Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Page 3

whitethunder46 · 03-10-2006, 12:23 PM

About that turbo on a 5.4L. I remember reading from I think Steen Racing. They did a 5.4L DOHC fully built with heads, cams, intake, everything. On top of that they did a 101mm turbo, yea that think put down 1,488RWHP I believe. Of course pure drag car

r3dn3ck · 03-10-2006, 12:32 PM

1400hp means that they're pushing gobs of boost with low compression or they're running high compression and race gas on still pretty high boost. You just have to flow a lot of air to make those numbers. The 4V heads make it happen.

I'm looking for 500 streetable hp in a mild config on 91 octane california gas, down the road a little. I'm hoping for 325/425rw on motor. Should be good for low 12's on street tires.

Any cam specialists in here? Wanna start playing with cam specs?

FLSTANG · 03-12-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleen S330

Since the old motor had non pi and the new one did, i didn't have to worry on that part but almost everything swapped over. The valve covers you couldn't swap unless your 4.6 sohc had the 13 bolts style. My motor came with the coil over plugs, but i took them off and used my MSD coils and msd wires, that way i didn't have to try to find out how to do coil over plug set up. The swap is easy, lets just say, i did the swap by myself, at my house, with a cherry picker and jackstands. my wife and friends can vouch for that.

what other mods are needed to swap out the 5.4 from thhe 4.6, tranny wise, wiring, and will the new harness run the factory instruments? this is my first mustang, and i plan on eating alot of rice this summer. please help me put these punks in their place Dan

whitethunder46 · 03-12-2006, 02:20 PM

I'm pretty sure that if all your doing is the short block. Then just do a 5.4L with pistons, rods, crank, rings, etc. Then all you need is adapter plates for the 4.6 manifold. Everything else just swaps over, including wiring harness.... am I correct????

chip6990 · 03-12-2006, 05:34 PM

you might have to extend some wires, other than that the headers/exhaust will be the most difficult

r3dn3ck · 03-13-2006, 09:53 AM

whitethunder is correct. Basically the only thing you're changing is the bottom end. The intake is the same (hopefully you're using a mustang intake cuz it's much easier that way) and all you need to make it work is a set of plates. RR only made 20 sets so get them while you can. There's another company working on a plate design and they'll have them out shortly from what I understand.

The exhaust needs to be widened at the H/X pipe to allow it to mate properly to the manifolds. This usually costs about 50-150 bucks for an exhaust shop to do. It's pretty easy but requires light welding on the mid-pipe. Wires should all fit but a couple may need extending or re-routing (usually not).

Other than that this is a pure bolt on.

To make it run nicely you really need to have a tune done. The extra cubes make it run less than perfect with a tune for a 4.6 on it. To make maximum power you need to add duration to the intake side of the cam and balance the exhaust side and LSA for that. Even an off the shelf cam like Comp or VT makes would be nice.

Other considerations existy but are all optional. A fuel pump wouldn't hurt. A set of 31 spline axles and a 31 spline diff would be nice. A stronger than stock tranny like a built T5/T45 or a TKO or T56 would be nice. Otherwise realize that you can frag a tranny with that much power and try not to. New U-joints couldn't hurt. A cobra brake kit, I consider mandatory. heavier front springs for stock suspension cars isn't a bad idea either (03 cobra front springs will have the perfect rate for a stock ride).

FLstang: read the whole thread and you'll discover lots of information you've missed. It's a good idea for this thread.

Swap Update: I just cleared the cash to get some really nice H-Beams so I'm going to tinker with my build plan and change the cams a bit. I had been planning to use a grind that tops out around 5500 but now that RPM isn't a problem in the bottom end I'm spec'ing cams to be good to around a 6500-6800rpm redline. I'll only ever use that extra RPM at the track but it's nice to be able to get past 5500 without worrying about snapping a rod.

r3dn3ck · 03-13-2006, 10:11 AM

another note: If you have a Non-PI 4.6, now is the time to step up to PI power.

Saleen S330 · 03-13-2006, 10:29 AM

Tranny bolts right up, also my saleen pulleys, steering pump, A/C, i didn't have to extend any wires. i did have to cut the bottom of my hood for clearance but not all the way through the hood, cut some of the passenger side exhaust flange on the outer side to make it fit and so it wouldn't rub, and had to extend some of the H pipe. The tubular K memeber helps so so so much, and i would recommend it with a swap or without. just putting on my starter by taking the rim off and not getting under the car was nice. I would get the intake adater plates now, trust me, waiting 3 (THREE) months to get them sucked. And don't go off of, "We'll make them soon or in two weeks" heard that for about 3 months straight. If you want to know if it looks good under the hood, ask R3DN3CK, i sent him a pic.
If anyone wants me to send them a pic, let me know your email and i'll send it.

