative. The issue is whether to impose a "gag
rule" on those who oppose the District's efforts to use its
draconian gun laws to undermine gun rights in other states.
Cloture -- invoked for the cynical purpose of protecting
D.C.'s anti-gun laws and to silence other pro-gun voices --
is not a vote on D.C. representation. It is a vote against
the Second Amendment.
Please let me know you do not favor silencing pro-gun
voices. Please do not vote for cloture until those voices
are heard.
And once debate is allowed to continue, I ask that you vote
in favor of the Ensign amendment to repeal the District's
gun ban, as well as the Thune amendment for national
concealed carry reciprocity.
Sincerely,
(Place your Name, City, and State here)
#2
02-27-2009, 01:55 PM
i hate to stir the pot, but why the hell would it be so expencive to Microstamp guns and ammunition?
There are many major maufacturers including Gilette who puts RFID chips in every product they sell, and they were able to do it without increasing prices whatsoever.... im sure a microstamp is nowhere near as complex as building an RFID. All it is is a stamp on the firing pin that engraves a "fingerprint" on the round.
I dunno, too one sided. I fully believe that people have the right to bear arms, but i aslo think putting tracking or identification systems in place would do wonders in helping police find killers. Microstamping might not be a fix all but it would definatly aid in helping track down whoever used the gun, and if the gun was stolen they know who'se gun it was and they have 2 directions to search for the killer.
Can anyone explain how this would make affording a firearm impossible? it is not exactly a complex space age technology. RFID chips are infinatly more complex.
Can anyone here provide any evidence that it would make firearms too expencive? .. more likely it will drive the cost of a handgun up like 20 bucks or something. Its not exactly a high tech system.
Im all for being able to have firearms, i feel it is our right as americans. But i dont see why the Gun crowd breaks down and starts crying every time somone tries to implement a system that would help track down somone who may have just killed your mother in cold blood.
There are many major maufacturers including Gilette who puts RFID chips in every product they sell, and they were able to do it without increasing prices whatsoever.... im sure a microstamp is nowhere near as complex as building an RFID. All it is is a stamp on the firing pin that engraves a "fingerprint" on the round.
I dunno, too one sided. I fully believe that people have the right to bear arms, but i aslo think putting tracking or identification systems in place would do wonders in helping police find killers. Microstamping might not be a fix all but it would definatly aid in helping track down whoever used the gun, and if the gun was stolen they know who'se gun it was and they have 2 directions to search for the killer.
Can anyone explain how this would make affording a firearm impossible? it is not exactly a complex space age technology. RFID chips are infinatly more complex.
Can anyone here provide any evidence that it would make firearms too expencive? .. more likely it will drive the cost of a handgun up like 20 bucks or something. Its not exactly a high tech system.
Im all for being able to have firearms, i feel it is our right as americans. But i dont see why the Gun crowd breaks down and starts crying every time somone tries to implement a system that would help track down somone who may have just killed your mother in cold blood.
#3
02-28-2009, 07:53 AM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Magrathea/California
Posts: 9,865
i hate to stir the pot, but why the hell would it be so expencive to Microstamp guns and ammunition?
There are many major maufacturers including Gilette who puts RFID chips in every product they sell, and they were able to do it without increasing prices whatsoever.... im sure a microstamp is nowhere near as complex as building an RFID. All it is is a stamp on the firing pin that engraves a "fingerprint" on the round.
I dunno, too one sided. I fully believe that people have the right to bear arms, but i aslo think putting tracking or identification systems in place would do wonders in helping police find killers. Microstamping might not be a fix all but it would definatly aid in helping track down whoever used the gun, and if the gun was stolen they know who'se gun it was and they have 2 directions to search for the killer.
Can anyone explain how this would make affording a firearm impossible? it is not exactly a complex space age technology. RFID chips are infinatly more complex.
Can anyone here provide any evidence that it would make firearms too expencive? .. more likely it will drive the cost of a handgun up like 20 bucks or something. Its not exactly a high tech system.
Im all for being able to have firearms, i feel it is our right as americans. But i dont see why the Gun crowd breaks down and starts crying every time somone tries to implement a system that would help track down somone who may have just killed your mother in cold blood.
