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  #31  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by r3dn3ck View Post
I think I have it figured out. 14.5:1 AF and all that timing, no wonder it reads high tq, he was pinging the **** out of it, the tq numbers are totally bogus. It was like a grenade going off in each cylinder every time, very high impulse but no carry. That's the kind of **** that blows motors. Man, get that tune off your car or find some way of proving to at least yourself that the AF isn't that lean and that I'm reading the graph wrong. You should be running 12.5-13:1 at WOT NA and not a penny more.

I don't want to **** on your parade but you ignore that warning at your own expense.
I didn't even catch the AF. Yea that's a pretty big problem. I would go back and ask him to check that. Or find somewhere else that won't have you running a 14+:1 AF.
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by r3dn3ck View Post
I think I have it figured out. 14.5:1 AF and all that timing, no wonder it reads high tq, he was pinging the **** out of it, the tq numbers are totally bogus. It was like a grenade going off in each cylinder every time, very high impulse but no carry. That's the kind of **** that blows motors. Man, get that tune off your car or find some way of proving to at least yourself that the AF isn't that lean and that I'm reading the graph wrong. You should be running 12.5-13:1 at WOT NA and not a penny more.

I don't want to **** on your parade but you ignore that warning at your own expense.
Man, I'm betting that the A/F reading is off. The first one reads 8.0 and the next two read 14.5/14.6?? This is the same tune that was done by Tim @ M-P-H, nothing changed other than the headers/exhaust. No CEL, no detonation, and the car runs just as smooth as ever.

Again, the car WAS NOT tuned Saturday, only put on the dyno to see what it put down. The tune is the same one that has been in the car for 2+ years...

Last edited by WNRacing; 03-22-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:29 AM
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The max AFR from when I had the car dynoed at Modular Powerhouse was 12.82.

Either the dyno that was used is wrong, or the car is ******* up. I'd bet the dyno was wrong being that you havent changed the tune and the car is sunning well still.

I'd go back to where you had it dyno'd and get a re-do...something isnt right, and the dyno guy didnt catch it... That would bother the **** out of me. And would make me feel entitled to a free re-dyno.
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2010, 09:35 AM
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wow...didnt see that till r3d pointed it out...i was wondering how you was getting the gains of a stroker motor in torque. First pull on mine with the stroker, it went lean and was reading 380tq. He fixed it and corrected it and i lost 40tq to 340 so i know that it can make a huge difference between readouts, by getting the right mixture.
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2010, 10:11 AM
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the 8:1 reading is also false. Notice it's perfectly flat while the other 2 runs are a little wavy like AF tends to be

I'm still betting on the extremely lean situation. I will however make an allowance for it being potentially a load cell type dyno with a complete asstard at the console and the numbers are still in that case, wrong. AND if you'll notice your HP and TQ curves cross at 4500 rpm, that's a HUGE problem since they MUST mathematically cross at 5250 rpm.

Your dyno operator is a motard.

Last edited by r3dn3ck; 03-22-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2010, 11:43 AM
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bunch of haters here drinking their haterade.

I seen that A/F but didnt log in on my phone to post anything about it over the weekend. Buy yourself a Innovate wideband and check your A/F yourself. All of the cars I seen with full bolt-ons to include stage 1 and 2 cams barely clear 310-315 torque at the wheels. I would check the 300-399 hp section of M.P.H tuned cars and those were the norms for 2 valve cars.
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2010, 12:37 PM
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Brent sent me this graph today, I'm not terribly sure how to read all of this stuff to be honest... Anyone care to give it a try?

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He had this to say in response as well..

Quote:
This is a wideband (NOT a sniffer, a real wideband) in the tailpipe. It is up for debate how accurate something is in the tailpipe, but I would say you are lean. Most n/a cars like high 12s low 13s, so not too bad, but probably a few hp to be gained. Is your tuner unlocked to where you can add fuel? If so, come back and you'll probably get your 270
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2010, 12:44 PM
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That AF graph frightens me. You're a full point and a half lean through most of it. 2 points lean in places. Don't got WOT till that's fixed. EGT's are probably in space, you're gunna burn a valve or a crack a piston like that.

I have a wideband installed in my car permanently. I know what they are. Tailpipe probes are not as accurate. Tuners I go to use a sensor screwed into a bung welded into the mid-pipe before the cats, just like you're supposed to.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2010, 01:12 PM
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How the hell would that happen? Is there some possible way that the tune got focked? Or is it more likely that the A/F isn't being read correctly? I mean this same tune has been in the car since before I bought it from Dave and it was done by Tim @ M-P-H.

I guess I should re-load the stock tune?
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2010, 01:12 PM
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So WNRacing when are you going to realize you're cooler than me. so when your ready to slum it WNR and talk about cars with a total dumbass let me know, www.vmptuning.com he actually knows how to tune cars...

Last edited by r3dn3ck; 03-22-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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  #41  
Old 03-22-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCobraParts View Post
So WNRacing when are you going to realize you're cooler than me. so when your ready to slum it WNR and talk about cars with a total dumbass let me know, www.vmptuning.com he actually knows how to tune cars...
You have got to be kidding me... Imagine that, Stephen is still posting! I like the fact that you're acting like you knew all along that the A/F was off.. That's cute. R3d, seriously.. Please Ban Stephen (AllCobraParts) and Ryan (switch), Stephen for obvious reasons of being an internet e-thug and Ryan for allowing him to stay on the forum instead of banning him like he is supposed to. At the very least, Ryan needs to be de-modded for not doing his job.