My future mods are the CAMS and the intake r3dn3ck has been talking about. Should be going this weekend to get it dyno/tuned and will post the results.

floppy · 03-13-2006, 10:37 AM

hey, send me a pic. i really want to see it. i think i may have found a 5.4 for my car. im just trying to talk the price down a little. with any luck i should have a 5.4 in my car by summer unless i buy a foxbody from a neighbor first.

my email is ryan@rmcd.net

Saleen S330 · 03-13-2006, 11:34 AM

Sent the pics to you floppy, there's a couple to look at. And i sent some to show that i did the swap at my house and it's easy to do. Hope you like them.

chip6990 · 03-13-2006, 06:42 PM

i will take some pix as well
captain_chip6990@yahoo.com

post #'s asap

r3dn3ck · 03-13-2006, 09:41 PM

forgot to mention one of the bigger concerns for 5speed guys... 8bolt flywheel and a suitable clutch. Stock clutches are ok but I don't think they're sufficient to the torque production.

And I can attest to Saleen 330's install. It looks like a factory 4.6 to the untrained eye. I know exactly what to look for and it took me a second to see the difference. I'd imagine his Saleen will be flying out of the hole right about now.

Saleen S330 · 03-14-2006, 04:55 AM

I did add an Cobra 11in Flywheel and clutch when i installed the Cobra T-45 and they are 8 bolt. It looks like a nice looking 4.6 if you don't know what to look for. The intake adapter plates come shiny but i painted them flat black to hide them. And with out the tune, it's nice to have it in 3rd, floor it, and it feels like you just got whiplash.

Saleen S330 · 03-14-2006, 06:04 AM

Started working on this but click here and you can see my car and mods. i'll have to touch it up later though

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2292671

Twin Turbo 330 · 03-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Hello fellas i just bought a 5.4 motor out of a 2002 superduty this weekend for a 100 bucks. The bottom end is seized up but i planned on replacing the internals with forged anyways. I can't wait to dig into it. i've read this whole thread and it has been very useful. Thanks alot! I was considering stroking my 4.6l to a 5.0 but it's cheaper just to go with the 5.4l.

Here's a question for r3dn3ck or any one who knows the answer, does a superduty motor have more power than out of an expedition or f150?

r3dn3ck · 03-14-2006, 09:55 AM

no. Superduty motors are usually equipped with heavier duty cooling and charging systems.

Saleen S330 · 03-14-2006, 09:55 AM

2002 Ford Super Duty (continued)

Driving Impressions
The 5.4-liter V8 is rated 260 horsepower and 350 foot-pounds of torque.

I found this on a site that talked about the 2002 super duty.

dannyb785 · 03-14-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twin Turbo 330

Hello fellas i just bought a 5.4 motor out of a 2002 superduty this weekend for a 100 bucks. The bottom end is seized up but i planned on replacing the internals with forged anyways. I can't wait to dig into it. i've read this whole thread and it has been very useful. Thanks alot! I was considering stroking my 4.6l to a 5.0 but it's cheaper just to go with the 5.4l.

Here's a question for r3dn3ck or any one who knows the answer, does a superduty motor have more power than out of an expedition or f150?

when you get a bigger engine, doesn't that mean that any performance part you buy, must be a part made for that particular engine? I can't imagine headers, intake, blowers, or anything from a 4.6 hooking up with a 5.4

Saleen S330 · 03-14-2006, 10:02 AM

The 5.4 is a stretch 4.6. I put 2003 GT headers on mine, the saleen pulleys fit perfectly on there, intake plates then the 4.6 intake fits. The PI heads and cams are the same on the 4.6 and 5.4. The serpentine belt fits. The ford racing oil pump fits 4.6 and 5.4's. That's why ford went to the modular motors, they're almost the same, either it's a 4,6,8,10 cylinder motor. The rods and pistons and maybe the crank are different.

That's why the swap is so easy and cheap to do.

Twin Turbo 330 · 03-14-2006, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the info. Oh in case you are wondering from the name the Turbos aren't there yet that is after the motor install.

whitethunder46 · 03-14-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyb785

when you get a bigger engine, doesn't that mean that any performance part you buy, must be a part made for that particular engine? I can't imagine headers, intake, blowers, or anything from a 4.6 hooking up with a 5.4

Thats the BEAUTY of modular engines.

r3dn3ck · 03-14-2006, 11:00 AM

exhaust and stuff won't hook right up... but then it never does really even on 4.6's you have to fiddle with them a little. Tossing a 5.4 in the mix means very little overall. You just need to extend the pipe in height a tad and width an even smaller amount.

