SnTBakosFinest

So basically, I see us screwed with the war in Iraq, at this very moment.

Now, you may say "we got Saddam" or "We capture Al Queda people in Iraq" ect. Unfortunately, we were to fight people that support terrorism, or have terrorists there.

Not sure how many people have noticed this, but terrorists in the mid east tend to FOLLOW AROUND AMERICAN TROOPS. Meaning they go where we go, so they can kill us, or injure us somehow.

We origionally went there in search of WMDs. Right? We had multiple advisors say there aren't any, and they were fired.

Was Iraq a threat to us? Not really, considering we whiped out their military in the early 90s. We bombed Iraq quite a few times after it, but mainly because Saddam wanted to be a dick and not allow inspectors in.

So, we capture Saddam. Was he illusive in the past? No, we had him after the Gulf War, but we did not remove him for the fact that it was not the right time. This time, wasn't the right time either, in my belief.

Yes, Saddam is a horrible person, who slaughtered many people, allowed his sons to rape young girls, and many other things. Should we go around taking care of these evil dictators?

Thats for you all to decide. Just remember, these evil leaders happen to be everywhere. Libya, Yemen, China, Venezuela (i beleive its that one?) North Korea, IRAN, and thats just a few.

You can't force democracy to work people. Thats not how we did it over 200 years ago. We rose up, against a stronger country, one that controlled us, and we had an ally. Can we just walk into a country, say "you're out, this guy is in" sure. Is it going to actually work peacefully? God no.

Are we in Iraq for the right reason? Sure, to try to help these poor people out. We aren't there anymore for "WMDs" and we aren't exactly there for the terrorists, considering many happen to come over from other countries, such as Iran.

I personally beleive Bush wanted a reason to hit Iraq for his own reasons.

NOW lets look at something else.

We have thousands of troops scattered in Iraq. Iran, is next door. Who openly supports terrorism, and who we know, is toying around with nuclear technology.

Lets make this clear. Iran cannot hit US soil with a nuclear missle. Backpack bomb, sure.

The bigger threat: Their missles can hit Iraq with ease. Now tell me, what happens when the develop a nuclear weapon, and they point it at oh lets say..Bagdad, and basically tell us to get the hell out?

Are we going to change directions and head towards Iran with a nuclear missle aimed at us? Are we going to say "you shoot one we'll shoot one back"

Sounds pretty easy to say that. Unfortunately, they have allies, we shoot one, they shoot one, allies jump in, and we have a bigass world war. Oh, and not to mention, terrorists running around screaming Jihad still.

And not to mention, the master mind of 9/11 Osama Bin Hidin (yes hidin, not laden ..hes a coward and hides in caves.) is still out there, as far as we know. Now supposedly he might be hiding in a mountain range bordering afghanistan and...pakistan? I beleive.

Explain to me, why are there more troops in Iraq, then there are in Afghanistan searching for this guy. Saddam was NOT a bigger threat then Osama for the fact that Saddam never had the capabilities to hit US soil. Osama did. He used human bombs, basically. He twisted these peoples minds, into driving airplanes into buildings.

Should Saddam be dead? You bet. But then again, so should many other people. But now isn't the time.

I had family in Iraq. My cousin who is very close to me. He did two tours, was a LT in a sniper batallion. Both years, he was in Baghdad.

He came back and basically said this "there is nothing and no one worth saving in that country."

Please, call him wrong when you have seen and been through what he has been through.

He is now waiting to be deployed for a third time. But hes pushing to go to afghanistan.

I support the troops no matter what they do. They obey their orders. And yes, they do protect us, and they do a damn good job of it.

However, I do not support the war in Iraq. I would support a war in a country worth destroying, ex: Iran.

Yes, this is my opinion. I'm somewhat ignorant to politics, mainly because I'm 17, and it hasn't mattered that much to me until now.

But before you give me a "why are you talkin about this, you can't even vote yet" or something. Just remember its my generations war.

If you read all of this, youve got a better attention span then I do =x But thanks for reading. *waits for some bashing*

Shambles

Good writeup...little heavy on the spacing...but I'll let it slide.