There are many major maufacturers including Gilette who puts RFID chips in every product they sell, and they were able to do it without increasing prices whatsoever.... im sure a microstamp is nowhere near as complex as building an RFID. All it is is a stamp on the firing pin that engraves a "fingerprint" on the round.
I dunno, too one sided. I fully believe that people have the right to bear arms, but i aslo think putting tracking or identification systems in place would do wonders in helping police find killers. Microstamping might not be a fix all but it would definatly aid in helping track down whoever used the gun, and if the gun was stolen they know who'se gun it was and they have 2 directions to search for the killer.
Can anyone explain how this would make affording a firearm impossible? it is not exactly a complex space age technology. RFID chips are infinatly more complex.
Can anyone here provide any evidence that it would make firearms too expencive? .. more likely it will drive the cost of a handgun up like 20 bucks or something. Its not exactly a high tech system.
Im all for being able to have firearms, i feel it is our right as americans. But i dont see why the Gun crowd breaks down and starts crying every time somone tries to implement a system that would help track down somone who may have just killed your mother in cold blood.
they're trying to mandate a technology that doesn't exist in the firearms market be applied in a way that's not physically possible. That's the expensive part. Not to mention re-tooling the entire production facility to support the new forgings. They want the gun to have a little stamp inside it that marks the casings with the serial number of the gun. That's fuggin retarded, as all you have to do is police your frags or not use a semi-auto to make the stamping pointless in any investigative capacity.
The reason for the 2nd is to protect the first. Sometimes you have to do that protection anonymously or the revolution dies then and there. Don't be naive and think that it works any other way.
If you cede power to the government they'll abuse it. If the government cedes power to the people they'll turn their backs on it.
Also the what-if nonsense if beaten simply: my mother would not have been murdered in cold-blood. She'd have put up a fight and returned fire, so I think her blood would'a been boilin' especially at the thought of someone trying to off her. You're only a victim when you allow yourself to be one. You entice crime when you're afraid. Jack... are you afraid?
If you have to retool all of the ammo producing companies and all of the firearms manufacturers, then yes guns will go up in price nearly double overnight as they will not be available for at least a year once the inventory from channel distributors has been whittled away. From experience, a distributor might have a weeks worth of guns on hand at any time. There's 51 weeks left in that year with plenty of buyers and no weapons.
Jack... don't be ignorant. At least think about the response. BTW... you're too late. The senate passed the bill. It'll never clear the house though.
#4
02-28-2009, 09:52 AM
A microstamp is a stamp on the firing pin that will stamp either a code or a serial number on the spent cartridge so the police might have an extra method to track ammunition to the gun it was fired from. It is not hard technology, it is not complicated, it is just a stamp,. it requires no extra working parts, simply the retooling of the firing pin. It is simply an additional standard tracking mechanism to be put on all new handguns. Big ******* deal. lets all go wave our end of the world flags and hole up in our bunkers and take popshots at the guberment who is coming to take our guns.
First off, im all for owning guns. Rifles, Handguns, Assault Rifles, 50cal sniper rifles, whatever you would like. I dont own any guns because i dont want them in the house with 2 young children, as the kids grow older ill probaably end up getting one.
However, if everyone gets to have guns, i am ALL FOR making them safer. If we can put microstamping on them without skyrocketing the price im all for it. Personally i dont think guns should be cheap. i dont think they should be outrageous either. The prices right now seem about right to me. But a 5-10% price increase is NOT that much money. Before anyone starts bringing the gloom and doom about the world ending, dem dems taking our rights away, dey took er jerbs, or any of the other bullshit, take 5 seconds to actually think about what this is.
What the Pro-Gun group is doing is a very old typical propaganda technique, they are telling you that it will drive up the price of handguns making them so expencive nobody can afford them, they are hitting you in the wallet, and the suprising thing r3d is you actually BELIEVE them.
DEY TOOK ER JERBS!
As for if a loved one got shot, does that mean you would rather save 35 bucks on a handgun purchase rather than have an additional method for police to find the killer if your loved one shot back and diddnt hit the mark because they other person shot her dead first?
that is ******* insane.
