Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine.
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Correct me if im wrong red or someone...but i beleive over PI its 50HP 100FT LB so going NPI to PI 5.4 maybe 65-75HP 135-150FT LB? i could be way off and probly am ;>
Over my stock NPI engine? Id like to see some total hp and torque numbers. Also possibly the difference between using the hardballer 5.4 intake or the adapter plates for the 4.6? Is the 5.4 intake worth the $700?
This has been said over and over again... but I will repeat it once again. Your MAF is NOT matched to the injectors, or vice-versa. They are totally separate inputs to the tune. When you go with a larger injector, you need to input the injector flowrate, and pulsewidth. That will get you most of the way there with a stock MAF. Upgrading the MAF will require you to input the correct transfer function for that MAF. Just because the Lightning used that particular MAF with 42# injectors does not mean you can slap those same 2 parts on your Mustang on a stock tune and expect it to run correctly. The tune needs to be altered to work with whatever injectors and MAF you choose to run. BTW, on a N/A setup, there is no reason to upgrade your MAF, the stocker is good to ~450 rwhp.
This I know. This MAF was cal'd to the 24's in the tune I have on the 4 bank. I was just using trial and error on matchups on the new setup.
And whether or not it is needed, I have an intense increase in power when adding the 90mm MAF to the car when it had the 4.6. I can honestly say that when I plugged the 90mm maf cald to the 24 lb injectors, I felt the biggest increase in power than I have ever felt with any bolt ons for a mod motor minus power adders.
either way, I am working on a mail order tune on the xcal3 to get me going with the current setup.
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
Over my stock NPI engine? Id like to see some total hp and torque numbers. Also possibly the difference between using the hardballer 5.4 intake or the adapter plates for the 4.6? Is the 5.4 intake worth the $700?
yes the hardballer 5.4 intake is definately worth the money. I am using adapter plates now and i really dont like them. It's been said before that they are basically a band-aid on a broken bone.
__________________
Just a 19yr old with a automotive passion.
This has been said over and over again... but I will repeat it once again. Your MAF is NOT matched to the injectors, or vice-versa. They are totally separate inputs to the tune. When you go with a larger injector, you need to input the injector flowrate, and pulsewidth. That will get you most of the way there with a stock MAF. Upgrading the MAF will require you to input the correct transfer function for that MAF. Just because the Lightning used that particular MAF with 42# injectors does not mean you can slap those same 2 parts on your Mustang on a stock tune and expect it to run correctly. The tune needs to be altered to work with whatever injectors and MAF you choose to run. BTW, on a N/A setup, there is no reason to upgrade your MAF, the stocker is good to ~450 rwhp.
I never said matched to the injectors, I said calibration. He had a stock tune and did not have a calibration for the maf and injectors that were in it.
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
ouch, 4.30's. gonna be a quick 1/8 mile on the slicks though
I really don't DD mine, so I could care less about gas milage. My DD is a 1987 Golf. Only time I really drive my car is during cruises, or when the weather is sunny out.
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
Last edited by 97gtstang; 04-16-2009 at 07:18 PM..
hey guys with the hps intake. what fuel systems are yall using, rail wise, stockers or aftermarket? if aftermarket, how did yall plum in the new rails?
__________________
Just a 19yr old with a automotive passion.
i dont know HP/TQ from HPS and plates but you will get more from the HPS since its made for the 5.4 swap ;> flows better air and you will have more up in the top end where the plates/intake will fall short due to less air flow available. 200-300 dollars more for a better system that will keep your injector spray pattern better and flow more. im going plates and PI intake cause i got both for a total of 280$ to my doorstep ;>
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
Pretty much the same numbers I will be pushing....
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
sorry for ramblin but any guestimations on all 3 would be nice ;> got the block and crank at machine shop getting all cleaned up and wondering if the XE270s are really gona do much for me untill i have the money to go into the bottom end forging and possibly boost in a year or 2
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
That is exactly what I built. Here is what I made on the dyno with the PI intake, adapter plates, stock TB, elbow, 19# injectors...