You do have a point...our troops should be focused on Afganistan (which is now falling apart) and not Iraq. There wasnt a link to Iraq and 9/11...so why we are in there is beyond me.

We also had the best chance to get Osama during the firefight in 2002 in Tora Bora. What did we do? We sent in the Afghani troops to clean up and get Osama. HELLO! Earth to the commanders!! You send in more troops to get Osama, you dont send in the 2nd string to get him. Its no wonder he escaped.

How do you not catch a 70 year old Arab on Dialysis? Seriously!

We did have the chance to get Saddam in the early nineties during Storm/Shield. At that time, Rummy AND Cheney saw no good way to enter Baghdad and to remove Saddam from power and have a good exit strategy. This was during the FIRST Bush administration. The situation never changed a decade later. 41 and his adminstration knew that if they took Saddam out there would be a huge civil war that would erupt putting US Troops lives at risk and in the crosshairs. 43 ignored this fact.

How do I know that 41's administration knew: THEY PUBLISHED A 900 PAGE DOCUMENT DETAILING WHY THEY DIDNT OVERTHROW SADDAM!

Simply put, Saddam was put there to be a buffer to Iran and the other nations. Iran and Iraq had never gotten along, and leaving Saddam in power meant that Iran had their focus elsewhere.

Truth be told, most Iranians dont hate the American people. Many of them are pro-West. They are just stuck in a country where the leadership is fanatical and rigged, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

The possibility of Iran getting ahold of enriched uranium and creating a bomb is there, but they are a few years away from actually making a bomb. That said, we still could be in Iraq in a few years time. The only way to stop this is to have the US Govt support the Iranian people and erode the leadership of Iran from the inside out. You dont go straight to the fanatical leader with another fanatical leader, it just doesnt work.

Now there is a new report from the Army that was released today. Let me bring the headline forth for you:

Army: Troops to stay in Iraq until 2010
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061011/..._st_pe/us_iraq

Now, last I checked, weren't we assured that we would be greeted in the streets by the Iraqi's and that this operation would be an in and out operation? 2010 doesnt seem to be an in and out date to me.

A new report was released not too long ago saying we are creating more fanaticism than we are preventing in Iraq. Another report came out saying that more than, get ready for this, 2,660 Civilians were killed in Iraq in the MONTH of September. Overall throughout this conflict, more than 655,000 Civilians have been killed. This might seem like an insignificant number, but its quite a large number when put into the relationship of the population of Iraq and the percentage of Civilians killed.

Population of Iraq (according to the CIA): ~26,074,906
Number of Civilian Deaths: ~655,000
Percentage of the population killed in this occupation: ~2.5%

2.5% of the population. That's not a small, insignificant number at all. Lets also not mention the 30% unemployment rampant throughout the country.

Its a civil war in Iraq, and we are the cause of it.

The whole "stay the course" and "stand up, stand down" policy is a joke. There are 30,000 Iraqi police now Mr. President. I believe that it is time for the US Military to stand down.

Even the people of Iraq know they are in a civil war. It IS a civil war. There is no denying it. You cannot actually believe that its not, when 2 factions are going at each other, not caring about the lives of the citizens around them. Our troops are going on multiple tours of duty, not because they are being asked to, but because they have a band of brotherhood with their fellow soldiers. Their Company. Their Batallion. We are outstreched and overworked.

And now with a Nuclear North Korea on the map, its time to rethink our total strategy.

Bring our troops home. Get a timetable going, and bring them back.

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Chris "Shambles" Chamblee

Jack The Ripper

We STILL have military bases in... Germany and Japan as results of WWII, which ended what, 60 ****ing years ago? Plus we still have a presence in Korea since the Korean War.

