BTW, a quick gut-check question:

What if you were married and your wife was pregnant. A drunk driver runs over her as she is legally crossing the street. Should he be convicted of one count of manslauter, or two?

Yeah, I was being sarcastic about the whole death penalty, firing squad, and converting thing....

Scott

Do you know that a lot of women name their unborn babies? My daughter Jenna had a name when we were just a few weeks pregnant with her. Most pregnant women also believe that their babies have different personalities while in the womb. Some like certains kinds of music, some react differently to different kinds of food, etc.... Moms just don't walsk around with a mindless package in the bullies waiting for the big day?

Also, while full gestation is 40 weeks, a baby can live outside the womb at 25 weeks. Science is moving this date up with new advancements. 40 years ago, this was not possible. So, it would seem that science can change the diffinition of when a fetus becomes a baby. I like my definition better. They are all babies....no mattter how weeks old in the womb.

One, if the death penalty were part of the equation (and not this whole wait 15 years crap or whatever), or two, if all he gets is to rot in jail, only because the punishment should at least be harsher. Bash all you want, but that's my opinion.

Scott

Well then, your sarcasm is well targeted! and you are 100% correct!

As for names, women have names picked out even before the sperm has a chance to do its magic. I mean, my fiance and I have already talked about baby names and have 2 of each already picked, but I would not put a name to it until it was out of the womb. Just my personal preference.

Scott

See, I knew you had it in you. At least you concede that a fetus does mean something....maybe not a whole person, but at least something.

I guess then every sperm is sacred! Don't waste any - LOL

Gold star for me :Woot:

You guys have kept arguing about the ethics of it. Try looking at the effects of getting rid of abortion.

If a woman REALLY wants to have an abortion she WILL. But she will do it illegally. I garontee Street abortions will be a lot messier then legal abortions in a closed enviroment.

If you make guns illegal, will it stop murder? nope.

Diffrent peoples ethics are diffrent.

But think about a girl in an alley with a coathanger . . . .

I'm pro choice..to an extent..

Underaged girls and rape victims.. I can see an abortion.

But I mean if you're aborting kids because you had a good screw but didn't do the right things to protect yourself..thats your problem, find a new method..

the death penalty is wrong too...

and if ya look at it that way then war is wrong...

As far as I am concerned... war is necesary..

the death penalty I have tolerance for since its used in extreme circumstances... but an unborn baby didnt rape and kill a family of 4 before burning down a house

sperm = sacred? thats a different arguement IMO...

Life = sacred...

I believe in the death penalty and I'm pro choice. You kill someone you die yourself, short and sweet. As far as abortion, it's the woman's choice. It's all about circumstances when dealing w/ abortion. Leave it to the woman.

A form of abortion....
 

So-called "Partial-birth" abortion is performed in the second and third trimesters and entails (1) inducing a breech delivery with forceps, (2) delivering the legs, arms and torso only, (3) puncturing the back of the skull with scissors or a trochar, (4) inserting a suction curette into the skull, (4) suctioning the contents of the skull so as to collapse it, (5) completing the delivery. A partial breech delivery is not considered a "birth" at common law, where it is the passage of the head that is essential.

That is ABSOLUTELY wrong, i dont care what anyone says, if that doesnt open your eyes then i dont know what will, that is a very common used abortion technique and it is nothing but pure evil, i am completly and utterly disgusted that people can say this is right.... what about now? is he/she a living human being, i can gurantee you its moving around ready for its so called mother or father to hold it and love it... but wait law says that its not born until the head is out.


Absolutely disgusting

I am against abortion at a certain point..

After the first..trimester? It shouldn't be allowed.

Basically, if you were raped or something, and you are unsure on whether or not you want to keep it.. that trimester is long enough to think it over. Its not like you can forget when you're waking up every morning vomiting.

Once you get into the stages where this thing has formed and moves.. then to me, it is alive, it is a being.

This may sound cruel, but it is parasitic, parasites are alive beings.

Back in biology we were discussing on if something was alive or not. Its basically, if it grows, if it moves, if it breathes.

There may be extreme circumstances where the womans body will reject the baby, or the baby rejects the womans body, or is somehow damaging her.. it may be good reason to abort.

But if you're perfectly healthy and then one day after 4 months or so you just up an decide "welp time to drop this thing in my stomach" ..you shouldn't be able to.

And if the woman is one of those people who wants to be in the bathroom or the alley with a coathanger..it should be considered murder.

I remember a story on..I think CourtTV where this girl and her boyfriend were in a hotel, and she had him beat her in the stomach.. pretty brutal. The infant died.

He was charged with murder, while she was not.

If you consent to something like that, you should be charged as a murderer as well.

---On a side note, the whole death penalty thing..

I am for that, I beleive in things such as 'an eye for an eye' if you are one to kill an innocent person, I beleive you should be killed. I beleived it should be done QUICKLY however. You shouldn't be able to sit in prison, and use my tax money to eat for 30 years.

