View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Voters: 220. You may not vote on this poll
Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine.
#6601
Over my stock NPI engine? Id like to see some total hp and torque numbers. Also possibly the difference between using the hardballer 5.4 intake or the adapter plates for the 4.6? Is the 5.4 intake worth the $700?
#6602
This has been said over and over again... but I will repeat it once again. Your MAF is NOT matched to the injectors, or vice-versa. They are totally separate inputs to the tune. When you go with a larger injector, you need to input the injector flowrate, and pulsewidth. That will get you most of the way there with a stock MAF. Upgrading the MAF will require you to input the correct transfer function for that MAF. Just because the Lightning used that particular MAF with 42# injectors does not mean you can slap those same 2 parts on your Mustang on a stock tune and expect it to run correctly. The tune needs to be altered to work with whatever injectors and MAF you choose to run. BTW, on a N/A setup, there is no reason to upgrade your MAF, the stocker is good to ~450 rwhp.
This I know. This MAF was cal'd to the 24's in the tune I have on the 4 bank. I was just using trial and error on matchups on the new setup.
And whether or not it is needed, I have an intense increase in power when adding the 90mm MAF to the car when it had the 4.6. I can honestly say that when I plugged the 90mm maf cald to the 24 lb injectors, I felt the biggest increase in power than I have ever felt with any bolt ons for a mod motor minus power adders.
#6603
either way, I am working on a mail order tune on the xcal3 to get me going with the current setup.
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
#6604
yes the hardballer 5.4 intake is definately worth the money. I am using adapter plates now and i really dont like them. It's been said before that they are basically a band-aid on a broken bone.
#6605
Ok, here is what my setup is going to be as soon as I get the headgaskets and headbolts, along with the adapter plates from Jason.
Non-PI 5.4L block
PI heads
PI intake
75mm Throttlebody
80mm MAC CAI
Modular Powerhouse Custom Cams (Similar to VT stage IIs)
Catless H-pipe
Pypes Violator catback
4.30s
31 spline Moser axles
will be launching on Hoosier slicks.
Non-PI 5.4L block
PI heads
PI intake
75mm Throttlebody
80mm MAC CAI
Modular Powerhouse Custom Cams (Similar to VT stage IIs)
Catless H-pipe
Pypes Violator catback
4.30s
31 spline Moser axles
will be launching on Hoosier slicks.
#6608
reread
This has been said over and over again... but I will repeat it once again. Your MAF is NOT matched to the injectors, or vice-versa. They are totally separate inputs to the tune. When you go with a larger injector, you need to input the injector flowrate, and pulsewidth. That will get you most of the way there with a stock MAF. Upgrading the MAF will require you to input the correct transfer function for that MAF. Just because the Lightning used that particular MAF with 42# injectors does not mean you can slap those same 2 parts on your Mustang on a stock tune and expect it to run correctly. The tune needs to be altered to work with whatever injectors and MAF you choose to run. BTW, on a N/A setup, there is no reason to upgrade your MAF, the stocker is good to ~450 rwhp.
I never said matched to the injectors, I said calibration. He had a stock tune and did not have a calibration for the maf and injectors that were in it.
#6609
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
#6610
Yes because the block isn't siamese so the cylinder wall thickness will be way too thin over .03".
#6611
I really don't DD mine, so I could care less about gas milage. My DD is a 1987 Golf. Only time I really drive my car is during cruises, or when the weather is sunny out.
#6614
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
Last edited by 97gtstang; 04-16-2009 at 07:18 PM.
#6616
i dont know HP/TQ from HPS and plates but you will get more from the HPS since its made for the 5.4 swap ;> flows better air and you will have more up in the top end where the plates/intake will fall short due to less air flow available. 200-300 dollars more for a better system that will keep your injector spray pattern better and flow more. im going plates and PI intake cause i got both for a total of 280$ to my doorstep ;>
#6617
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
#6618
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
I now have the HPS Hardball'r, TF Elbow, 75mm TB, and BBK CAI all with 24# injectors all with a re-tune. I plan to visit the dyno again soon to get the after numbers.