Im willing to bet there aint a god damn person on this forum board who can show reliable information on the price increase and how a simple Miccrostamp" is going to drive the cost up so nobody can afford guns. You know why? it ant there, it is just another bullshit right wing propaganda technique claiming the same inorant assed tired old mantra "the goverment is tryiong to take you guns and kill you" It is nothing more than a politicial dick measurement between the anti-gun-lobbiests and the pro-gun lobbiests.
R3d, SURELY you can provide us the writeupss thaat explain the OUTARGEOUS price for the process of putting a microstamp on a firing pin? I mean, if yer gonna shove this anti-safety measure down our throats with claims of OUTRAGEOUS price increase, SURELY you can come back and explain how much the price will increase for modifying the firing pin?
You have no leg to stand on this one R3d, sorry. lease dont start calling me "afraid" and "ignorant" because im not gullible to immediatly accept aall the hyperbole as truth.
There is one very very simple way you can 100% beat me on this debate, one way where i will apologize, admit i was 100% wrong and did not know what i was talking about, one way where i will admit defeat.
Show me a non biased study or report that will explain the cost of a simple matter as microstamping and how that will make guns unaffordable.
in other words, back this statement up
The anti-gunners would do this by serial number "microstamping" requirements which are so onerous that guns (or ammunition) would become prohibitively expensive in all 50 states
And please before you respond this has NOTHING to do with limiting gun sales to anyone, this has NOTHING to do with outlawing guns, this has NOTHING to do with the goverment taking away our rights because a stamped cartridge does not render a bullet safe.
The amazing thing is how many people are going to look at those claims as pure truth and never bother to use thier brains for 5 ******* seconds to realize that they are being lied to about the MASSIVE price increase.
Give me a break, if you believe this r3d, i have a bridge to sell you.
If you find something where they are literally trying to take firearms away or outlaw firearms, ill be the first in line to write my congressmen, senator, and the first one at the polls to vote against any firearm illegalization.
but this fluffy foofoocrap? dont waste my time. it is a good thing red. it is a safety issue red. it is a method to rtrack bullets back to the guns that fired them. it is not the end-all answer, but just another method which will help.
#5
02-28-2009, 11:09 AM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Magrathea/California
Posts: 9,865
jack.. you have no idea what you're talking about. you want to pick a point by point e-brawl but you are ignorant (which means uneducated) on the matter and I'm not going to type a ****** book to educate you. Go out and learn what the **** you're talking about dude. Do a good study of the pressures contained by a primer, the thicknesses allowed in case and primer walls, the hardness of all the metal types involved, the impossibilities of imprinting an evidenciary quality microscopic serial number with a firing pin without weakening or penetrating the primer, the fact that any ******* moron can replace a firing pin with one that's not imprinted, the fact that ONLY LAW ABIDING people obey gun laws, and the fact that you're kinda long winded.
I gave you as much notice as the rest of the country had. You were just slow in responding. I keep an eye on what congress is doing so when my pet things come across I'm in a position to make my voice heard.
Jack.. you're too young and naive to even participate in this discussion. You're a liberal and you don't have any knowledge to back up what you've written. I did demonstrate how the prices will skyrocket and you couldn't even comprehend that within the context. When you grow up and become a big boy we can have an intelligent discussion. Till then...push off.
I gave you as much notice as the rest of the country had. You were just slow in responding. I keep an eye on what congress is doing so when my pet things come across I'm in a position to make my voice heard.
Jack.. you're too young and naive to even participate in this discussion. You're a liberal and you don't have any knowledge to back up what you've written. I did demonstrate how the prices will skyrocket and you couldn't even comprehend that within the context. When you grow up and become a big boy we can have an intelligent discussion. Till then...push off.
#6
02-28-2009, 04:59 PM
I had a feeling this might get a little ugly. This type of topic always does.
I grew up around guns, have a hunting license, and go shooting or hunting probably once a year so I not all into guns like some. So for me personally if guns were flat out illegal I wouldn't care. With that said it's unfortunate that law abiding gun owners get punished with all kinds of laws because some gang banger thugs decide to shoot up our urban areas.
I grew up around guns, have a hunting license, and go shooting or hunting probably once a year so I not all into guns like some. So for me personally if guns were flat out illegal I wouldn't care. With that said it's unfortunate that law abiding gun owners get punished with all kinds of laws because some gang banger thugs decide to shoot up our urban areas.
