Nitrous 101 - Mustang Boards


Power Adders Technical discussions for forced induction with nitrous and blowers.

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Old 09-21-2004, 06:28 PM
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Default Nitrous 101

I thought I would share a little wisdom with this biggest bang for the buck mod.

There is no question that NO2 is by far the best way to add power to your car as cheaply as possibly. Most mods cost about $20 - $40 per hp. Think about it. This rate holds true almost everytime and is true for even the biggest mods such as blowers. NO2, on the other hand, can offer you 100+ hp and loads of trq for as little at $400.

Why is NO2 good? It does two things: 1 - It decreases the temp of the incomming air; 2 - It forces oxygen into the motor which allows for more fuel and thus more power. NO2 is like a chemical version of a turbo.

Why the bad rap? There are loads of horror stories out there of blown motors. Most of the time these are the result of people not knowing what they are doing and bad applications. Quite frankly, anytime you open a motor you run additional risks. A late model mustang a few weeks ago blew an engine right after a cam swap at Numedia Raceway. BAM!

Nitrous can be VERY safe if done right!!!

What are the downsides?
1 - Nitrous is cheap to install, but expensive to use. At $30 - $40 a bottle, it certainly adds up quickly if you use it a lot.
2 - Risk of severe motor troubles such as blown intake or burnt pistons (if not done properly)
3 - Nitrous is not as streetable as a blower as the boost runs out when the bottle gets empty (as well as for other reasons)

What are the bennefits?
1 - Cheap to install!
2 - Easy to remove and no one has to know it was ever there!
3 - Does not wear on motor when not in use. Blowers run all the time.
4 - Ideal for people that want a fast car, but not all the time such as when the wife is driving or the kids (can take out the bottle and disable)

There are two types of nitrous systems dry and wet.

Dry Systems: Dry systems spray nitrous in the intake and rely on the existing fuel system to add the proper amount of fuel.

Pros: Less moving parts with dry systems. Cheaper to buy and easier to install ($500+ for a good system). Less to go wrong. Can be very safe. Better for a beginner.

Cons: Considered more conservative than wet...not as much hp. If not enough fuel is added, you will go lean and burn up the motor.

Wet Systems: Wet systems add fuel separately and don't rely on th existing fuel system.

Pros: More Power! Can be very safe.

Cons: Many parts. Risk of blown intake by pooling of fuel in intake. More expensive to buy and install ($1300 for a good system).

So how do they work and what do you need?

For a Wet System, you need the following to truly have a great setup:
1 - Bottle Warmer: Ensures that the bottle pressure is ALWAYS constant. This will mean that you will have the same shot of nitrous each time and will ensure proper a/f.

2 - Purge Valve: Allows the user to rid the system of any air before using. This ensures proper a/f at initial spray.

3 - WOT Switch: This makes sure that the nitrous does not activate until the throttle is wide open. It generally gets signal from the TPS.

4 - Window Switch: This only allows the nitrous to spray between a particluar rpm range. This prevents spray at too low of rpms and if the rev limiter is ever hit which is an easy thing to do especially with 4.10's. If the fuel/nitrous sprays when the rev limiter is hit....BANG!

5 - Guages: Fuel Pressure and Nitrous Bottle Pressure are very useful.

Dry Systems all work a little differently from one system to another. But, they generally share one thing in common: They have a mechanism for pulsating the existing fuel injectors to add fuel. For example, The Zex system automatically controls bottle pressure so that it knows exactly how much nitrous is being added and then adds fuel accordingly.

The most interesting in the Venom-1000 (This is the one that I have). This system has a computer that monitors your a/f constantly and "drives" the fuel curve by adding fuel. It does not matter what your bottle pressure is or what size nozzle you use, it pulses the fuel injectors so that the correct amount of fuel is being added based on a/f. Sure, if you have a bottle warmer, you will spray more and the computer will then add more fuel as it always monitors the a/f. If the system goes too lean and the fuel can't keep up, it shuts down the nitrous.

Most dry system come with different sized nozzles that the user can add. They are generally from 25 - 150 shot which roughly equals a little less then that in hp.

