I notice that my front tires like to lose grip in the corners sometimes. I have a completely stock suspension on it. And stock type tires. Thats oversteer right? When Im going fast through a corner my front will slide a little and I have to catch it.

How can I get rid of this problem? Should I just get better tires or do I need chassis bracing?

 

Tires, sfc's, springs struts, sway bars, tubular a arms, poly bushings, the list is endless.

 

Most people don't like the Goodyears that come from the factory with the car. They are not cool or some other reason, but despite being rough riding, loud, and "stock", the Goodyears are about the best for cross country (curvey roads). Here in the southwest we have a lot of high speed driving and my 04 GT has never even felt loose. Sidewall stiffness has a lot to do with keeeping it under control. The first thing to look at are the tires. If the tires are not grabbing, nothing else matters.

 

im into autocrossing and road racing. imo, the stock good years suck...
that being said, if the tires arent grabbing there are other things that will help it grab. its not always best to leave all the work up to the tires... you can change other components of your suspension to take the work load off of your failing tires. ie- strut tower brace, sway bars, control arms, basically what fritobandito listed earlier...

 

You can spend thousands of dollars (including labor) and end up with Corvette like performance and not worry about it. Your upgrades would equal a tremendous expense to achieve what? I made the wrong assumption that you were not a roadracer or autocross driver.

 

i wasnt trying to cut down your post.. just trying to help out more.
i dont know if he road races or not, i would think its mostly street driving. minor suspension upgrades like a strut tower brace are much cheaper than purchasing new tires... also, you said the stock tires are great but in his post he says he has "stock like" tires. i dont really know what that means but if they're stock good years or close to them then that wasnt enough for him. suspension mods come next.

 

Well the most problem may be in the tires. Theyre just some cheap tires I bought for the winter. I had sumitumos and nittos on it but these are Douglas ones from Wally World.....:loser:

I do not do any autocross but I would like to go sometime soon. What would be the FIRST thing I should buy that would help the most?

Whats the best suspension for less than $1500?

 

first thing, get some good tires on the front.. i have fuzions and i love em, they're louder than most but i dont mind because my exhaust covers it up. after that it really depends on what you want to do. if you're on a budget i would suggest the bullit shocks/struts, h&r springs (if you dont have springs already), upper and lower rear control arms, rear sway bar, front strut tower brace.. thats basically my setup right now along with a couple other things. it's really hard to set up a car to do good on both the road course and a 1/4 mile because on a quarter mile you want a loose feel with lots of weight distribution but on a road course you want everything tight. so if you're more into the strip then i would suggest some lakewood 70-30 shocks/struts no front sway bar, upper and lower rear control arms (must be adjustable), etc etc... its really up to what you want to do with the car...

 

Tires, suspension and brakes. These are all weaknesses in these cars.

The Douglas tires sound like they're probably awful. Sell them to an unsuspecting chevy driver and pretend you never owned them.

As for the rest, a read of your mods says you are the typical Mustang modifier: Lots of go fast, no handling, no brakes. I build cars in the opposite order: Brakes first, followed by handling, followed by tranny and gears, followed by motor. You're playing catchup, but here's the drill...

Always run quality tires, particularly on a daily driver. If handling is your thing, but you can't afford to be buying new tires every 6 months, pick a quality tire with a wear rating over 300. Drag radials with wear ratings of 100 or less just won't last. I like the Firestone Firehawk tires I run on my ride (295/35 18's on the back [10 1/2" wheels], 275/35 18's on the front). SVTOA has named this tire as the "official" tire they recommend for Mustangs. They cost a good bit less than Michelins or Pirellis, but more than those off-the-wall Douglas tires you're sliding around on. If you can afford it, a good compromise is to buy 4 nice 9" wheels at the same time. That way you can rotate your tires - something I cannot do (but the look of the polished deep dish 10.5's on the back is sweet, and I can afford them).

After solving the tire (and perhaps wheel) problem, I'd consider upgrading your brakes. If you're broke, at least get good pads front and back. Combined with good tires, these can save your *** in SO many ways! If you have $500 to spend, upgrade the front discs with a good Bullit or Cobra brake kit. Got more money? Spring for the rears to match!

If you've got a convertible (couldn't tell from your sig), consider a Steeda strut tower brace and sub-frame connectors. In stock form the ragtops (I have one) are far too flexible to handle well. Stiffen up the chassis and you'll handle better. Coupes also benefit from this treatment, though the priority for a coupe would be lower than a convertible.