I now have the HPS Hardball'r, TF Elbow, 75mm TB, and BBK CAI all with 24# injectors all with a re-tune. I plan to visit the dyno again soon to get the after numbers.
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2000 Mustang GT - 5.4L Power
Comp XE270's, HPS Intake, TFS Elbow, 75mm TB
New Dyno #'s coming soon...
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
1 year ago i prob. would have bought it, but birdman didnt have any to sell (that i knew of) if you go find some MM&FF articles they tested this intake in comparison to the Sullivan and one or two others and i believe this one showed the best torque gains but still not as good as the Navigator intake. PM me if you want and i can send you some dynographs for the 4V intakes and maybe some other info...
Actually i just looked again, and their all really close to having the same curve... it looked like the Sullivan and maybe some others outperformed at high rpm power... so it seems like the only benefit to using that would be keeping the stock hood... and let me tell you, that would be a real nice benefit!
What do you guys know about the professional products adapter plates? Good? Bad? Do they fit nice? Anyone had any major problems?
THEY ARE THE SUCK! I pulled mine about 4 times before I got leaks to stop, and had to customize the gaskets and sealing surfaces. but its one of your only choices unless you go with the HPS. Just talked to them, they have 3 on the shelf.
The plates are really a last resort, if you can at all pull the money for the intake, do it, much less of a pain in the ass.
The main things you'll have to do with it are getting a heater hose fitting (I used a 1/2npt to 3/4 barb) and the stock fuel rail isnt wide enough. (I ghetto'd it up with some fuel injection hose and clamps). I think mine was also missing two bolt holes, one for the TB and one for the throttle cable bracket, but I didnt really consider that a big deal.
__________________
Mechanism, I restore thy spirit. Let the God-Machine breathe half-life unto thy veins and render thee functional.
either way, I am working on a mail order tune on the xcal3 to get me going with the current setup.
Is there anything in the tune I should bring to their attention ahead of time that you guys have had experience with? and are there any settings you may reccomend that they may not set during this?
they need to pay attention engine displacement scalar. More than once someone has missed that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nater
Ok, here is what my setup is going to be as soon as I get the headgaskets and headbolts, along with the adapter plates from Jason.
Non-PI 5.4L block
PI heads
PI intake
75mm Throttlebody
80mm MAC CAI
Modular Powerhouse Custom Cams (Similar to VT stage IIs)
Catless H-pipe
Pypes Violator catback
4.30s
31 spline Moser axles
will be launching on Hoosier slicks.
that's close to what I have. You'll be looking at 250-270rwhp and a crapload more tq... probably 330ish. The gears are too much IMO. I think you'll have to shift too often. If you're into 1/8th mile it should be fine but the RPM isn't there for that on a 1/4 mile. You'll be bouncing off the rev limiter through the beams. You'll NEED slicks and well heated slicks at that to get it to hook but man once it does with your setup it'll probably yank the front wheels off the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllorNothing
Hey guys, found this kit off another forum. I was wondering what your opinion on it is. Is it worth the price for what you get? Also, it would be nice to get the 5.4L 32v under the stock hood
Good kit but he wants ALL the money for them. He went there for profit and hasn't had near as much luck getting converts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondfreak13
So how safe can you bore a 5.4? I have seen them bored out .030 before.
go .020 over for a street or street/track car, .030 over for a race only car. If you want more, have the block sleeved and you can get up to like 3.7" which is .150ish over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97gtstang
Hey red or someone else...going to have 5.4 NPI bottom end with PI - Heads/Intake/XE270wbeehive springs for cams/ 24lb Injects 80mm mark viii MAF CAI stock exhaust with no muffs/kittens no juice/no boost
I just wanna have a rough IDEA i have 97 Stang GT 4.6 with just CAI/Exhaust what is the 5.4 NPI bottom with PI top maybe PI cams gona have for power vs xe270 cams power. pretty much what is stock on the 4.6L whats the 5.4L NPI block with PI top end gona have and then again with the same 5.4L only XE270s maybe gona have for power.
got 2200 roughly to spend and with a full rering im looking at 1750$ for that with using summits hard rod bearings 2150 total after a tune shop said he'd sell me chip and tune the car for 400 no matter if it takes 1 hr or 1 week lol.