Why the hell is anybody suprised we still have troops in iraq? I wouldnt be the least bit suprised if we ended up occupying that nation with permmant military bases.

and WTF is with everything thinking that we went to iraq because of 911? or because of terrorists? We went there because Saddam kept dodging weapon inspectors and refusing to cooperate which were arrangements he agreed to after we beat his ass out of kuwait

He kept breaking his promises, the UN was too pussy to do anything about it, and rather than wait for them to become a new iran or north korea, we decided to go head and squash that threat before it got worse.
And or course we arent gonna invade Korea, the US does not want to go to war with China, and China does not want to go to war with the US.
As far as Iran, i dunno, we picked the one who was constantly showing the UN his ass.

God, i got in this conversation with my girlfriend last night, it is amazing how many people are completly ignorant to the reasons we went in iraq.

This is gonna be a long drawn out proccess.


As far as everyone saying the US needs to jsut pull out of the middle east and be done with them......?
Conflict in the middle east means the US can buddy up with whoever has the oil. we give them weapons, they cut us deals on oil, fat cats in america get rich and innocent troops die right?

Think about this.

Here is LIFE without Middle East Oil.

America backs out,quits pulling its puppet strings and the unrest in the middle easy finally chills out. Middle eastern countrys work out thier differences and realise the US has been manipulating and using them.
They decide to no longer supply the US with oil, after all, China will be the largest economical force in about 20 years.
No mor oil from the middle east. Prices of gas jump to about $8.00 a Gallon.

People now have to BUDGET gas in thier bills, 300-400 a month. If they cant afford that, they have to use public transportation which will quickly be overbooked.

Rice, Grain, Meat, Vegetables, Clothes, Pepsi, EVERYTHING you buy is shipped right to your local market. Prices jump up to recieve the materials needed to make a product, energy bills skyrocket for the manufacturing plants, shipping prices skyrocket to deliver the product.

Next thing you know yer paying $2.45 for a single can of coke. Small businesses cannot compete, larger ones struggle, people lose thier jobs, companys collapse to the point where the communications infrastucture loses integrity, SQWEST, SBC, AT&T cannot afford to man enough peopel to keep thier networks running very well.

Washington DC starts to LOSE control over the USA. It turns back to the days where mass communication was not possible, states end up running virtually independant by either circumstance or even possibly by choice.

Citys, Towns, filled with unemployed, there will be people WITH food and People WITHOUT, that is how things will be seperated, the supply lines have stopped moving, crime becomes to run rapant as normal every day people get desperate and rob and kill in order to feed thier familys

martial law is declared, hatred for the governement is at an alltime high, there becomes an uprising of people against the government, the government already fragile collapses.

The USA, once the largest and most powerful nation in the world is turned to a crime riddin economical shit hole. The country is in chaos, the USA is no more.

lol

Yeah.... we kind of need to be out there, we need the turmoil in the middle east. The one thing that hass never changed since day 1 of this world? Survival of the fittest. We dont want to lose that spot, or we lose everything.

Shambles

Its not the fact that there are military bases there. Last time I checked there wasnt a civil war that exploded post "Mission Accomplished" in either of those countries. The reason why they were setup is also a different reason.

Korea was setup to be a deterrant to the North Koreans. Germany and Japan were setup to quell any rebellion post WWII.

How are you going to setup a foreign military base in the middle of a civil war?

Because that was one of the arguments pushed forward (Either you're with us or against us...Saddam supported Al Qaida w/ money and training grounds, etc...). This was after all part of the War on Terror and the Axis of Evil.

PART of the main reason is that Saddam wasnt cooperating. The other half was because of bad intelligence from Chalibi and other intelligence outlets (CIA, etc) saying that Saddam had WMD's ready to go. We know this is now false. The only WMD's that have been recovered were so degraded they could no be used in combat.

The focus has suddenly changed from WMD's to freeing the Iraqi people. I dont see too many Iraqi's being freed though.

We wouldnt go to North Korea for 2 reasons.

1) We are too outstreched.

2) China doesnt want the war with NK not because of the presence of US troops, but because China doesnt want the influx of refugees out of NK in their borders.

Besides, the US wouldnt even attack China. We're basically the main reason for their HUGE economic growth.

Pot, meet kettle.

In the drumming up this was supposed to be a quick process. Now its long and drawn out. You cant have it both ways here.