A good set of progressive sport springs comes next, and I recommend swapping out the front struts and rear shocks at the same time if yours are about worn out. Adjustable units are the way to go, and avoid springs that will lower your car more than between 1 and 1.5 inches. Eibach, Steeda and Maximum Motorsports make excellent spring sets. Bilstein makes outstanding shocks (for outrageous prices), with Tokico probably ranking second, Koni maybe third, etc. KYB units are excellent buys, and are fine for street use.

This is just the beginning, of course, but you get the idea. If you want to go more extreme, check out the Steeda and Maximum Motorsports sites - these boys offer entire new suspensions, down to every last control arm, bushing and bolt!

One bit of advice: Choose the primary function you want your car to fulfill NOW, not after you start throwing parts on the car. Suspensions that will shave seconds off your lap time won't be any help at the drag strip, and if you go too far up the performance curve, your commute ride quality can really get rough! Correctly matched suspension components are very important - mixing a loose front suspension intended for drag racing with a tight rear end set up for road racing can get you in trouble!

tripleblack

 

i always thought of oversteer as your wheel is completly turned in one direction but your car keeps going straight.

stop taking those 30 mph turns at 70 and you should be good to go.

 

i have sumitumos as well and took it up in the mountains the other day... i was amazed at how well my stang took the corners, i honestly felt like i owned the road like i never have before......... but, the other cars i've driven up there were a 95 accord and a 94 200sx.... so, i don't know, but i love the way my stang handles compared to my other rides..... obviously the rear wheel drive handles better.... just my two cents

 

LOL, Yes but its just SO much fun!

 

you'll all have to excuse me for being irritated at the above but it seems that not a damn one of you knows anything about settting up suspension on stangs and I didn't see a single answer that would fix the problem. Jeeebus tap dancin mice...

First. Oversteer and understeer are easy to fix but not cheap. If you want to build a badazz suspension and skip all the really expensive wastes of money pay attention, if not use the lack of advice you've already gotten.

There's only 1 way to really make a mustang handle and that's a coil over conversion. I've been through them all (really) and nothing comes close. For 1500 bucks, you can get yourself a front coil over kit (you don't need the rear yet) from MM probably installed. Use your stock a-arms, MM CC plates and a MM bilstein CO kit with MM struts. It's so not expensive for the amount of performance benefit you get. You'll have enough to get a set of H&R super sport rear springs and installation done.

Once you have the front done with CO the rest is easy. Don't cheap out and get some QA1 or D&D kit and stay far away from Granatelli (GMS). Maximum motorsports and Griggs are the only ones I would touch. You don't need a k-member just yet but later on you will want one.

I guarantee, from hard experience that you will not even know your own car anymore after a front CO conversion. It'll turn hard and fast and you'll have to learn how to drive it again because it's so much better.

Lastly, tires mean jack. If they hold air and are z rated they'll do. I will say that the stock badyears are horrible but adequate for street driving. If you want to put a GOOD tire on your car, don't be cheap. Use a Nitto 555 or a BFG TA-KD, Kumho MX, etc.

If you want to handle well, spend the money. If you don't spend the money, you'll never handle well. FACT. I've dumped like 14K on my suspension, trust the money I already spent to keep you from having to spend it.

 

the only advice i gave was to stop taking turns so fast.

 

who gives a ****....it's not a BMW...it's a Ford Mustang....we go fast in strait lines, not curvey roads

 

exactly.. what good is that. he clearly wants to turn fast. So why not tell him how to fix his car so he can like he asked.

BTW, I can go into a 90deg right hand corner (ie, intersection) doing 50 and not even squeal the tires on my setup. Wait till I have more grip in the rear, then I'll be able to do it at 70. So yeah, 30mph turns at 70 are quite possible and reasonable if you have the right suspension.

and badfish... Ummm I can outhandle any BMW currently produced in my stang... can't you? Even the M3 is a goner upside my stang. So what were you saying? Oh yes the mustangs racing heritage was built on carol shelby modded stangs turning sharp corners fast. Drag racing super stardom came later with the big block powered stangs.

 

...is hard to come by.

Ignore anyone who starts out insulting the planet and next says:

"Tires mean jack."

Sadly, I agree that maximum motorsports has good stuff (particularly since I listed them as a good location to do research). Coil overs are fine, and have many advantages - but low cost and longevity on daily drivers are not among them.

Decide first what you want the car to do.

