Last I checked, you couldn't have two children in war at the same time..had that go on after WW2.. maybe I'm wrong. Could be the fact that his kid or kids are pretty screwed up from war and believe like my cousin and will finish this fight..or he could be spoon feeding them a bunch of **** like many parents do, its how kids get their views most of the time. Theres too many things to list. Wesley Clark may be an ***, but hopefully he reminded people, just because you've fought a war, doesn't mean you know how to run a country. I can respect McCains service, as I can any other retired/honorably discharged soldier..doesn't mean I gotta like them or trust them.

Union partnership? We partner with the contractors, and in my local, we haven't lost a contractor because we've done him wrong, or run him out of business because we charge too much, if anything, we've made them a shitload of money and given their customers exceptional work going beyond what we have had to to ensure that they can continue to function efficiently. And its been that way for 105 years now. If they didn't like what we did, they could easily pull out and leave. Contract negotiations happen quite often.

 

There is a reason why our Founding Fathers made sure that our Commander in Chief was a Civilian. However, many presidents have been elected because of their military experience. What we need is leadership. Often times, leadership is taught, honed, and learned in the military, but there are other places to master this skill as well...or at least prove one has it.

The major logical fault with Clarke's comment is that while true, does not mean that not having military experience makes you a better leader either.

You keep confusing "partnership" with "contractual" relationships. The two are different and are not used the same in todays business world. For example, in a partnership, the contract might state things like being paid extra for completing the job early or on time and to certain quality standards, and loose money for run-overs or for having quality issues. You might also get paid based on the success of the project. In a partnership, compensation is much less based on hours worked. In some cases workers get paid based on the profitability of a project and ownership is MUCH less based on a trade, but rather on the end state. Teamwork and end-state is much more important in a partnership relationship. Worker's in a partnership, are much more involved in the planning stages and sink or swim with the end customer.

Even with today's orgainized labor (there have been changes), most don't come close to partnership arrangements. This does not mean that non-union workers do either. Most managers today on both sides of the fences lack the creativity and the true understandign of how these relationships are supposed to work or could work is applied correctly. Unions, however, by nature "limit" relationships.

 

then again, they have more money

 

Yep, the wife and I are struggling big time. Almost two years ago we purchased a brand new two bedroom/two bath/two car garage townhome for $400k. We pretty much purchased our home right at the peek of the housing market. The good thing is we were able to get a great first time homebuyer loan with a good fixed rate throughout the loan. Pulte Homes is now selling my exact home for $249k. YIKES!

The problems began when the market crashed and my wife's entire department at Wachovia was laid off. At the time our combined income was around $150k, however when she lost her job, she had to take another job that lowered her income by 50%. We've been able to hold on since October by cutting back, and savings, but it's all dried up now. I've sent a letter of financial hardship to Bank of America to let them know we will not be able to make our July payment. Not sure what's giong to happen, but we are hoping for a short sale or deed in lue so it won't hurt my credit too bad. Whatever happens probably won't be good.

On another front, our house is about 23 mile from my job, and 40 miles from my wifes job. She has a jeep cherokee and litterally spends 20% of her take home income on gas to and from work. That doesn't include any other driving. I got rid of my mach and purchased a Pontiac G6 that gets 30mpg. She drives my car and I drive the jeep since I go a shorter distance.


That's my boooohooooo story.

 

Again, God help us all if Obama gets elected into office.

Personally I believe this was the weakest class of presidential hopefuls I've ever seen. None of them with the exception of Fred Thompson have/had what it would take to be the president of this country.

Anyone who honestly thinks that raising income taxes even more is a good idea is an enormous moron **cough cough SntBako, cough cough**... The best thing this country could possibly do would be to eliminate income tax (which is illegal anyway) and increase sales tax. That way EVERYONE including illegals pay taxes no matter what.

Get rid of welfare, except to those who NEED it, like my brother with CP who is confined to a wheelchair, and only has use of one hand, but STILL WORKS at Goodwill. I'm sick of seeing all of these idiots who don't want to work get on welfare, food stamps, etc.. and take MY MONEY. Obama wants to INCREASE welfare! Unbelievable!

I honestly am holding out hope that this Country will wake up and see through all of this political garbage and choose the lesser of the two evils. At this point it is our only choice short of another Civil War.

If you honestly believe that Obama, the man that refused to be sworn into office on the Bible, refuses to say the pledge of allegiance and goes against everything that this country stands for deserves to be the president you should seriously be shot in the head. He is a socialistic Muslim.