They are from here in south dakota and i beleive they own one of the fastass 5.4L 4v Fox's running 8 seconds twin turbo. so ied say they know what they are doin i hope ;> "Excessive Auto Sports" we also have South Side Performance here only 2 dynos within 100 miles both 30m away
the cams are worth a pretty solid 20hp depending on the rest of the combo. You need better heads to really let the cams work. Why do a re-ring? Does it need it? I'd look at a different cam if you haven't committed to the 270's yet. Something with HiTech in the brand maybe. Otherwise looks like you're about to have a pretty seriously fun car. Plan on it costing a bit more than you budgeted. It always does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyMD
hey guys with the hps intake. what fuel systems are yall using, rail wise, stockers or aftermarket? if aftermarket, how did yall plum in the new rails?
Custom. If you want me to build you one for cheap or show the parts so you can build one I can. Rails are about 80 bucks or so for base models up to 350 for Aeromotive pimp-ass rails. Add 100 bucks for fittings and 20-30 bucks for braided hoses. You'll have about a 20 minute install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JScottGT
That is exactly what I built. Here is what I made on the dyno with the PI intake, adapter plates, stock TB, elbow, 19# injectors...
I now have the HPS Hardball'r, TF Elbow, 75mm TB, and BBK CAI all with 24# injectors all with a re-tune. I plan to visit the dyno again soon to get the after numbers.
that's a very typical output for the build. All we need is better flowing heads (cough... TFS) for some serious numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagslayer2
What do you guys know about the professional products adapter plates? Good? Bad? Do they fit nice? Anyone had any major problems?
I had really good luck with them. I helped develop them. There's always going to be a little fitting fun but it's doable. Watch your gasket alignment.
BTW, plates suck ass anyway. Get the intake. It's worth probably 20hp peak over a PI intake and plates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srwhouston
THEY ARE THE SUCK! I pulled mine about 4 times before I got leaks to stop, and had to customize the gaskets and sealing surfaces. but its one of your only choices unless you go with the HPS. Just talked to them, they have 3 on the shelf.
They actually pretty good stuff. Even my reichards were like that with the gasket sealing. Gasket alignment is critical and a BITCH with plates. The intake install on the other hand was stupid fast and easy.
__________________
Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
__________________
Steven Schildt
My Swap 3.8L v6 to 4.6L SOHC V8 - (DEAD) 5.4L SOHC v8 Bored .030 Over - Running
What do you think optimum shift point would be Red?
Well since it leans over a bit at about 5000rpm, I'd shift pretty near there... probably 5500rpm, really close to how you'd drive a stock 4.6. My motor pulls really well to 5500-5700 but since the peak tq is 3000-4400 I want to make sure when I shift I land somewhere in that range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_s86
Red,
Why would you say .030 over is "race only"? Im just curious because I had to have mine bored .030 over to remove all the rust within the cylinder walls. Im sure your just generally speaking as its probably not needed, but I am just curious is all.
Oh and im running the PP adapter plates, and have not had one problem what so ever with them. They fit up fine and have yet to leak. You cannot be the price and the quality is very decent. A little cleaning up with the dremmel makes them even nicer.
Lot of reports of overheating from the lightning community from .030 over. They're also typically running high boost and don't have any cooling mods done. I like to keep that last .010 in reserve for a street car so you can rebuild it again down the road and have room for a re-bore if needed. If you start out at .030 over you've kinda gone as big as you should and if you have to do it again you have to find a new block of iron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myillwillinc
also there is the MMR 5.8 mod block for ballers.... $2800 for the bare block...... my next swap will be that block with tfs heads.........
don't get me started.
Now then: Youtube videos. I have an account now, and I've posted some vids. You've seen pretty much all of them but enjoy anyway. More coming:
5.4L SOHC v8 Bored .030 Over - Running
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