<my $.02>
Hey TwinTurbo330... I don't know how much research you've done on a turbo conversion for this application but I'd probably be looking at a large single turbo kit than rather than a dual. you're pretty limited on underhood space and you'll need all the room you can get for a 3 or 4 core radiator to cool that thing. Look into the 76mm turbos available. You make plenty of exhaust volume to power a big single and have it spool up nice and quick and you won't spend the extra couple grand on piping and tuning, plus total power production will be higher with a big single than dual smaller units. </my $.02>

View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Not swapping. Think you guys are nuts for trying.	10	3.66%
Not swapping but find the topic interesting.	73	26.74%
Thinking about doing the swap but not in the next year.	77	28.21%
Definitely going to do the swap in the next year or so.	57	20.88%
Doing it now. Looking for an engine or awaiting delivery.	20	7.33%
Doing it now. Already bought an engine.	24	8.79%
Done. Got my 5.4L and showin my tail lights to camaro's every day.	12	4.40%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

03-10-2006, 12:23 PM	#61 (permalink)
whitethunder46 Always Detailin' Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,556	About that turbo on a 5.4L. I remember reading from I think Steen Racing. They did a 5.4L DOHC fully built with heads, cams, intake, everything. On top of that they did a 101mm turbo, yea that think put down 1,488RWHP I believe. Of course pure drag car __________________ supernissans.net 2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0S http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3022272

03-12-2006, 02:20 PM	#64 (permalink)
whitethunder46 Always Detailin' Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,556	I'm pretty sure that if all your doing is the short block. Then just do a 5.4L with pistons, rods, crank, rings, etc. Then all you need is adapter plates for the 4.6 manifold. Everything else just swaps over, including wiring harness.... am I correct???? __________________ supernissans.net 2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0S http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3022272

03-12-2006, 05:34 PM	#65 (permalink)
chip6990 Mustang Junkie!!!!!!! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Greeneville, TN Posts: 190	........ you might have to extend some wires, other than that the headers/exhaust will be the most difficult __________________ *12#'s + 125 shot of*

03-13-2006, 10:37 AM	#69 (permalink)
floppy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: royal palm beach, florida Posts: 1,809	hey, send me a pic. i really want to see it. i think i may have found a 5.4 for my car. im just trying to talk the price down a little. with any luck i should have a 5.4 in my car by summer unless i buy a foxbody from a neighbor first. my email is ryan@rmcd.net __________________ -Floppy Check out www.MustangGenerations.com

03-10-2006, 12:32 PM	#62 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	1400hp means that they're pushing gobs of boost with low compression or they're running high compression and race gas on still pretty high boost. You just have to flow a lot of air to make those numbers. The 4V heads make it happen. I'm looking for 500 streetable hp in a mild config on 91 octane california gas, down the road a little. I'm hoping for 325/425rw on motor. Should be good for low 12's on street tires. Any cam specialists in here? Wanna start playing with cam specs?

03-13-2006, 09:53 AM	#66 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	whitethunder is correct. Basically the only thing you're changing is the bottom end. The intake is the same (hopefully you're using a mustang intake cuz it's much easier that way) and all you need to make it work is a set of plates. RR only made 20 sets so get them while you can. There's another company working on a plate design and they'll have them out shortly from what I understand. The exhaust needs to be widened at the H/X pipe to allow it to mate properly to the manifolds. This usually costs about 50-150 bucks for an exhaust shop to do. It's pretty easy but requires light welding on the mid-pipe. Wires should all fit but a couple may need extending or re-routing (usually not). Other than that this is a pure bolt on. To make it run nicely you really need to have a tune done. The extra cubes make it run less than perfect with a tune for a 4.6 on it. To make maximum power you need to add duration to the intake side of the cam and balance the exhaust side and LSA for that. Even an off the shelf cam like Comp or VT makes would be nice. Other considerations existy but are all optional. A fuel pump wouldn't hurt. A set of 31 spline axles and a 31 spline diff would be nice. A stronger than stock tranny like a built T5/T45 or a TKO or T56 would be nice. Otherwise realize that you can frag a tranny with that much power and try not to. New U-joints couldn't hurt. A cobra brake kit, I consider mandatory. heavier front springs for stock suspension cars isn't a bad idea either (03 cobra front springs will have the perfect rate for a stock ride). FLstang: read the whole thread and you'll discover lots of information you've missed. It's a good idea for this thread. Swap Update: I just cleared the cash to get some really nice H-Beams so I'm going to tinker with my build plan and change the cams a bit. I had been planning to use a grind that tops out around 5500 but now that RPM isn't a problem in the bottom end I'm spec'ing cams to be good to around a 6500-6800rpm redline. I'll only ever use that extra RPM at the track but it's nice to be able to get past 5500 without worrying about snapping a rod.