And yet again, the car wasn't tuned with these guys, it was tuned by Tim Barth at M.P.H

Last edited by r3dn3ck; 03-22-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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i been on m.p.h. dyno and he put the wideband in my tail pipe because he couldnt break loose the o2 sensor. my a/f read 11.5 with stock h-hpipe still installed. tim usually left the tuner unlocked with 20% fuel adjustment. when i added the o/r x pipe my a/f went to 11.8-12.0.
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:46 PM
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I dont remember what Tim used for AFR reading when he dyno tuned the car... I do remember there was a wire coming out from underneath the car that was connected to his laptop...I think. that was a long time ago, so the memory is fuzzy at best.
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  #44  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WNRacing View Post
You have got to be kidding me... Imagine that, Stephen is still posting! I like the fact that you're acting like you knew all along that the A/F was off.. That's cute. R3d, seriously.. Please Ban Stephen (AllCobraParts) and Ryan (switch), Stephen for obvious reasons of being an internet e-thug and Ryan for allowing him to stay on the forum instead of banning him like he is supposed to. At the very least, Ryan needs to be de-modded for not doing his job.

Switch told me he banned Stephen, so either he lied to me or another mod let stephen back in. Dustin?
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  #45  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:53 PM
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I just Messaged Tim on the M.P.H forum, hopefully he can help me figure out WTF to do.. Now I'm ******* scared to drive the car, the last thing I need is to grenade the top end.
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:54 PM
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this post is funny...pple just going back and forth. Wn i think you should just get a repull with some tuning and then the numbers will be right. Otherwise ppl need to allow for time to get the numbers and the dyno right. The fun of owning a mustang is working on the hp bit by bit and having some fun along the way
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WNRacing View Post
I just Messaged Tim on the M.P.H forum, hopefully he can help me figure out WTF to do.. Now I'm ******* scared to drive the car, the last thing I need is to grenade the top end.
I like M.P.H and the whole crew there but I couldnt stand by for weeks on end to get an answer. Things also didnt get better when they were moving and I really needed their assistance with my AODE tuning. I went with a local reputable tuner, but with all tuners some people praise while most flame. I checked 3 different places one guy was street tuning, one didnt use a wideband but a sniffer wideband and the last one actually tuned my car. I have had an excellent experience with all who done work on my vehicle. Sure, I paid a lot of money but I know my tuner will be here and I can schedule a personal appointment to have my issues fixed. No waiting for email traffic or mailing my x-cal or chip off to have adjustments made.


If your x-cal allows you to adjust fuel trims you should be able to add a percentage for the WOT table. If you havent looked into this just toy with it for a bit and see if the x-cal allows this.


What was your idle A/F at? should of been 14.7. The way I see that last graph shows your idle at 16. If your car is showing 14.6 at WOT and is 1.3 higher while in idle than in theory your WOT A/F should be 13.3.
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:21 PM
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Reply from Tim.

Quote:
Hey,
You don't have a big problem so don't worry yourself to death over it.

You just need a tune adjustment. I'm flying to Arizona in the morning so I'm out of the office.
Email all the info I need, ie:

X-cal serial#
All your mods
Computer code
The name of the original owner

I can adjust the file and send it to you.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNRacing View Post
Reply from Tim.
Good, your just a email away from having a worry free ride. For some reason my car is finicky and needed a personal touch.
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger00 View Post
Good, your just a email away from having a worry free ride. For some reason my car is finicky and needed a personal touch.
Some cars need little tweaks. It's no big deal.
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  #51  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch View Post
Some cars need little tweaks. It's no big deal.
Wishes mine was one of them. Stupid auto mustangs. Take heed people if your auto dies or blows up swap a manual in that ****.
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  #52  
Old 03-22-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger00 View Post
Wishes mine was one of them. Stupid auto mustangs. Take heed people if your auto dies or blows up swap a manual in that ****.
My first stang was a manual and second was an automatic. I'd have to agree with you lol
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  #53  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:06 PM
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Glad Tim is helping you..He's a stand up guy.
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  #54  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger00 View Post
Good, your just a email away from having a worry free ride. For some reason my car is finicky and needed a personal touch.
No ****.. r3d was freaking me the fock out, I'm sitting there like holy **** I almost killed my car..

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Originally Posted by zigzagg321 View Post
Glad Tim is helping you..He's a stand up guy.
Thank god he responded so quickly this time, I was getting ready to have a stroke I think.
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  #55  
Old 03-22-2010, 05:38 PM
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deep breath, its not 2012 just yet. haha.
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  #56  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:14 PM
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I was going to ask you if you got it re tuned after the longtubes. Longtubes will lean you out a bit but I don't think it would have went from mid 12's to high 14's. I had very similar mods to you and made 248/284 un-tuned with a mid 13 a/f ratio. Good luck, hope everything gets straightened out.
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  #57  
Old 03-22-2010, 06:40 PM
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I think the dyno is goofed....and I think you might have an exhaust leak. Not uncomon after adding headers and it would explain a lean dyno. That thing is way too lean, but i think it is because of the way the sensor was seeing the leak. The T numbers defy explanation.....even that lean, it just does not seem possible.

My car makes about 290/305 with about the same setup AND cams.
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  #58  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:32 PM
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You guys recommend any particular Wideband gauge? Preferrably one that doesn't cost all of my leg and most of my arm... And I guess I should look at getting another gauge at the same time since the smallest pod I've seen is for 2 gauges...
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  #59  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:41 PM
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I use a Innovate LC-1 Wideband thats hooked up to a Auto meter narrow band A/F gauge. I probably have 230-240 invested. I'm sure someone still sells steering column pods that hold one gauge. You could also get the LC-1 with a LED digi gauge thats square and still cheap. The best part is that reads in 3 digits I.E. 14.6, 14.7 etc etc
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  #60  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:44 PM
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So something like this wouldn't do the job?

http://www.americanmuscle.com/autometer-airfuel.html
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