Procharger question

BrentK · 05-19-2005, 07:02 PM

hi, i think i am going to go with a procharger and have heard of mustangs with just exhaust 410's and a procharger with a 3 core intercooler running low 11's Just want to know if anyone has heard of any. Is procharger more powerful than vortech/ paxton???

Stevoneo · 05-19-2005, 08:50 PM

Ok, here it goes.

Wait let me take a breath of air in *Warning, long but intelligent post*

Procharger is a very good supercharger and being that I now have my distributor license for Procharger, (vortech/paxton)-Same company, and in the process of whipple, It is good on the price tag.

Procharger is able to get you the High Horsepower numbers that most blown Mustang guys are looking for by using the air to air intercooler. they have 3 core and 2 core. 3 core is the better one to go with because the air is able to cool off more.

Vortech has the water to air cooler that uses a compressor pump to send water to after coolant area to cool the air. (This form is not a sufficient and most guys will put ice in the resevoir when they go to the track, because water doesn't cut it.)

Vortech is not able to match procharger HP gains due to the fact that the air to water, is less effeciant as the air to air. Vortech has one set-up for another vehicle other than ford where you are able to get an air to air cooler from them. Guess what, with dynos with this one car vortech uses their only air to air matched against procharger air to air cooler on this one car, i will have to find which one it is and come back and edit so all can search for results.

If you get vortech be sure to get an air to air cooler from procharger, air to water sucks.

Vortech also has a smaller CFM than procharger. Procharger is able to get more air through than the rest of the competitors, except for PAXTON.

I would recommend PAXTON for a few reasons.

Paxton also uses air to air cooler
Paxton can grow a long time with your car and is very reliable.
Paxton has the largest CFM ratio out of all
Paxton can be used for bone stock application (ex. novi200) all the way to 800+ horsepower.

Procharger is good as well for a few reasons

procharger gets you the power you want
you do have to change head units when you want to grow with horsepower
procharger has self contained oil area, no more making a hole in the oil pan
However procharger has been known for breaking seals. They are a 10.00 part to fix though.

Overall, I would recommend Novi from paxton. Your better off, better reliability, and the gains can be better.

Just be sure to change out pistons, rods, and crank. Getting forge guts in your engine is always good, and if you get a cobra block, your $h!t will last. Then you can crank up the boost.

Talk with Steen Racing and they can tell you exactly how to make your engine with a blower almost invincible.

P.S. Get a safe tune, that is the best way to keep your car still moving.

quik94gt · 05-24-2005, 08:41 AM

ok i have a 94 gt with a procharger D1-R with three core intercooler but it is brand new and has not ever been put on anything its on ebay right now and i have both seen and heard that with tires and a gear you can run mid 11's those chargers are awesome i personally would not buy anything else but there are a lot of guys running vortec/paxton and are pumping some high horse but i would go with the procharger

dom · 05-25-2005, 01:31 PM

prochargers are fine i run one

white99gt · 05-25-2005, 08:06 PM

Well.To add water to air DOESNT suck.If so why do all the OEms use it on their blower cars?

Blower to blower a vortech makes MORE power with less cfm.because the vortech is a better setup.
example procharger rates their p1sc at 1200 cfm .A s trim vortech is rated at 1000cfm..Show me ONE procharger p1sc that has made over 550rwhp (2v) .I know the s can do it because ive made 555rwhp on a "s" trim..

Secondly guys that use water to air use ice to get a rapid drop in temp.Most blown 03.04 cobras and vortech aftercoolers stablize after a few runs.But if running a lot of boost water can only soak up so much heat.

But in traffic a air to air heat soaks faster than a water to air setup.For the track only i say air to air on a street car with some track time i say water to air.

In all those blowers you also didnt mention KB.Which makes a LOT of power and is supplied with a water to air setup.Makes the car feel like a big block basicly.

Stevoneo · 05-26-2005, 01:59 AM

Not trying to start smack talk with you here but read as follows.

First off, Im not even getting into roots style.

Show me one Vortech Kit that uses the water to air, and has the gains of using that system as a procharger. Throw a air to air on vortech, and watch the gains increase. Water to air compared to a 3 core air to air intercooler is better. Find a system that is going to overpower an air to air. You cant.
Procharger does become inhibited by power with the p1sc however you can make over 550hp with it. Call steen racing in norfolk virginia. They have built one. They now recommend Paxton, because look at what a paxton 2000 can do. And you dont need to do this upgrade my head unit from s to t trim or p1sc to d1sc to f1sc stuff.