How much nitrous can you add? As much as your fuel system will support. The general consensus is that the stock fuel systems on a GT (4.6) can support between a 100 - 125 shot. Bigger than that, and you need larger injectors and fuel pump.

I know I left some things out, but I thought this might be helpful for someone looking into nitrous.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2004, 06:33 PM
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Great tech, you included about everything that is important. Only thing I would add would be to get your setup tuned. Dont know if you put it in there or not, but I cant stress that enough. As you said, the main reason nitrous kills so many engines, is because people dont set it up right and lean it out. Great tech thread, keep em coming. And I want some dyno graphs of that monsterous torque curve youre going to have.
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:42 PM
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Matt, right on! Dyno tune is critical as well as retarding timing and coolder plugs. I really did not get into those areas in the post.

Timing should be retarded 1 - 2 degrees per 50 shot. And plugs should be one stage colder per 50 shot. An interesting thing, though, is the the dry systems seem to recomend stock timing (no advance) and stock plugs for less than a 100 shot. I think this is because you don't get as much boost with them as you do wet and they want to keep the applications simple.

No matter what, pull and read the plugs! Plugs should be gray to white. NOT white. I personally think that on a conservative setup (less than 100 shot) reading your plugs is fine if you can't get a dyno tune. You should read them after each shot at first starting with the smallest nozzle and working up to make sure you are good.

The Venom kits are the only ones on the market that are considered "self tuning". It is good to verify this setup on a dyno to read a/f but a tune does no good as the Venom computer takes control of the fuel injecotors anyway.
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Old 09-24-2004, 09:00 AM
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I run an edelbrock dry nitrous kit on my car...and seems to hit just as hard as the wet kits. ......and just to clarify its not that one system is more safe than the other one..it all depends on your set up! If you are running all the safety hardware..the most important being a window switch you'll be okay on either system! And about the blown intakes..it just the depends on the shot! If you get too greedy and lets say you run a 150 shot..you can kiss you motor good bye in a few passes....run you a small shot like 75-100 with all the safety hardware...and you'll be fine! ..been running a 80 shot on my stang for 7 mths and no problems yet...I do need to get it tune though
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Old 09-24-2004, 07:08 PM
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Wet kits generally put down more actual power than dry kits per rated shot. In fact, many of the wet kits will meet or exceed 100 rwhp with a 100 shot. This one of the reasons why the majority or "serious" applications use wet.

I agree in part with your statement about needing all the safety equipment. BUT, every system has it's risks and inherant problems. One of the setbacks with dry systems is that it is impossible to know what is happening at each injector. You might have an good overall a/f, but be running very lean in one cyclinder, for example.

Also, to me knowledge, blown intakes are a problem with wet systems and not dry systems. This happens from the pooling of fuel caused when the ignition shuts down and then restarts (hitting rev limieter for example w/o a window swicth or with a window switch that failed). I can't see how this would ever happen with a dry shot.

I certainly agree that as you increase shot, the risk of failure increases. An 80 shot I believe is a good safe place to operate.

Don't forget that despite all the safety devices, they also can fail. A big downside of dry systems is what happens when the solenoid fails to close when you are done spraying. Solenoids do stick. If this ocurrs, the motor is most likely toast.
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Old 09-25-2004, 12:27 AM
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any specific kits recomended?
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2004, 03:57 AM
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For wt applications, the best out there by far is the NX EFI. You can buy all you need right here at MT! I believe they have a lifetime warrenty on all parts.

For dry kits, there really is not one that is a big standout. But, I do like the ZEX kits and the Venom kits the best. I just bought a Venom and have no personal experience with either but researched a ton.
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2004, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 STANG
any specific kits recomended?
Edelbrock dry nitrous kit! ..comes with evething you need...all safety equipment!
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2004, 02:24 PM
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Idid not mention edlebrock and I have no experience with it and have not read much about it.

Please fill us in on how it works.
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2004, 06:21 PM
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Great tech article!
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2004, 04:44 AM
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I have heard GREAT things about the Edelbrock kit as well. The one kit that Ive heard some bad stuff about is NOS. Ive read about some of their solenoids puking out pretty early. If I were going to buy it, itd be a NX wet kit.
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2004, 06:03 AM
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just so you know there are more nitrous companys out there besides NOS and NX.

for some reason everyone thinks there are only 2 dont know why. I had a Nitrous works kit on my f150 jetted for 150hp. got the kit from summit for $448 and it was a wet kit it was great.