Take it or leave it, but he and his pig racist wife would be the END of this country and I honestly believe that if he were to be elected he would be assassinated while giving his acceptance speech.


Please wake up and smell the roses people...

 

Good luck man. Everything will work out.

 

Whoevers in office will be better than the one we have now.

I'm not going to get into it, but Obama is the better choice.

As for his religion, maybe you should take this into account. As for this is what "America Stands For"

 

So you honestly think that a radical Muslim should be allowed to be the leader of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Look at this mans pastors, can you imagine how screwed up he and his wife are???

There are a lot of dumb people in this world... If you truly believe that Obama is the best choice we might as well call out Osama and ask him to come lead us. Unbelievable.

 

 

If you think your opinion is the right one then go for it. Have fun with it. Don't question my intelligence or the majority of America.

If i'm not mistaken, Obama is a Christian. Obama belong’s to the Trinity United Church of Christ. At least thats what he says. Me personally, i don't think that matters.



Is that why you think hes a Muslim? You sound like Stephen Colbert.

 

You're going to cry about raising taxes? WE'RE IN A DEFICIT THAT EVEN MY GRAND KIDS ARE GOING TO SEE BUT RAISING INCOME TAXES IS BAD? lmao. Get your head out of the toilet bud, and if you're bitching that income taxes are illegal, get you and your "NWO" buddies together and revolt..its been going like that for quite some time.

Anyway you look at it taxes will be raised to cover a deficit that was put into place in less then 10 years but tops any deficit we've ever had. And you want a second nutjob in there to finish out George Bush's plans by sitting in Iraq, you sir, are an idiot.

Unpatriotic? Apparently hes been patriotic enough to get himself this far, and while I do not agree with everything he's got to say, I'll go with most, because HE is the lesser of two evils.

Welfare is a bunch of **** don't get me wrong but before you go and start abolishing bullshit start fixing things first. When it takes a woman I know with breast cancer 3 ****** years to get her Social Security and shes living in a homeless shelter just after she gets operated on because she's got no form of income anymore.

Maybe its not getting rid of things maybe its fixing what we have. While we sit and **** our money away trying to catch a bunch of ***** that just blow themselves up on us it wont happen.

 

I've never heard of a Christian that would take the oath of office on the Koran... He refused to take the oath on the bible. A bible refusing Christian hmm.. You guys keep lieing to yourselves, while you're at it dig your own graves. His wife hates America, hates whites, do you really think that they wouldn't share the same beliefs?

The man is so unpatriotic that he won't even show our nations flag or our pledge enough respect to take his *** off of the stage, instead he has to stand there showing his disrespect to the world. AND YOU WANT THIS MAN TO BE YOUR PRESIDENT!>!>?!?! You're both completely insane. Mark my words, if he is elected (which I HIGHLY doubt) he will be killed shortly thereafter, either that or they will have to put him in a pope mobile for protection.

SntBako: You obviously aren't, never have, and never will be self-employed. We get royally f*cked in taxes as it is. Another hike in taxes will put most of us under and we will lose everything. So take your garbage talk elsewhere, because you obviously know nothing of what you speak.

Here's an idea, anyone voting for Osama should go live in Iraq. Obama will meet with their leaders and you can form your own communist nation under islamic rule.

 

Not struggling, yet anyway.


I am the major income to the family, my wife does not make enough to afford daycare, so she works part time and we work opposite schedules. But with that part time work comes small time pay, i pay the mortgage, insurance, car payemtns, cellphones, water, trash, electrical, cable, etc. After that money si a bit tight.

the gas prices havent hurt us too bad. My honda pumps out 40mpg, my wifes saturn gets nearly 30 on the highway.

ive noticed the pains of gas prices in other ways though. Our groceries expences went from roughly 120 a week to 160 a week. thats 160 a month, and on top of all the other bills that really adds up.

so as of now, things are tight, but we are not going backwards we are still going forwards. It would be a lot easier if i could sell the stang that nobody will buy. lol.


as for unions, im my experience unions do a pretty good job of cr4eating a bunch of lazy bastards who would rather bitch about thier job than actually do it.
that is just my experience though with the telco unions.

As for the election, obama, bush, clinton...... There is absolutly no way we could have a worse president, the meathead currently in charge is about the dumbest sack of **** on earth and honestly doesent give 2 ***** about the common man.

and i dont think hilary, obama, mccain, or any of the other ******* do either.

