Creation?
#1
07-24-2006, 08:57 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 981
Creation?
I believe that God created the everything and is allways present in our lifes.
I found if interesting when Jack the Ripper posted this:
"i think humans are no more than a byproduct of a greater design. not the purpose of it, but a resulting product that may or may not have been the point of creation in the first place.
However im sure most creationists think of it much along the lines that you do(talking to me).
either way, as line bigfoot, there is really no substancial proof that aliens exist or have been to earth. However, mathematically it should be a garaunteed thing that life (intelligent or not) does exist on other planets. I remember some show on the discovery channel where they figured if 1 in a million stars has planets, and one in a million of those stars with planets have a planet like earth with a buttload of water, and one in a million of those actually spawned life, and one in a million of those planets acually has intelligent life, that there would be millions of other intelligent species throughout the galaxy.
they say that there are more stars in the milkyway than there are grains of sand in all of the beaches in the whole world combined."
and later stated:
"Uh yeah, dont want to start any religious debate or anything, what im basically saying is i believe in some sort of intelligent design for the whole creation of everything. i dont belive it just so conveniently happened to happen, rather than there was something guiding the occurance of it and having a purpose for creation in the first place. I dont really believe in the perverbial god in the heavens with a white robe and white hair, but i dont think that the universe would have just happened to exist. I think there was some sort of intelligent force driving the creation.
However, i dont really believe that human beings are the point of everything. And i wouldnt put it past the "intelligent designer" to even have the foggiest clue that we are here. We just happened to be more of a byproduct as is everything else. I think "Existance" in general was probable the main goal and driving force whatever the hell it was that created everything. You could almost attribute a "god" title to whatever the force of creation was. But i dont really believe it has to be "Sentient" with the ability to make decisions and such of irrelevant matters rather than requiring an intelligence of a sort in order to get the job that it is trying to accomplish done.
kind of a wierd way of looking at things. Its not the standard idea behind "Intelligent design" that most people attribute, which is very much one of a sentient "hands on" god that created everything.
I guess one good way to describe it, **** happens, and we in this case are the ****. Lol.
i just dont really think we were the point of it all, rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events.
EDIT:: So in this view, humans are really nothing too special. neither would aliens, so i dont see why if we managed to get a life and evolve to where we are, why couldnt other races on other planets?
but we still rock none the less. lol..."
so lets discuss this controversial issue!
I found if interesting when Jack the Ripper posted this:
"i think humans are no more than a byproduct of a greater design. not the purpose of it, but a resulting product that may or may not have been the point of creation in the first place.
However im sure most creationists think of it much along the lines that you do(talking to me).
either way, as line bigfoot, there is really no substancial proof that aliens exist or have been to earth. However, mathematically it should be a garaunteed thing that life (intelligent or not) does exist on other planets. I remember some show on the discovery channel where they figured if 1 in a million stars has planets, and one in a million of those stars with planets have a planet like earth with a buttload of water, and one in a million of those actually spawned life, and one in a million of those planets acually has intelligent life, that there would be millions of other intelligent species throughout the galaxy.
they say that there are more stars in the milkyway than there are grains of sand in all of the beaches in the whole world combined."
and later stated:
"Uh yeah, dont want to start any religious debate or anything, what im basically saying is i believe in some sort of intelligent design for the whole creation of everything. i dont belive it just so conveniently happened to happen, rather than there was something guiding the occurance of it and having a purpose for creation in the first place. I dont really believe in the perverbial god in the heavens with a white robe and white hair, but i dont think that the universe would have just happened to exist. I think there was some sort of intelligent force driving the creation.
However, i dont really believe that human beings are the point of everything. And i wouldnt put it past the "intelligent designer" to even have the foggiest clue that we are here. We just happened to be more of a byproduct as is everything else. I think "Existance" in general was probable the main goal and driving force whatever the hell it was that created everything. You could almost attribute a "god" title to whatever the force of creation was. But i dont really believe it has to be "Sentient" with the ability to make decisions and such of irrelevant matters rather than requiring an intelligence of a sort in order to get the job that it is trying to accomplish done.
kind of a wierd way of looking at things. Its not the standard idea behind "Intelligent design" that most people attribute, which is very much one of a sentient "hands on" god that created everything.