So this war is about Oil? Iraq has hurt OPEC more than it has helped it. Large pipeline disruptions doesnt help barrel production.

Not quite. We do have enough stores of oil to sustain ourselves for the next 10 years (Alaska and the Gulf Ridge). Lets also not mention the sudden rapid development of Solar electricty, wind energy, hydroelectric energy, etc. What you have outlined would be if there was a TOTAL cutoff of oil, with absolutely nothing able to replenish it.

Yes, because I like having my troops streched thin, resources drained, and my generals and military staff at odds with the commander in chief and Secretary of Defense.

Its not our place to be there.

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Chris "Shambles" Chamblee

Jack The Ripper

LOL... yer an idiot. <laugh>

Jack The Ripper

I'll just play with this one a little bit.

----------------------------
Because that was one of the arguments pushed forward (Either you're with us or against us...Saddam supported Al Qaida w/ money and training grounds, etc...). This was after all part of the War on Terror and the Axis of Evil.


--- What are your sources for this? When did we sit there and claim that Saddam and Al Queda were the reasons for this war? This was a war started because the UN was too big of a pussy to back up its own demands and we saw the ability to squash a problme before it got worse

-----------------------------
PART of the main reason is that Saddam wasnt cooperating. The other half was because of bad intelligence from Chalibi and other intelligence outlets (CIA, etc) saying that Saddam had WMD's ready to go. We know this is now false. The only WMD's that have been recovered were so degraded they could no be used in combat.

--- So you have proof there was no WMD? if he diddnt have them why did he continually dodge the weapon inspectors? He could still have his shitty little country if he would have cooperated. You mean to tell me it is not possible to bury that crap out in the middle of the deser to where nobody would find it? Bad intelligence maybe, however his own actions re-enforced that belief, but there is no proof they WMD are not there. We dont have the manpower to dig a hole every 10 feet in the friggin desert to find where he stashed him, or he could have easily transported them to anopther country or even given them to any number of organizations.
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The focus has suddenly changed from WMD's to freeing the Iraqi people. I dont see too many Iraqi's being freed though.

Weather or not the WMD threat which there is evidence that it did, but not a whole lot that it diddnt,either way, they are gone, hidden, buried, destroyed, whatever. At this point in the situation the WMD are obviously not much of a threat anymore. So of course were gonna "Free" the iraqui people because america is so arrogant they think they know everything best for everyone.



Oh, and as far as the other countrys with us invading them, the one thing we left relativly intact was thier military and governmental structure, however, this time we obliterated thier governmental structure so they had nothign to fall back on. the civil was in iraq is a direct result of our interaction, this was a new type of war. "Kill the leaders first"



The reason i dont like discussing politics is everything thinks they know everything about everything, they think everyone else is wrong, quite frankkly, i dont put much merrit in other peoples beliefs in politics.

personally i think politics are a nasty business. i tend to stay out.

Badfish

911 was the governments fault

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Jack The Ripper

Dude, it totally was, diddnt you see satan in the smoke?

Plus the gov killed kennedy and marilyn manroe

Dont forget about the US gov turning a blind eye to thier alien buddys while they pluck people out of thier bed and problem them and mutilate cattle in exchange for technology that humans arent smart enough to develop, such as digital watches

lol....

Badfish

exactly

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PColav6

A lot of people think 9/11 was actually planned and carried out by our government....




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PColav6

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Badfish

no shit?? ...

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Lances03SVT

Which is such BS that I can't believe people actually think it's true.

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2003 Cobra SOLD

Jack The Ripper

There was that stupid half hour video that was being passed around, several people i work with were easily suckered into it.

to make somebody believe something, make it something that either
A) They want it to be true
B) they are afraid it is true.

Stupid people are afraid to believe it is true, they are fed these rediculous information and preposterous "evidence" that is all one sided. Then they also WANT it to be true because of the sensationalization that comes with it which is backed up by the anti-authoritism that is inbred in every person to a degree.

Idiots if you ask me.