Do your research - discussing (even arguing) on these boards is not bad research, though you'll have to learn to find what you need.

Check out the market and the prices.

Go for it.

tripleblack

 

I insulted noone yet but I'll take the time to insult you.
I've decided to pick you apart piece by piece just for being a jerk to another senior member so here you go:

tires don't mean jack for his purposes and that's the fact of the matter. some tires are better than others but if your suspension isn't tuned properly you might as well drive on the stock goodyears or daytons or any hunk of crap.

MM parts are infinitely streetable and more durable than stock when installed properly, YOU ARE WRONG and I can prove it. Griggs are a little more race oriented and lightly built and don't last as long on the street but they handle better on a race track. As for cost, CO might be a modicum more expensive but the performance is more than just some ghey spring rate change that's not fixing the problems there smart guy. The problem is that the stock type of suspension sucks donkey *****. No amount of fixing it will fix it. You have to make it a good system. As for cost, under 1500 bucks installed for a front end CO kit is totally doable with room for a rear spring upgrade and if you do the install yourself (easy) then you can afford the 400 bones for a set of cobra brakes.

You advise picking a tire by its UTQ wear rating. Those are government standards that don't really affect performance on a daily basis in any real way. I've had 340 treadwear tires burn out before 200 treadwear tires on the same car. There are only a few Z rated tires with more than a 300 treadwear, most suck as bad as the goodyears. Smooth one dude. Use a useless basis of comparison to sound smart. I at least gave specific brand models that are PROVEN to work in TRACK and STREET. Neener. Besides.. jeredan seems to understand that Nitto and similar tires are good,.. he just cheaped out for the winter with them douglas things. His call. Probably a good one for him at the time.

You clearly dont' understand that rear brakes on a mustang are not one of the things you should spend money upgrading until it'll help (like increasing rear traction and fixing the nose-dive issue with say a torque arm and PHB). Front kits cost 399 tops, all in and if you can't install them yourself, wow... I do agree with you that this is the #1 priority for a sports car but, why you tell people to waste money improving the rear which doesn't add any stopping force to a stock suspension car is beyond me. Maybe you have stock in brembo.

Weld on Subframes are mandatory on any 79-04 mustang if you want to beat on it. They're just too helpful. A strut tower brace is USELESS unless you weld it on. Bolt ons do not stop chassis flex and that's a fact and you know it.

Adjustable dampners for a newb... yeah that's a crappy idea. NOn-adjustable until you know what you're doing. MM doesn't make springs smart guy. Hypercoil makes their CO springs and they also like H&R and Eibach for the traditional kind. Which one do they MAKE. None. I'll keep going.

Recommending steeda is like asking for something to suck and expecting it not to. Be real. Steeda is crap and most people can recognize that. They poorly engineer their own designs, really poorly reverse engineer others work, and sell cheap low market crap to n3wbs that would buy it or recommend it. All their good stuff is made and branded by other companies and Stupida is just a reseller. And don't even start on that abomination they call a 5 link. That's a joke of a suspension system if I've ever seen one. It's just a repackaged stock type with a PHB.

So you want to be a ***** and find any fault you can with statements made by someone you don't even know. So can I.

Don't bother talking back. I've already unsubscribed.

 

****in ricers...arguing about what a car can do in corners

 

...to have intruded. This is obviously one of those times when you want to be alone.

Polite conversation requires little more than cooperation between enemies.

"Not a damn one of you knows anthing about setting up a suspension..."
constitutes a rather generic slam at some folks just trying to help out a fellow human being who asked a rather mild question. It also assumes a great deal about everyone who is involved in the conversation, and arrogates an astounding amount of authority without basis.

"Tires mean jack" is a put down when that is one of the topics on the table and of critical importance in any automotive endeavor in any event - not because I say so, but because its the truth, demonstrated by the tremendous effort put into tire technology by the whole history of automotive industry since before Michelin stood for anything other than a funny bicycle shop in France. People die every day from bad tires, and if that doesn't "mean jack" I fear we have little to agree upon on that subject.

You obviously want someone to argue with - who knows why - but I just don't have time for that - particularly over coil-overs, which I actually like, and have installed on several cars (kit cars just wouldn't exist without them, and they are fantastic for things like turbo installs, up-motor swaps where space is at a premium, and to trim weight while adding ride height adjustability) but wouldn't run on a daily driver (just like I said, and just like any number of knowledgeable folks will tell you if you look up their words in print, on line, or in person). I gathered from the fact that the original questioner was running literally the cheapest tires available that cost would be a large consideration in any decision tree. I mentioned he should consult maximum motorsports site to do some research, which I'm sure would have included the full slate of options, ie, coil overs, tubular k members, adjustable control arms, etc, on his car.