I guess one good way to describe it, **** happens, and we in this case are the ****. Lol.
i just dont really think we were the point of it all, rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events.
EDIT:: So in this view, humans are really nothing too special. neither would aliens, so i dont see why if we managed to get a life and evolve to where we are, why couldnt other races on other planets?
but we still rock none the less. lol..."
so lets discuss this controversial issue!
#3
07-24-2006, 09:06 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 981
1.I aggree fully with the statement "i just dont really think we were the point of it all."
-we were created to worship God
2.I couldnt DISSAGGREE more with the statement "rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events."
-humans are the only being that has inteligent thought,speech, and behavior.
therefore how can we just be an accident.
-we were created to worship God
2.I couldnt DISSAGGREE more with the statement "rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events."
-humans are the only being that has inteligent thought,speech, and behavior.
therefore how can we just be an accident.
#4
07-24-2006, 09:08 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by TEXASPAUL
1.I aggree fully with the statement "i just dont really think we were the point of it all."
-we were created to worship God
2.I couldnt DISSAGGREE more with the statement "rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events."
-humans are the only being that has inteligent thought,speech, and behavior.
therefore how can we just be an accident.
-we were created to worship God
2.I couldnt DISSAGGREE more with the statement "rather than something that just happened through opportune moments and events."
-humans are the only being that has inteligent thought,speech, and behavior.
therefore how can we just be an accident.
I agree 100% we are no accident.
#6
07-24-2006, 09:12 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by TEXASPAUL
but to a some sence we are the ONLY beings with all three of those...
do you think the dogs are having this same conversation with eachother?
do you think the dogs are having this same conversation with eachother?
how old are you anyway....you have dubbed yourself the youngest member.
#7
07-24-2006, 09:14 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yeah... i dont really quite fall into an real organized beliefs...
Not too into the idea of creationism, i feel it is rather arrogant of people to assume that this was all about them.
the world used to be as big as the universe itself to the perspective of the old hunters and gatherers. They had no idea what laid beyond the morizon much of the time, less about what was up or below.
however people have always been curious and eventually the idea of "why we are here" came up, somebody felt he knew the answer and it was the first form of religion. Over time it was refined and changed, as the knowledge of the world increased the unexplained became less and less, and the unexplained had always been explained through myths and religion.
nowadays we have the whole world and other worlds mapped out with satellites, we have pretty good understanding of how different things interact with other things to create results. Be it crime and justice, or explaining the rings of saturn.
science has really pushed the limits of religion, and religion in more modernized civilizations is constantly being challanged by science and consinued understanding of the world, solar system, galaxy, universe, and now even new m theory and quantum physics.
There are a lot of people who challance the existance of god, and say that everything can be explained without the belief in a God. However, without the belief of an architech of some sorts who created the rules and boundrys in the fabric of existance itself, the fundamental question of "Why" cannot really be explained.
You got the big bang, and right before the singularity, and before that they believe other membranes existed, something about the rubbing of one into another to create a new existance.
either way...
yah i dont much believe in a judgemental god. I dont believe in the perverbial life after death, i think there is a continuance of some sort but that does not require the concious understanding of the events that happen after the brain dies.
there has to be a point though. i just dont think we are it. once i decided in my own opinion that we were simply a side effect of the events of importance, rather than the end result, things just seem to make more sence to me. kind of being able to step back and think of it from a new point of view, and it is a point of view that includes many more possibilitys for what is and is not out there. I mean come on, the universe is so big nobody can truly appreciate and comprehend the size of it, it is so damn big that the human species will probably be extinct before exploring even the smallest fraction of a fraction of what is out there.... so if WE were the point, why is everything else there in the first place?
Howevever these are my own beliefs and i enjoy talking about this stuff and i will not flame anybody who says the world was created in 7 days and that we were the point of all of this.
Religions have always given moral and spiritual guidance, offered hope when there was none, and added strength in stressful times. it has brought people together, made cause for great celebration, and done wonderful things for the world in whole....
well.. there are some versions of religions that are probably not very progressive to maankind as a whole, religious wars, religious killings, but even christianity and the catholics and the jewish have been guilty of such actions from time to times. still, i believe the good outweighs the bad.
anyways.,.. discuss...