Also you dont need to get a dyno tune ot run juice, yes you be safer i soppose but most kits are jetted so rich its really not a problem.

My f150 with all the bolts ons you can get and 150 shot ran wicked rich, pegging the guage at 10.2/1 air fuel ratio i backed off some fuel and got an extra 10hp jus from leanning it up. but i dont recomend it to people who dont under stand how nitrous works.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2004, 06:10 PM
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Hey Spike, when I put this thread togther, I wanted to really just put out the basics of nitrous and ythen start a discourse. So I only really discussed the more popular kits. My kit is neither NOS or NX for example.

There is only one nitrous setup that I know of where a tune is pretty pointless: Venom-100. That is because the Venom computer takes over control of the injectors, so it does not matter much what the ECU is trying to do with the exception of timing.

However, for all other kits a tune becomes more and more important as you go to a bigger shot especially if it requires fuel system and MAF upgrades. Tuning for nitrous can provide the following:

1 - Raising rev limiter
2 - Adding a two-stage rev-limiter for launching
3 - Verifying a/f and correcting

Of course the first two can be accomplished with with a mailorder chip for that matter.
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:35 PM
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what kit do you use?
and what shot do you use.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2004, 09:06 PM
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Spike:

I am currently in the process of installing a Venom-100. As of today, I have it about 50% done. I have been really slow and **** as I want it "just right". Activation switch, nitrous line, solenoid, nozzle, and computer are all installed. I have the bottle and the electrical hookups to do and then I am done.

The Venom systems are pretty unique in their function. You won't hear much about them from Mustang users. I don't have plans to use this setup much...just for the track a few times per year.

I plan on a 100 shot max, but may stick with a 50 or 75. I have a vert and have no intentions of adding a rollcage, so I will stick with the shot that will keep me in the 13's. I figure I get one "pass" in the 12's then I will have to slow it down.
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Old 10-11-2004, 06:19 AM
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Those kits are pretty damn expensive, why did you go that route?
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Old 10-11-2004, 08:18 AM
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Great Question! Biggest complaint about them.

1 - Found a place that sells them for $560 shipped.
2 - I like the fact that the system reies on less moving parts than some of the other options.
3 - I like the overall concept of the system. I like the logic of how it works.
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Old 10-11-2004, 08:21 AM
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you wanna tell me about this place for 560 shipped? i never really looked at there kit it looks alot like the zex setup to me.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2004, 09:46 AM
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Here is a link about it:

http://www.venom-performance.com/nf/...ail.htm#avail3

You can even read the manual online.

The concept of operation is as follows:

1 - When the system is energized, it will spray only at WOT.
2 - When it sprays, the VCN-1000 computer constantly monitors your a/f.
3 - The computer adds fuel by pulsing each injector to drive the a/f intot he correct range. All of this happens instantaneously.
4 - If the a/f stays too lean for any length of time, the nitrous gets shutdown and can not be re-energized until the car is re-started and the system we booted.

No matter what your bottle pressure, the system only adds the amount of fuel that is needed based on a/f. Kit comes with four different nozzles which are about a 25, 50,75, and 100 shot.

I bought it from Boro Performance. Their phone number is 1-888-974-2133. It is pretty easy to install and you get practically everything you need. I am still orking on getting the bottle installed the way I wat it. The hardest part is laying it allout and trying to do it neatly.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2005, 06:36 PM
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Default venom kit

great write up. i was thinking of doing n20 and you helped me make my decison. I went to the link and i dont see a kit for 02 mustang do they make one. also how long will a motor take n20 abuse.
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Old 05-21-2005, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundergod
great write up. i was thinking of doing n20 and you helped me make my decison. I went to the link and i dont see a kit for 02 mustang do they make one. also how long will a motor take n20 abuse.
I am sure that have one for an '02...not sure why one is not listed on the site.

Glad you liked the information.