Air to air is going to be better than water to air. And look at the leg work you got to do to fit the water compressor and module in. Relocate battery guide this line over and there you go.

I like procharger but am set on paxton for now. Procharger is cheaper, runs good levels, and I do recommend to everyone, pay the extra 2hundred to get the upgrade to d1 class.

04DarkShadowGT · 05-26-2005, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevoneo

However procharger has been known for breaking seals. They are a 10.00 part to fix though.

Its not always the cost of the parts. If you cant do it yourself you have to send it back to procharger and your car will be out of commission for a while.

Imo the Procharger is not worth it get the Novi 2000 mongoose kit from www.modularpowerhouse.com and be making 380whp with no intercooler. I know I will be in the near future.

Also the procharger intercooler even 3 core sucks for high hp applications, the paxton version although expensive is MUCH better when you are making big power.

For all things blower visit www.modularpowerhouse.com

Stevoneo · 05-26-2005, 06:30 AM

or go through me for the novi2000 and get all you need cheaper. And get the intercooler

04DarkShadowGT · 05-26-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevoneo

or go through me for the novi2000 and get all you need cheaper. And get the intercooler

How many cars has your company built or tuned? I am interested depending on your track record? Do you have a dyno and tune the cars yourself or do you send the chip out to be tuned.

Your website doesnt have much on it so I am assuming you are fairly new.

What is your price for a complete novi2000 kit? Also what comes with your kit?

white99gt · 05-26-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevoneo

Not trying to start smack talk with you here but read as follows.

First off, Im not even getting into roots style.

Oh il show you examples when i get home of the vortech stuff.

Just a little FYI-the kenne bell is NOT a roots blower.

white99gt · 05-26-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevoneo

Not trying to start smack talk with you here but read as follows.

No smack here just stating the facts.You have built and owned how many blower cars.I built mine myself so i know a few things about blowers.Not a lot of 600+ 2v 's running around out there.Most of them built by shops.

Quote:

First off, Im not even getting into roots style.

Again FYI KB's are NOT roots blowers info so you can read up on that:HERE

Quote:

Show me one Vortech Kit that uses the water to air, and has the gains of using that system as a procharger. Throw a air to air on vortech, and watch the gains increase. Water to air compared to a 3 core air to air intercooler is better. Find a system that is going to overpower an air to air. You cant.
Procharger does become inhibited by power with the p1sc however you can make over 550hp with it. Call steen racing in norfolk virginia. They have built one. They now recommend Paxton, because look at what a paxton 2000 can do. And you dont need to do this upgrade my head unit from s to t trim or p1sc to d1sc to f1sc stuff.

ONE p1sc making 550+rwhp probally a 4v with a 2v it will NEVER happen..
A friends bullitt with a s trim 3.1 pulley,(forged internals) aftercooler ,13 psi making 550rwhp.The aftercooler loses LESS boost than the paxton setup(he is making 1psi less than mine was with out a cooler and mine made 555rwhp).Anyone with a paxton will tell you ,that you lose at LEAST 2~3 psi in the cooler.So which one is better?

Quote:

Air to air is going to be better than water to air. And look at the leg work you got to do to fit the water compressor and module in. Relocate battery guide this line over and there you go.

I like procharger but am set on paxton for now. Procharger is cheaper, runs good levels, and I do recommend to everyone, pay the extra 2hundred to get the upgrade to d1 class.

Humm air to air is better.Ever try cooling your hand off after burning it with something by just waving it around in the air?It cools off better when you stick in it water.Same theory applies here.Esp since water is 23 times more conductive than air.

No flaming .no smack talk.Just stating facts.

dom · 05-27-2005, 12:53 PM

what white99gt says is true, however when it comes to intercooling, i still like to use air to air on a street driven car. water is more conductive, meaning it will get hotter from ambient temperatures. air to air coolers are getting fresh cold air from the front of the car. now, in cases where one can add ice or some extremely cold substance to their air to water, this becomes completely different story. use his example, burn your hand. would u wave it in the air or dump it into steaming hot water?

white99gt · 05-27-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dom

what white99gt says is true, however when it comes to intercooling, i still like to use air to air on a street driven car. water is more conductive, meaning it will get hotter from ambient temperatures. air to air coolers are getting fresh cold air from the front of the car. now, in cases where one can add ice or some extremely cold substance to their air to water, this becomes completely different story. use his example, burn your hand. would u wave it in the air or dump it into steaming hot water?