Not too into the idea of creationism, i feel it is rather arrogant of people to assume that this was all about them.
the world used to be as big as the universe itself to the perspective of the old hunters and gatherers. They had no idea what laid beyond the morizon much of the time, less about what was up or below.
however people have always been curious and eventually the idea of "why we are here" came up, somebody felt he knew the answer and it was the first form of religion. Over time it was refined and changed, as the knowledge of the world increased the unexplained became less and less, and the unexplained had always been explained through myths and religion.
nowadays we have the whole world and other worlds mapped out with satellites, we have pretty good understanding of how different things interact with other things to create results. Be it crime and justice, or explaining the rings of saturn.
science has really pushed the limits of religion, and religion in more modernized civilizations is constantly being challanged by science and consinued understanding of the world, solar system, galaxy, universe, and now even new m theory and quantum physics.
There are a lot of people who challance the existance of god, and say that everything can be explained without the belief in a God. However, without the belief of an architech of some sorts who created the rules and boundrys in the fabric of existance itself, the fundamental question of "Why" cannot really be explained.
You got the big bang, and right before the singularity, and before that they believe other membranes existed, something about the rubbing of one into another to create a new existance.
either way...
yah i dont much believe in a judgemental god. I dont believe in the perverbial life after death, i think there is a continuance of some sort but that does not require the concious understanding of the events that happen after the brain dies.
there has to be a point though. i just dont think we are it. once i decided in my own opinion that we were simply a side effect of the events of importance, rather than the end result, things just seem to make more sence to me. kind of being able to step back and think of it from a new point of view, and it is a point of view that includes many more possibilitys for what is and is not out there. I mean come on, the universe is so big nobody can truly appreciate and comprehend the size of it, it is so damn big that the human species will probably be extinct before exploring even the smallest fraction of a fraction of what is out there.... so if WE were the point, why is everything else there in the first place?
Howevever these are my own beliefs and i enjoy talking about this stuff and i will not flame anybody who says the world was created in 7 days and that we were the point of all of this.
Religions have always given moral and spiritual guidance, offered hope when there was none, and added strength in stressful times. it has brought people together, made cause for great celebration, and done wonderful things for the world in whole....
well.. there are some versions of religions that are probably not very progressive to maankind as a whole, religious wars, religious killings, but even christianity and the catholics and the jewish have been guilty of such actions from time to times. still, i believe the good outweighs the bad.
anyways.,.. discuss...
#10
07-24-2006, 09:19 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Let me say one more thing before i bail for the evening,
just because i dont believe we were the direct focus of things does not mean that human kind is any less important or does not have a form of purpose, and it does not mean that at some point we will be involved in a critical point that things might be leading up to.
but i do believe in life beyond earth and intelligent life at that, and they were not the focal point of the purpose either, but still have a role to play none the less.
personally i think the sole purpose is existance in itself. And we all have roles to play in it. but it isnt just us humans.
just because i dont believe we were the direct focus of things does not mean that human kind is any less important or does not have a form of purpose, and it does not mean that at some point we will be involved in a critical point that things might be leading up to.
but i do believe in life beyond earth and intelligent life at that, and they were not the focal point of the purpose either, but still have a role to play none the less.
personally i think the sole purpose is existance in itself. And we all have roles to play in it. but it isnt just us humans.
#11
07-24-2006, 09:20 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by TEXASPAUL
do you believe that there is absloute truth?
Why or why not?
Why or why not?
however, universal truth must hold true to the whole universe, not just our wet little planet. lol
#12
07-24-2006, 09:24 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just curious, for those who are creationists, there is a level of rejection of science that must be determined in order to hold such beliefs.
where is that line drawn anyways?
you have people who refuse western medicine, relying strictly on faith and prayer. Well, people died faster before western medecine and science came into play. Ive heared before when it is yer time it is yer time and that is gods plan. Well if you chose to reject medicine and die, that was gods choice. If you embrace medicine instead and survive, then god's plan was disrupted by a man, which would prove him to be fallable?
im out, see ya all tomorrow
where is that line drawn anyways?
you have people who refuse western medicine, relying strictly on faith and prayer. Well, people died faster before western medecine and science came into play. Ive heared before when it is yer time it is yer time and that is gods plan. Well if you chose to reject medicine and die, that was gods choice. If you embrace medicine instead and survive, then god's plan was disrupted by a man, which would prove him to be fallable?
im out, see ya all tomorrow
#13
07-24-2006, 09:38 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 981
First of all i am a Christian which means im a creationist...if u want to put a label on me..lol
there is absolute truth therefore we have faith.