Kinda like that Farenheit 911 by that fat ****. Extremly one sided argument that bombards you.

People too lazy to think for themselves, they see a one sided documentary and consider themselves an expert and dont even question the sources or validity of the information they are being fed.

"It looks real and professional, so im sure it is true"

Lances03SVT

Exactly!!

You can edit and paste enough thing's together to make anything seem real.

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2003 Cobra SOLD

SnTBakosFinest

Err if I remember correctly in Bush's 9/11 speech, we were to "target the axis of evil" or something like that. Basically anyone who supported, or housed terrorists.

And if I also remember correctly, we uncovered some evidence that Osama attempted to get Saddam to help him out, and Saddam denied.

Our basis for these wars breaking out, we will call it one HUGE war called "Terrorism War" for now, is to basically whipe out all terrorists, and #1, was susposed to be Osama.

For some reason we went off track, and headed towards Iraq. Who in the 90s, fought as fair as a war could get. With troops, not women strapped with explosives walking into a resturaunt.

In Bush's speech, he did mention Iraq. And everyone applauded, while I sat there with my father and basically went "wtf?"

As for Saddam saying inspectors couldn't walk into his country..

It may have been arrogance, or pride, or he might've actually had somethin cooking up. What it was, we may never know.

I enjoy a political discussion, even though 99.5% of the time, you won't make anyone else see your side.

But it is nice to see what someone has to say.

xlr8r

whatever you are, an ass or an elephant, both have some (they maybe small) moral reasoning in their beliefs. as far as what that fat tard had to say some is true some is not. now nobody is perfect. one person cannot have all the perfect ideas. thats why we are a democratic nation. america was built by hard working people who wanted a change. it happened at the right time, a good leader and a assload of people that where tired of the bull sh!t. now by the time iraqis realize this some of us probibly wont be on the planet anymore. there is a time when you need to take things into your own hands. we gave them a jumpstart, its on them now. back to that fat tard you people say hes so one sided, you should reread what you wrote, im guessing its one sided as well. dont get me wrong i dont agree with alot of things he said. but i try to look at both sides of things. now iraq is at a civil war did we cause it? yes and no. they have been fighting for over 2000 years, then here we come and take what structure they did have away. now what do you think they are going to do? their are going to fight for what the think is best for their situation. we do the same thing just not so violent. its called politics in the U.S. im not here to change your opinion im here to tell you to look a both sides before you jump to a conclusion and be so adiment that your right. the reason why we went to iraq doesnt really mater now. were there. now somebody tell what the problem is now? is it that we have troops in iraq? well were not leaving for a while. dont complain about something unless you have a solution to the problem.

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flowmaster after cat exhaust, mis-matched cobra wheels with skinny 275s on 10.5 rears, and 7 years worth of crap stuck in the paint

Pilks

i think we should bomb everyone

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http://www.gotstang.com/profile.php?pilks

WaterDR

We are in Iraq for one thing....Iran. If you don't think Iran is a problem, talk to Israel. Iran will become a huge issue in the years to come and there is certainly logic to having troops deployed in that part of the country. We don't live in a vacuum. Hitler kills 6,000,000 jews because we decided to ignore the problem.

As far as people thinking that the government created 911...hey the worlds full of idiots. Some people believe in the Easter Bunny and some people believe wearing a copper bracelet will cure their woes.....yes, there are truly dumb people on this planet and there always will be. But look how boring life would be w/o them.

0.08% of the soldiers who have been sent to Iraq have been sent home in body-bags. A great price to pay...no doubt. If I did the math right, 3,000,000 have served and about 2,500 have been killed over a period of what? 4 years? The loss of live's needs to be put into perspective. I wonder what the death rate would be for a city in the US of that size....or how about a city in Iraq before we invaded?

While you can argue if we should be in Iraq, make no misstake, our troops volunteer. Many of those serving joined after the war. They know the risk and they made the decision. Unfortunatley what we will never how is how many Amrican lives have been saved in the US because of their efforts. I would be willing to bet that it is ten times what we have lost in the desert.

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