I can see that you have something to contribute as regards the topic of coil overs - hopefully the thread author can extract something useable from the mass.

Have a nice day.


[QUOTE=r3dn3ck]I insulted noone yet but I'll take the time to insult you.
I've decided to pick you apart piece by piece just for being a jerk to another senior member so here you go:}

 

Hey I give those Douglas tires SOME Props. They allowed me to save money when I needed it for other things. They have a 300 treadwear and they last long. I just bought the cheap ones so I could do burnouts whenever I wanted and do donuts in the snow and rain. They do good in the snow (for a mustang) and thats all I wanted out of them. However the do suck on the dry street though. I have managed to beat several fast cars on the street, but It will get sideways from a 40 roll punch.

I dont just want a car thats just good for drag racing. I like to have fun in the corners too. I would like to still be able to get some nice 60ft. times out of it at the strip. I want to buy the right parts first. Just like on my engine I spent all this money on bolt on parts when I could have just bought a blower. I dont want to get in that same trap with the suspension. I will probably just build the suspension a little at a time but I figured I will have a solid $1500 to drop on some stuff this summer.

I am able to install coilovers so I think I can get some brakes too. I really do need brakes on it. I have Carbon Mettalic Pads on the Front and back. They stop much better than the stock pads but my car gets pretty fast and its hard to slow down sometimes. The momentum of my car is too much sometimes for the stock brakes.

Thanks for all this input im getting from you guys. Im starting to lean towards a coiloversetup since I would like to lose some weight and I may go turbo when I get out of college.

 

LMAO no im a skinny guy I think that it helps me win races......

 

Actually, I saw a stang one time that needed a ford lift to make it around a corner - clipped a wall and couldn't turn in anything less than a football field. Guy kept trying to drive the unsafe thing anyway.

 

Weight matters. I know a fellow who drives a 99 GT who gets lots of action from the Camaro crowd. They haven't figured out the fact that his car weighs next to nothing. Talk about a stripped down street machine....

The doors are gutted out, including no side impact braces; no window mechanisms (he has the windows glued permanently in place, and I suspect they're lexan also); I KNOW the side quarter glass is lexan; no speakers (has the original grills on, nothing underneath); no stereo (has one of those fake stereo fronts glued in there); rear seat delete; no spare, jack or anything else in trunk except the lightweight battery thats boxed in on the passenger side; no floor mats; no console; lightweight racing seats for the driver and passenger; no heater, heater core, fan motor, etc.; no air conditioning; no power steering (manual conversion); cross-drilled & slotted brake discs; aluminum drive shaft; aluminum flywheel; aluminum rear control arms upper and lower (did I mention he likes aluminum?); tubular k member with coil overs all around (nothing wrong with coil overs from what I hear); stock exhaust except for off-road xpipe (for reasons of stealth, he says); motor is a stroker 4.6 (about 300 cubic inches) with a stout pair of VT cams, ported and polished heads (Fox Lake did that work, I believe); Accufab tb and Dragon intake combo. No nitrous, no supercharger, no problem. Gears are 4.30's and the shifter is a Pro 5.0 model.

When he's on the prowl he runs stock goodyears on the front and Mickey Thompsons on 10 1/2" rims out back.

And he's a skinny guy too.

Like I said, weight matters.

I've lost 30 pounds here lately, but I'm still overweight even for my height at 230 pounds. Hey, if I lost 100 pounds I could probably shave a tenth off of my times!

tripleblack

 

giggle, giggle I like the "No floor mats"

 

Next time I see the car I'm looking inside - wouldn't be surprised if the carpets are gone by then.

Last time I talked to him he was enthusiastic about an article in MMFF about lightening the rear differential (write up about a guy up around Charlotte who really knows his stuff with differential setups for less weight and better handling). I think he has little time for small jobs, though - I heard he's pretty much full time with the NASCAR guys now.

But yeah, I didn't mention it, but he's got a really light weight hood on the car (uses pins, of course); fiberglass front fenders; no rear spoiler; and probably the smallest mufflers he could find. He's serious though about keeping the paint shiney and the glass (what there is of it) clean.

If he thought he'd go faster, I bet he'd road race in the buff.