03-13-2006, 10:11 AM	#67 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	another note: If you have a Non-PI 4.6, now is the time to step up to PI power.

03-13-2006, 10:29 AM	#68 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	Tranny bolts right up, also my saleen pulleys, steering pump, A/C, i didn't have to extend any wires. i did have to cut the bottom of my hood for clearance but not all the way through the hood, cut some of the passenger side exhaust flange on the outer side to make it fit and so it wouldn't rub, and had to extend some of the H pipe. The tubular K memeber helps so so so much, and i would recommend it with a swap or without. just putting on my starter by taking the rim off and not getting under the car was nice. I would get the intake adater plates now, trust me, waiting 3 (THREE) months to get them sucked. And don't go off of, "We'll make them soon or in two weeks" heard that for about 3 months straight. If you want to know if it looks good under the hood, ask R3DN3CK, i sent him a pic. If anyone wants me to send them a pic, let me know your email and i'll send it. My future mods are the CAMS and the intake r3dn3ck has been talking about. Should be going this weekend to get it dyno/tuned and will post the results.

03-13-2006, 11:34 AM	#70 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	Sent the pics to you floppy, there's a couple to look at. And i sent some to show that i did the swap at my house and it's easy to do. Hope you like them.

03-13-2006, 06:42 PM	#71 (permalink)
chip6990 Mustang Junkie!!!!!!! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Greeneville, TN Posts: 190	pics i will take some pix as well captain_chip6990@yahoo.com post #'s asap __________________ *12#'s + 125 shot of*

03-13-2006, 09:41 PM	#72 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	forgot to mention one of the bigger concerns for 5speed guys... 8bolt flywheel and a suitable clutch. Stock clutches are ok but I don't think they're sufficient to the torque production. And I can attest to Saleen 330's install. It looks like a factory 4.6 to the untrained eye. I know exactly what to look for and it took me a second to see the difference. I'd imagine his Saleen will be flying out of the hole right about now.

03-14-2006, 04:55 AM	#73 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	I did add an Cobra 11in Flywheel and clutch when i installed the Cobra T-45 and they are 8 bolt. It looks like a nice looking 4.6 if you don't know what to look for. The intake adapter plates come shiny but i painted them flat black to hide them. And with out the tune, it's nice to have it in 3rd, floor it, and it feels like you just got whiplash.

03-14-2006, 06:04 AM	#74 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	Started working on this but click here and you can see my car and mods. i'll have to touch it up later though http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2292671

03-14-2006, 09:50 AM	#75 (permalink)
Twin Turbo 330 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 393	Hello fellas i just bought a 5.4 motor out of a 2002 superduty this weekend for a 100 bucks. The bottom end is seized up but i planned on replacing the internals with forged anyways. I can't wait to dig into it. i've read this whole thread and it has been very useful. Thanks alot! I was considering stroking my 4.6l to a 5.0 but it's cheaper just to go with the 5.4l. Here's a question for r3dn3ck or any one who knows the answer, does a superduty motor have more power than out of an expedition or f150?

03-14-2006, 09:55 AM	#76 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	no. Superduty motors are usually equipped with heavier duty cooling and charging systems.

03-14-2006, 09:55 AM	#77 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	2002 Ford Super Duty (continued) Driving Impressions The 5.4-liter V8 is rated 260 horsepower and 350 foot-pounds of torque. I found this on a site that talked about the 2002 super duty.

03-14-2006, 10:02 AM	#79 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	The 5.4 is a stretch 4.6. I put 2003 GT headers on mine, the saleen pulleys fit perfectly on there, intake plates then the 4.6 intake fits. The PI heads and cams are the same on the 4.6 and 5.4. The serpentine belt fits. The ford racing oil pump fits 4.6 and 5.4's. That's why ford went to the modular motors, they're almost the same, either it's a 4,6,8,10 cylinder motor. The rods and pistons and maybe the crank are different. That's why the swap is so easy and cheap to do.

03-14-2006, 10:09 AM	#80 (permalink)
Twin Turbo 330 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 393	Thanks for the info. Oh in case you are wondering from the name the Turbos aren't there yet that is after the motor install. __________________ 03 Sonic Blue GT (SOLD) Working on an 87' Notch now!