#6619
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
Actually i just looked again, and their all really close to having the same curve... it looked like the Sullivan and maybe some others outperformed at high rpm power... so it seems like the only benefit to using that would be keeping the stock hood... and let me tell you, that would be a real nice benefit!
Last edited by ibanezsvo; 04-17-2009 at 06:00 AM. Reason: correction:
#6621
THEY ARE THE SUCK! I pulled mine about 4 times before I got leaks to stop, and had to customize the gaskets and sealing surfaces. but its one of your only choices unless you go with the HPS. Just talked to them, they have 3 on the shelf.
#6622
The plates are really a last resort, if you can at all pull the money for the intake, do it, much less of a pain in the ***.
The main things you'll have to do with it are getting a heater hose fitting (I used a 1/2npt to 3/4 barb) and the stock fuel rail isnt wide enough. (I ghetto'd it up with some fuel injection hose and clamps). I think mine was also missing two bolt holes, one for the TB and one for the throttle cable bracket, but I didnt really consider that a big deal.
The main things you'll have to do with it are getting a heater hose fitting (I used a 1/2npt to 3/4 barb) and the stock fuel rail isnt wide enough. (I ghetto'd it up with some fuel injection hose and clamps). I think mine was also missing two bolt holes, one for the TB and one for the throttle cable bracket, but I didnt really consider that a big deal.
#6623
either way, I am working on a mail order tune on the xcal3 to get me going with the current setup.
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
Ok, here is what my setup is going to be as soon as I get the headgaskets and headbolts, along with the adapter plates from Jason.
Non-PI 5.4L block
PI heads
PI intake
75mm Throttlebody
80mm MAC CAI
Modular Powerhouse Custom Cams (Similar to VT stage IIs)
Catless H-pipe
Pypes Violator catback
4.30s
31 spline Moser axles
will be launching on Hoosier slicks.
Non-PI 5.4L block
PI heads
PI intake
75mm Throttlebody
80mm MAC CAI
Modular Powerhouse Custom Cams (Similar to VT stage IIs)
Catless H-pipe
Pypes Violator catback
4.30s
31 spline Moser axles
will be launching on Hoosier slicks.
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
http://classifieds.stangnet.com/show...?product=54189
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
That is exactly what I built. Here is what I made on the dyno with the PI intake, adapter plates, stock TB, elbow, 19# injectors...
I now have the HPS Hardball'r, TF Elbow, 75mm TB, and BBK CAI all with 24# injectors all with a re-tune. I plan to visit the dyno again soon to get the after numbers.
I now have the HPS Hardball'r, TF Elbow, 75mm TB, and BBK CAI all with 24# injectors all with a re-tune. I plan to visit the dyno again soon to get the after numbers.
BTW, plates suck *** anyway. Get the intake. It's worth probably 20hp peak over a PI intake and plates.
They actually pretty good stuff. Even my reichards were like that with the gasket sealing. Gasket alignment is critical and a BITCH with plates. The intake install on the other hand was stupid fast and easy.
#6625
Red,
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
#6627
Well since it leans over a bit at about 5000rpm, I'd shift pretty near there... probably 5500rpm, really close to how you'd drive a stock 4.6. My motor pulls really well to 5500-5700 but since the peak tq is 3000-4400 I want to make sure when I shift I land somewhere in that range.
Lot of reports of overheating from the lightning community from .030 over. They're also typically running high boost and don't have any cooling mods done. I like to keep that last .010 in reserve for a street car so you can rebuild it again down the road and have room for a re-bore if needed. If you start out at .030 over you've kinda gone as big as you should and if you have to do it again you have to find a new block of iron.
don't get me started.
Now then: Youtube videos. I have an account now, and I've posted some vids. You've seen pretty much all of them but enjoy anyway. More coming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLP-nUc4ssU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXmgQc24IpU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb7ZyP_X4KQ
Red,
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
Now then: Youtube videos. I have an account now, and I've posted some vids. You've seen pretty much all of them but enjoy anyway. More coming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLP-nUc4ssU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXmgQc24IpU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb7ZyP_X4KQ