You are correct except in most cases water to air system reach a certain temp and stay there.This has been shown in a lot of tests.But it really depends on the amount of power you are putting out.As to which setup you should get.

Btw- most of the big dogs in the NMRA run water to air setups :laughing7

dom · 05-27-2005, 01:16 PM

yes they do

and i did not know that air to water kits limit temps to a certain temperature. its a great idea to do that, but i didnt know it was possible. maybe with some pump and thermostat setup. ? shows how much i know about air to water systems

Stevoneo · 05-27-2005, 02:32 PM

also the big dogs have a water combo of like water and methonal and ICE. And every run has more ice added to cool the temps. Good for run once or twice. Street cars, the water is only so cold and thats it.

white99gt · 05-27-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevoneo

also the big dogs have a water combo of like water and methonal and ICE. And every run has more ice added to cool the temps. Good for run once or twice. Street cars, the water is only so cold and thats it.

True .But just like cars most water to air setups are controlled.The oems have sensors that cut the water flow on and off based on temps.

Remember water in a water to air setup is like your radiator.Once it hits a certain temp it stays there.

Both have their pros and cons.
Reguardless which ever setup you get it will work pretty good.

I say go anything but procharger because blow thru apps are a PITA to tune..Its even worse now that no one makes a blow thru maf anymore.

foncarelli · 06-02-2005, 07:21 PM

Thats why i joined. I knew there were some blower guys in here. I just sit back and listen.

:homework:

Teal_Beast · 06-17-2005, 03:45 PM

I might not get a lot of respect because im a 6 but putting full exhaust and an 11psi procharger kit brought my 190crank hp 3.8l v6 to 309whp.

i think that is a consiterable diffrence. i have run both vortech and procharger on my 6 but in very diffrent setups i liked the vortech although they didnt make an aftercooler setup for it.

i think they are both very good and you should just go with what you can find. I got good deals on both of my kits.

Stangdude27 · 06-24-2005, 09:54 PM

I'm just jumping into the middle here on the whole supercharger set up. So running a procharger p-1sc stage 2 with the 3-core standard air to air intercooler at 12 psi on a completly stock gt motor is bad or good.

dom · 06-25-2005, 05:51 AM

what size pulley? the level of restriction is very different between the 3core and 2core. also, what is your A:F and what is your rwhp? i ran a 2core with a 3.3 inch pulley and it spun a bearing. on the new motor im using that same size pulley with a d1

Teal_Beast · 06-25-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stangdude27

I'm just jumping into the middle here on the whole supercharger set up. So running a procharger p-1sc stage 2 with the 3-core standard air to air intercooler at 12 psi on a completly stock gt motor is bad or good.

with a good tune i dont think it should be a problem, but watch out for the 400whp limit on your stock internals.

foncarelli · 06-25-2005, 02:28 PM

I am running at about 9lbs with no problems but i like my rwhp where it is right now until i get my internals forged.

Stangdude27 · 06-25-2005, 04:54 PM

I just ordered the kit and will be installing in less than two weeks. Just wondering what the word is on the procharger system. I'm sure I'll have to take it easy until I get the internals upgraded. Once I get it all installed I'll get the dyno sheet on here with pics.

05-19-2005, 07:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
BrentK Win it or wreck it Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: My Heart is in Ohio Posts: 1,282	Procharger question hi, i think i am going to go with a procharger and have heard of mustangs with just exhaust 410's and a procharger with a 3 core intercooler running low 11's Just want to know if anyone has heard of any. Is procharger more powerful than vortech/ paxton???