The Bible is truth.
-archaeology has always been "evidence" that the bible is fact
-all 333 prophecys that are in the old testament about Jesus were fullfilled by Him; the scientific probabillity to fulfill only 48 of those is 1 in 10 to the 157th power; mathmetitians say anything over 1in 10 to the 11 is physically impossible
-the bible has over 40 authors aggreeing without contradiction, over a 1500 year time,the couldnt meet with eachother to make sure they werent going to contradict eachother.
and one question
1.Do you belive in heaven and hell?
there is absolute truth therefore we have faith.
The Bible is truth.
-archaeology has always been "evidence" that the bible is fact
-all 333 prophecys that are in the old testament about Jesus were fullfilled by Him; the scientific probabillity to fulfill only 48 of those is 1 in 10 to the 157th power; mathmetitians say anything over 1in 10 to the 11 is physically impossible
-the bible has over 40 authors aggreeing without contradiction, over a 1500 year time,the couldnt meet with eachother to make sure they werent going to contradict eachother.
and one question
1.Do you belive in heaven and hell?
#14
07-24-2006, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by Jack The Ripper
Just curious, for those who are creationists, there is a level of rejection of science that must be determined in order to hold such beliefs.
where is that line drawn anyways?
you have people who refuse western medicine, relying strictly on faith and prayer. Well, people died faster before western medecine and science came into play. Ive heared before when it is yer time it is yer time and that is gods plan. Well if you chose to reject medicine and die, that was gods choice. If you embrace medicine instead and survive, then god's plan was disrupted by a man, which would prove him to be fallable?
where is that line drawn anyways?
you have people who refuse western medicine, relying strictly on faith and prayer. Well, people died faster before western medecine and science came into play. Ive heared before when it is yer time it is yer time and that is gods plan. Well if you chose to reject medicine and die, that was gods choice. If you embrace medicine instead and survive, then god's plan was disrupted by a man, which would prove him to be fallable?
I'm not a big religious person, nor am I big religious buff. However, through literature studies in college, referencing some of the ancient myths, there are several events from myths that are extremely similar to events in the Bible (Don't ask me for specifics as I don't remember. I just know we discussed them in class.) I mean, in general, the ancient myths with the various Gods and such are totally disregarded, but how do you explain the similarities? We see the myths as "stories" so what makes the Bible any more than a story written thousands of years ago? We have books that are several hundred years old written by various authors that haven't changed. What exactly makes the Bible anything more than a book written several hundred years ago?
Another issue I have is the whole evolution argument. I don't understand how, with the scientific PROOF, that evolution can be disregarded. I suppose because it goes against the typical creationist beliefs it is hard for "true" creationists to belief that something exists that God didn't explicitly create, but the evidence is there. I mean, what about mutations due to radiation and such? Did God purposely expose the person to radiation to change their form or did outside forces create the problem? I think most would agree that the problem came as a result of things we as humans did here on Earth.
The religious arguments could go on forever. The bottom line is, everyone is going to believe something different, and there will never be a common ground amongst the entire population.
#15
07-24-2006, 10:30 PM
Evolution is only discared by hardcore religious fanatics because it goes against everything in the bible and everything their religion stands for. When darwanism is accepted you can basically discard almost all of the religions and their beliefs.
#16
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by MattJ
Evolution is only discared by hardcore religious fanatics because it goes against everything in the bible and everything their religion stands for. When darwanism is accepted you can basically discard almost all of the religions and their beliefs.
I am not going to say that "God" doesn't exist, but I don't necessarily believe He exists in the state in which most Christian religions believe him to be, just as someone in an above post said. I believe that there has to be a reason for everything to exist the way it does, but I am not even sure that we would/could understand it even if we knew. The label of "God" could be given to what ever the reason is.