Then again..I'm for public hangings and whippings too.. cruel and unusual? Possibly.. but the little gangbanger kids who wanted to try to break in my car would think twice after being smack with some leather infront of the whole town.

Hangings.. its just a good message to people.. 'heres what happens when you want to kill another person'

Then again..I still beleive rapists and child molestors should die..

I have put this quote in another thread a couple weeks back, but I feel it is best used here as well. I agree with you 100% and I believe Toby and Willie said it best:

"Take all the rope in texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street,
for all the people to see...

...We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets
Its time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send em all to their maker and he'll settle em down"

It'll probably raise a stir here as well, but it is the truth, and if that policy were put into action, I don't see how it couldn't help to lessen crime. No more going to prison, where you have a roof over your head, cable tv, basketball, weightlifting, and as long as you can find someone smaller than you, all the free head you could ever want.

Scott

I was joking. There is a Monty Python song ..."Every Sperm is sacred...."

There are much more cruel things we can do to people w/o killing them that would deter more crime then the current, poor death penalty system.

Do you think anybody when they committ a crime worry that they might get caught and when they do, might be put to death? No....they always think that they might get away with it and even if they get caught, they will have years to fight it.

The new death penalty should consist of slowly dipping the perp into "liquid hot MAGMA" *pinky to the mouth*

You are 100% correct there. My argument is that the system should be less lenient and get rid of this whole "years to fight it" BS. Let's just get rid of them and move on.

Scott

I agree 100% any kind of doctor that could even preform that has no respect for me.


I believe there only limited reasons abortion should be even considered.

1. If the mother was raped, there is a very slim chance that the mother could raise the child knowing how it was conceived.

2. If the birth of the baby will without a doubt be life threatening to the mother or child.

Just because a girl is "young" is no excuse to have one, she was old enough to spread her legs, she's old enough to take responsibility for the action.

When me and my wife first got pregnant (I was 19 she was 18) we could have easily decided to have an abortion, hell she wasn't working, and I was only part time. I went full time at $8 an hour, and we had to live with my dad for about a year. BUT, we took responsibility for our actions and I have not one single regret about it!!!!

As far as abortion goes I am definitely against it. After having my 3 week old baby die you definitely think seriously about it. I figure you have to give every living thing a chance to live. You could be aborting the person who can find the cure fir cancer or even the common cold. If you play you got to pay. With all the people looking to adopt newborns why murder them. And that is exactly what it is MURDER
:closed:

wow... awesome avatar!

Bottom line is this.

"We could argue about this until our fingers fall of from typing so much, but this will never be resolved. We might as well just close this thread and move on because this is an ongoing matter that will have no winner, but will have alot of losers (the children involved)."


:topicclosed: :nomore:



:eek2:

Greg Thank you I like your pix. Is that your girlfriend if not I would love an introduction.

I have no idea who the heck she is...

lol... someone made me that sig over @ sn95forums

LMAO!

Yah, i got about halfway through tyhis thready and all i saw was the Waterboy and Tangerine-dream duking it out.

All i know is this, some of you pro-Lifer's really kinda freak me out. Yer so set on this high and mighty moral stance and you leave absolutly no room for any arguement.

Kinda like salem witch trial stuff.

Anyways, all i know is im glad yer not all the ones making the decisions, cause then were gonna have a nation filled with dumpster babys, pregenant 14 year olds, babys born from incest, and a hell of a lot more people on wellfare than we do now.

yeah.

sounds great.


Yer arguments are getting really lame too, yer starting to resort to crap like "What if the baby you were gonna abort would cure cancer" and crap like that.


If you all want to sit there on your highhorse and scream and throw stuff at people getting pregnant, go ahead, thats your choice, but America has spoken time and time again, abortion is legal for a reason.

Deal with it.

At this time, the current poll is 15 for pro-life, 20 for pro-choice.

Actually, here is my stance on pregnancy in general.

If there was a drug that people could take to become sterile/barren, and a drug that could be taken top make you potent capable, i think everybody should have to take the "Sterilizer" once you have gone through life a bit, gotten to a situation where you can properly raise a baby, etc, etc, then you can get a licence, get yourself put back to normal and have a goddamn kid.

People seem to not notice the fact that there are over 6 billion people in this planet. how many people can the planetary resources provide for?

with birthrates constantly raising, mortality rates constanly lowering, eventually were gonna hit a critical point of population where forms of population control will be an absolute necessity in order to preserve the human species.

but if you pro-lifers wanna go ahead and load us up with wellfare mommys, incestial children and dumpster babys go on with your bad selves.

alright chris...

The way I see it is if you do something, that results in someone's life ending... You murdered someone.

I don't see anything that can justify it.

I don't understand how age could justify it.
I don't understand why it matters where it happens.

Fact is... murder is murder and abortion is murder...

Kind of black and white IMO...