05-19-2005, 08:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stevoneo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 598	Ok, here it goes. Wait let me take a breath of air in Warning, long but intelligent post Procharger is a very good supercharger and being that I now have my distributor license for Procharger, (vortech/paxton)-Same company, and in the process of whipple, It is good on the price tag. Procharger is able to get you the High Horsepower numbers that most blown Mustang guys are looking for by using the air to air intercooler. they have 3 core and 2 core. 3 core is the better one to go with because the air is able to cool off more. Vortech has the water to air cooler that uses a compressor pump to send water to after coolant area to cool the air. (This form is not a sufficient and most guys will put ice in the resevoir when they go to the track, because water doesn't cut it.) Vortech is not able to match procharger HP gains due to the fact that the air to water, is less effeciant as the air to air. Vortech has one set-up for another vehicle other than ford where you are able to get an air to air cooler from them. Guess what, with dynos with this one car vortech uses their only air to air matched against procharger air to air cooler on this one car, i will have to find which one it is and come back and edit so all can search for results. If you get vortech be sure to get an air to air cooler from procharger, air to water sucks. Vortech also has a smaller CFM than procharger. Procharger is able to get more air through than the rest of the competitors, except for PAXTON. I would recommend PAXTON for a few reasons. Paxton also uses air to air cooler Paxton can grow a long time with your car and is very reliable. Paxton has the largest CFM ratio out of all Paxton can be used for bone stock application (ex. novi200) all the way to 800+ horsepower. Procharger is good as well for a few reasons procharger gets you the power you want you do have to change head units when you want to grow with horsepower procharger has self contained oil area, no more making a hole in the oil pan However procharger has been known for breaking seals. They are a 10.00 part to fix though. Overall, I would recommend Novi from paxton. Your better off, better reliability, and the gains can be better. Just be sure to change out pistons, rods, and crank. Getting forge guts in your engine is always good, and if you get a cobra block, your $h!t will last. Then you can crank up the boost. Talk with Steen Racing and they can tell you exactly how to make your engine with a blower almost invincible. P.S. Get a safe tune, that is the best way to keep your car still moving. __________________ 2004 Mach 1 - New Baby Numbers Coming Soon 2001 Mustang GT - In Mustang Heaven 399.65 RWHP 384 Torque

05-24-2005, 08:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
quik94gt Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 31	procharger ok i have a 94 gt with a procharger D1-R with three core intercooler but it is brand new and has not ever been put on anything its on ebay right now and i have both seen and heard that with tires and a gear you can run mid 11's those chargers are awesome i personally would not buy anything else but there are a lot of guys running vortec/paxton and are pumping some high horse but i would go with the procharger

05-25-2005, 01:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
dom whos gonna ban me next? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: baltimore, MD Posts: 1,268	prochargers are fine i run one __________________ 2007 explorer limited procharged 2002gt sold new project: 427w c4 9" fox

05-25-2005, 08:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
white99gt 600+rwhp club Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta,ga Posts: 60	Well.To add water to air DOESNT suck.If so why do all the OEms use it on their blower cars? Blower to blower a vortech makes MORE power with less cfm.because the vortech is a better setup. example procharger rates their p1sc at 1200 cfm .A s trim vortech is rated at 1000cfm..Show me ONE procharger p1sc that has made over 550rwhp (2v) .I know the s can do it because ive made 555rwhp on a "s" trim.. Secondly guys that use water to air use ice to get a rapid drop in temp.Most blown 03.04 cobras and vortech aftercoolers stablize after a few runs.But if running a lot of boost water can only soak up so much heat. But in traffic a air to air heat soaks faster than a water to air setup.For the track only i say air to air on a street car with some track time i say water to air. In all those blowers you also didnt mention KB.Which makes a LOT of power and is supplied with a water to air setup.Makes the car feel like a big block basicly. __________________ 621rwhp~504rwtq <----Old vortech T trim combo 2V 2.2 Kenne bell <---present combo 549rwhp~491rwtq SAE @15psi 560rwhp~490rwtq STD @15psi My mods

05-26-2005, 01:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stevoneo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 598	Not trying to start smack talk with you here but read as follows. First off, Im not even getting into roots style. Show me one Vortech Kit that uses the water to air, and has the gains of using that system as a procharger. Throw a air to air on vortech, and watch the gains increase. Water to air compared to a 3 core air to air intercooler is better. Find a system that is going to overpower an air to air. You cant. Procharger does become inhibited by power with the p1sc however you can make over 550hp with it. Call steen racing in norfolk virginia. They have built one. They now recommend Paxton, because look at what a paxton 2000 can do. And you dont need to do this upgrade my head unit from s to t trim or p1sc to d1sc to f1sc stuff. Air to air is going to be better than water to air. And look at the leg work you got to do to fit the water compressor and module in. Relocate battery guide this line over and there you go. I like procharger but am set on paxton for now. Procharger is cheaper, runs good levels, and I do recommend to everyone, pay the extra 2hundred to get the upgrade to d1 class. __________________ 2004 Mach 1 - New Baby Numbers Coming Soon 2001 Mustang GT - In Mustang Heaven 399.65 RWHP 384 Torque