The Deists (ex. Benjamin Franklin) believed that that universe was essentially a machine set in motion by something superior and then basically left alone to run itself, that basically whatever happened within the machine happened as a result of the inputs, not controlled by the superior being (whatever it may be). I think this may be where I fall, as I believe that there has to be something that started it all, but that is not necessarily part of the day to day events that occur.
#17
07-25-2006, 01:00 PM
A lot of you make some really good points! I agree that it's pretty arrogant to think we are the only intelligent beings in the universe. I personally don't know if I believe in god or not. I'm 28 and still trying to figure it out. I went to a private christian school most of my life and was really turned off by the arrogance of people who felt they were better than someone else because of their faith. I also was turned off by people who wanted to lecture others about faith and religion, but yet were total ****** or hypocrites. So was I turned off by religion itself??? Probably not, but I was really turned off by the people who supposedly are "good religious people", but yet hypocrites.....yes.
I feeling at this point in my life is that I don't need religion to be considered a good person. If I do good, treat people the way they are supposed to be treated, and live life in the best manner I possibly can I will be just fine and if there is a god he will recognize that.
I feeling at this point in my life is that I don't need religion to be considered a good person. If I do good, treat people the way they are supposed to be treated, and live life in the best manner I possibly can I will be just fine and if there is a god he will recognize that.
#18
07-25-2006, 01:04 PM
IMO creation has absoultley nothing to do with other intelligent life in the universe. they are two completley different topics
i do not beleive that some mythical, supreme, all powerful being created the universe. i do not beleive we are here for any reason at all. we are alive because we evolved that way. our minds became so smart, that we conjured up the "idea" of conciousness and for some, a soul.
religion sprouted because people are afraid of dying. and religion came and saved everyone! if you are a good person, and go to church you wont go to hell/swim in a black abyss for eternity.
sorry if i offend anybody, but religion is bull****. it has a hold of a rediculous amount of people, it's almost sad to see. some people need to start thinking..more evolved
when we die, we die. there's no more, thats it. you got one shot at life...dont **** it up
i do not beleive that some mythical, supreme, all powerful being created the universe. i do not beleive we are here for any reason at all. we are alive because we evolved that way. our minds became so smart, that we conjured up the "idea" of conciousness and for some, a soul.
religion sprouted because people are afraid of dying. and religion came and saved everyone! if you are a good person, and go to church you wont go to hell/swim in a black abyss for eternity.
sorry if i offend anybody, but religion is bull****. it has a hold of a rediculous amount of people, it's almost sad to see. some people need to start thinking..more evolved
when we die, we die. there's no more, thats it. you got one shot at life...dont **** it up
#21
07-25-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by smg32208
read ANGELS & DEMONS by dan brown. its the book he wrote before the da vinci code. u might change yr thoughts on religion. i hate reading books and its the only book i ever liked
#25
07-25-2006, 02:17 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 981
God made us to worship Him!
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
#26
07-25-2006, 02:38 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by TEXASPAUL
God made us to worship Him!
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
#27
07-25-2006, 02:40 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by TEXASPAUL
God made us to worship Him!
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
Do you have a copy of the Bible?
If not you could look up on the internet...
Genesis 1,2,&3
i think it would give you some things to think about...
Religion is a tool.
and I am in no way attempting to flame anyone who believes in religion.
Im with Badfish....when yur done yur done...you dont go up, you dont go down....all you do is melt back into the earth where you came from and are fertalizer for the grass above you.
#29
07-25-2006, 02:52 PM
yea i kno its fiction, but it(angels & demons) also says religion was created to attempt to stop or slow down science because.... i cant remember exactly the reason for this but something about science being evil. its always used for bad purposes. improvements in technology like weapons. stuff like that. ill reread the section and tell u exactly what it says
(makes perfect sense to me)
read the first few pages of the bible. it how was the earth created? the answer: god said let there be land, let there be water. tree of knowledge or something like that. eat the apple and gain knowledge. punish her for eatin apple. yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
(makes perfect sense to me)
read the first few pages of the bible. it how was the earth created? the answer: god said let there be land, let there be water. tree of knowledge or something like that. eat the apple and gain knowledge. punish her for eatin apple. yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