#7
03-01-2009, 10:11 AM
jack.. you have no idea what you're talking about. you want to pick a point by point e-brawl but you are ignorant (which means uneducated) on the matter and I'm not going to type a ****** book to educate you. Go out and learn what the **** you're talking about dude. Do a good study of the pressures contained by a primer, the thicknesses allowed in case and primer walls, the hardness of all the metal types involved, the impossibilities of imprinting an evidenciary quality microscopic serial number with a firing pin without weakening or penetrating the primer, the fact that any ******* moron can replace a firing pin with one that's not imprinted, the fact that ONLY LAW ABIDING people obey gun laws, and the fact that you're kinda long winded.
I gave you as much notice as the rest of the country had. You were just slow in responding. I keep an eye on what congress is doing so when my pet things come across I'm in a position to make my voice heard.
Jack.. you're too young and naive to even participate in this discussion. You're a liberal and you don't have any knowledge to back up what you've written. I did demonstrate how the prices will skyrocket and you couldn't even comprehend that within the context. When you grow up and become a big boy we can have an intelligent discussion. Till then...push off.
I gave you as much notice as the rest of the country had. You were just slow in responding. I keep an eye on what congress is doing so when my pet things come across I'm in a position to make my voice heard.
Jack.. you're too young and naive to even participate in this discussion. You're a liberal and you don't have any knowledge to back up what you've written. I did demonstrate how the prices will skyrocket and you couldn't even comprehend that within the context. When you grow up and become a big boy we can have an intelligent discussion. Till then...push off.
I bet you get all yer information off the NRA website huh? Seeing as how the main point of the article you put on here is that it would SKYROCKET gun costs, below is a tidbit out of a science journal on this.
DEY TOOK ER JERBS!!!!!!!!!!!!
New technology to link cartridge cases to guns by engraving microscopic codes on the firing pin is feasible, but did not work equally well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at the University of California, Davis. More testing in a wider range of firearms is needed, the researchers said.
Read the article. This is a preliminary study, of course there will be some failures,. the wright brothers diddnt just throw some glu and sticks together and make a plane. The idea behind this is very sound and very possible, all they really need to do is some tweaking on the materials used.
But here is what looks ot be the core of the arguement of the article YOU posted.
The anti-gunners would do this by serial number "microstamping" requirements which are so onerous that guns (or ammunition) would become prohibitively expensive in all
50 states.
50 states.
The researchers estimated that setting up a facility to engrave alphanumeric codes on firing pins would cost about $7 to $8 per firing pin in the first year, assuming that such marks would be required on all handguns sold in California, and based on the efficiencies associated with high-volume production costs, Tulleners said.
And there goes your arguement right down the hole, im sure you would be happy to turn this around and say it is about gun control, but it is not, it is about assisting law enforcement find murderers, which for some unknown reason you are so vehemently againsy.
Sorry red, yer just being gullible Step off the propaganda bandwagon and start using your head, maybe your arguement would hold some weight and be a little more than 6th grade name calling and insults.
as for earlier, you said i was afraid?... yeah, i AM afraid... im afraid because there are tons of idiots willing to believe everything they hear and these idiots actually are allowed to vote. Nobody in this country seems to question the valididy of extreme right wing or extreme left wing claims! they just vote as told!
Its all black and white to you. I have stated many times thaat i support american gun owwnership, handguns, rifles, shotguns, assaullt rifles, i believe it is every americans right to own a gun.
yet here you are condeming me as a liberal, simply because i believe in aiding police to find murderers. ... wait what? does that make sence? a liberal who is all for owning assault rifles?....
Both the right and left extremes are so full of **** it is mind boggling. Im not a liberal, im not a conservatist, im a rational thinking adult who has the intelligence to come to his owwn decisions, i will listen to either side but i take BOTH with a grain of salt, and if i see something that looks rediculous all i want is to see it backed up.
Anyways, im done in here, obviously you are not prepared to back up anything you have put in here with anything more than right wing rehetoric, propaganda, and insults (and yes you started those, i guess that was in liu of actually backing up the article you posted)
JACK WINS!
Last edited by JackThe Ripper; 03-01-2009 at 10:15 AM.
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