05-26-2005, 06:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stevoneo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 598	or go through me for the novi2000 and get all you need cheaper. And get the intercooler __________________ 2004 Mach 1 - New Baby Numbers Coming Soon 2001 Mustang GT - In Mustang Heaven 399.65 RWHP 384 Torque

05-27-2005, 12:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
dom whos gonna ban me next? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: baltimore, MD Posts: 1,268	what white99gt says is true, however when it comes to intercooling, i still like to use air to air on a street driven car. water is more conductive, meaning it will get hotter from ambient temperatures. air to air coolers are getting fresh cold air from the front of the car. now, in cases where one can add ice or some extremely cold substance to their air to water, this becomes completely different story. use his example, burn your hand. would u wave it in the air or dump it into steaming hot water? __________________ 2007 explorer limited procharged 2002gt sold new project: 427w c4 9" fox

05-27-2005, 01:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
dom whos gonna ban me next? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: baltimore, MD Posts: 1,268	yes they do and i did not know that air to water kits limit temps to a certain temperature. its a great idea to do that, but i didnt know it was possible. maybe with some pump and thermostat setup. ? shows how much i know about air to water systems __________________ 2007 explorer limited procharged 2002gt sold new project: 427w c4 9" fox

05-27-2005, 02:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
Stevoneo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 598	also the big dogs have a water combo of like water and methonal and ICE. And every run has more ice added to cool the temps. Good for run once or twice. Street cars, the water is only so cold and thats it. __________________ 2004 Mach 1 - New Baby Numbers Coming Soon 2001 Mustang GT - In Mustang Heaven 399.65 RWHP 384 Torque

06-02-2005, 07:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
foncarelli Everyday Im Hustlin Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ecorse, Michigan Posts: 3,647	Thats why i joined. I knew there were some blower guys in here. I just sit back and listen. :homework: __________________

06-17-2005, 03:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Teal_Beast V6 Power Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 944	I might not get a lot of respect because im a 6 but putting full exhaust and an 11psi procharger kit brought my 190crank hp 3.8l v6 to 309whp. i think that is a consiterable diffrence. i have run both vortech and procharger on my 6 but in very diffrent setups i liked the vortech although they didnt make an aftercooler setup for it. i think they are both very good and you should just go with what you can find. I got good deals on both of my kits. __________________ '94 v6 Mustang Custom twin turbo kit by Justin @ vmp Split port engine swap from a 2000 v6 mustang 388whp 435wtq Want to go fishing in the Florida Keys? http://www.rustyiv.com/

06-24-2005, 09:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
Stangdude27 Silver 2003 GT Conv Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ft Walton Beach,Florida Posts: 399	I'm just jumping into the middle here on the whole supercharger set up. So running a procharger p-1sc stage 2 with the 3-core standard air to air intercooler at 12 psi on a completly stock gt motor is bad or good.

06-25-2005, 05:51 AM	#20 (permalink)
dom whos gonna ban me next? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: baltimore, MD Posts: 1,268	what size pulley? the level of restriction is very different between the 3core and 2core. also, what is your A:F and what is your rwhp? i ran a 2core with a 3.3 inch pulley and it spun a bearing. on the new motor im using that same size pulley with a d1 __________________ 2007 explorer limited procharged 2002gt sold new project: 427w c4 9" fox

06-25-2005, 02:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
foncarelli Everyday Im Hustlin Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ecorse, Michigan Posts: 3,647	I am running at about 9lbs with no problems but i like my rwhp where it is right now until i get my internals forged. __________________

06-25-2005, 04:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
Stangdude27 Silver 2003 GT Conv Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ft Walton Beach,Florida Posts: 399	I just ordered the kit and will be installing in less than two weeks. Just wondering what the word is on the procharger system. I'm sure I'll have to take it easy until I get the internals upgraded. Once I get it all installed I'll get the dyno sheet on here with pics.