A motor will not last long at all with N20 abuse. Spraying while at idle, or doing other stupid things will toast a motor quickly. However, using a reputable nitrous kit properly installed and using the proper timing and plugs AND not getting carried away with the amount of spray, the motor will last nearly forever.

Sure, any power adder is gonna take some life out of the motor. This might be a problem if these engines were designed to only go 100k miles, however, these motors are lasting for hundred of thousand miles. Wiht regular nitrous use, you may need to rebuild sooner, but in the end, most of us will get rid of the car well before putting 150k+ on the block.
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:57 PM
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Default Venom-1000 (100 Shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!
Matt, right on! Dyno tune is critical as well as retarding timing and coolder plugs. I really did not get into those areas in the post.

Timing should be retarded 1 - 2 degrees per 50 shot. And plugs should be one stage colder per 50 shot. An interesting thing, though, is the the dry systems seem to recomend stock timing (no advance) and stock plugs for less than a 100 shot. I think this is because you don't get as much boost with them as you do wet and they want to keep the applications simple.

No matter what, pull and read the plugs! Plugs should be gray to white. NOT white. I personally think that on a conservative setup (less than 100 shot) reading your plugs is fine if you can't get a dyno tune. You should read them after each shot at first starting with the smallest nozzle and working up to make sure you are good.

The Venom kits are the only ones on the market that are considered "self tuning". It is good to verify this setup on a dyno to read a/f but a tune does no good as the Venom computer takes control of the fuel injecotors anyway.

I guess this the biggest shot with this Venom-1000 100 Shot? Can you get a 125 shot from them? Or can this system make more HP than 100?
Bruce
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2005, 05:31 PM
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Venom can make custom nozzles of about any size.
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Old 10-19-2005, 02:44 PM
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Default Best Nitrous Setup For Mustang GT

I bought a brand new Zex Wet kit off of ebay for 525.00 shipped. I have been running the 75 shot for about 6 months now. My mustang loves it. I use it all the time and have never had any problems. I raced it at Atlanta Dragway a couple of weeks ago, and pulled a 13.2 at 106mph. I just graduated from Universal Technical Institute in orlando Fl, They taught us everything you need to know about how to use it properly. I think it is the best kit on the market today. I highly recommend it.
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!
Venom can make custom nozzles of about any size.
Hi.. A few questions on this kit.. I just bought this kit and now waiting for it to arrive. From what i've read the Venom is a very good dry kit so i'm excited about the purchase.

Now, the instruction manual that I downloaded doesn't have any pictures so i'm wondering if you or anyone else might have some install pictures? I do much better with pictures than with text.

For instance, where did you put the computer & soleniods. Also tapping into the TPS wiring, how difficult was that? I have a ohm meter around here somewhere and from the sounds of things i'm going to need it.

Also, from reading the instructions, is it true that the blue "ready" light flashes whenever the car ignition is on? That could get kinda annoying, if so i'm going to need to put this somewhere I can't see it all the time or put a cover on it or something.. Just wanted to verify that.

Any info people can provide would be nice..

Thanks,
Terry
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:27 AM
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Terry:

yesw, the light flashes all the time! I have a separate power switch for mine so I generally have it turned off when not using. That way no lights. In the meantime, I would just suggest pulling the fuse when not using. That will do the same thing.

I have a video of my entire setup. But, the file is too large to email. Someone was hosting it for this site, but it looks like it is gone. If we can get someone to host it, you can see it.
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2005, 09:42 AM
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I would love to see that video.. Would you mind FTPing the file to me? I can PM you the info.
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2006, 08:27 PM
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hey guys im looking into to doing nos 2 - is this stuff safe for a stock block? - i was thinking i would go ahead and get the direct port system - and run a 100 shot - then after i forge turn it up to a 300 shot or so... any thoughts? - woudl direct port be safer?
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2006, 09:04 PM
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Sure, nitrous can be safe if you are smart, don't get carried away and have all the safety devices in place. 300 hp? I am not the right person to ask, but I can tell you, to get the motor and tranny to handle that much juice would require a big investment.

I really do not think a direct port system is worth the cost on a near-stock application with shots less then a 100.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:40 AM
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Are u guys running on stock internals is my big question, and will a 75-100 hurt my car. It is bone stock internally.
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