I dont think an election is in order, i think a complete and total government overhaul is in order. The current political situation is goin g to destroy this country for profit. It doesnet mater who gets elected, the president is never stronger than somone elses greed.

Total government overhaul and reform.

I think about half of congress and half of the senate (on both sides) need to be incarcerated and charged with treason, as well as many political lobbiests and interest groups like the heads of the oil industry and such. I think that any group that ghas ever sponsored a canidates election that expects special treatment should be hung.

i think we need to drill alaska, pull out of iraq, and use the oil in alaska and the rest of america as a gas relief while we cut foriegn aid completly, and take that money and start investing it in nuclear power, and offering HUGE tax rebates to encourage solar roofing shingle technology. Right now it would cost me 40k to get off the electrical grid, tax rebates and incentives will pay about 30k, leaving me with 10k. If we cut foriegn aid, pull out of iraq, the money we could save would be enough to cover that last 25% nmaking it virtually free to be free of electrical requirements, and i think that if our country really pulled its head out of its *** it could be 100% self powered with solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear power. If enough people and businesses replaced thier singles with solar shingles then the city itself becomes a power plant network of free renewable energy. we could probably even do away with nucelar power after a while.

and for all the idiots who say, more nuclear plants means that the terrorists will target those, well, if we aint in thier ******* country they wont care anymore.

But i know that wont happen, not without some serious govermental overhaul, cause as it is now, the stockholders are the ones who truly run the country.

EDIT: i think the worst part is that the oil; industry is about fucked. The days of oil are nearly numbered and it is clear that oil is a finite source, not renewable, and for some reason everyone in charge of this nations seems determined to **** the whole country in efforts to try to save that dying power source rather than to do the only goddamn thing that nmakes sence and that is to find another power source. Sure people in oil will lose jobs. But better the people in the oil industry than the entire ******* country

 

I have no desire to be self employed, if it is that horrible then why the hell are you running your own company? Why are companies still sprouting up all over the place? I know repulicans are all for businesses but the majority doesnt own their own business, we simply work.

And as it is right now, most are on the verge of losing everything it seems like. My "garbage" is facts.

Biggest fact stated: We are in the biggest deficit we have ever seen.
Fact 2: This war IS a losing war. Ever hear "Win all the battles, lose the war" ?
Fact 3: Stocks are dropping significantly
Fact 4: The housing market has reached its bubble again, and its popped.

So, with what you're saying is with another George Bush in office, everything will be ok and all this will be fixed. But then again, all this has happened in the 8 years he has been in office. Do you refuse to look at what is actually going on around you? Or highly ranked military personel coming out and saying "We are no safer now then we were on September 10th 2001"

Your points are pretty invalid. Any route we go taxes are going to be raised, theres no way around it, we have to pull out of a HUGE hole. You will be taxed, I will be taxed, my grandparents (voting for obama, who own apartments as well as a small business, two homes, and my grandfather who still works for a company) will be taxed, EVERYONE will be taxed.

Again, you are apparently blind to the facts. One way or another the percentages are going to go up, significantly, the biggest difference is Obama is outright saying "ya, taxes are going to be higher" instead of creating new ones.

Its been that way for quite some time. Democrats say taxes are going up. Republicans say "we're cuttin taxes" and ..they get raised..or new ones are put in to compensate..

Face it dude, our economy is failing, whatever government we put into office will most likely suck, but for myself, Obamas will suck slightly less.

Some of the socialistic ideas Obama wants are honestly not too bad. Its not going to go to a USSR type of deal, it will never work that way because it'd be shot down very quickly.

 

WOW dude, don't you think some of your comments are just as extreme as the people you are talking about? I've always enjoyed your posts, but I seriously think you have fallen off the deep-end.

How about this, we stick to the original threat about people who are struggling rather than listen to your hatred of Obama. We get it, you hate him....some will agree, some will disagree, but lets move on before this gets ugly.

 

Ill agree with a large portion of what Jack says.. (and ya the telecomm union is a joke)

Drilling alaska really isn't the issue, don't get me wrong, theres a bunch of oil up there, some of it should be tapped, but we've got alot of unused spots over here..

The sad part about solar energy right now is the shingles are expensive as all hell, and the people that know how to install them efficiently is pretty scarce, its not as easy as "well ya just put that ****** up there and yer done"

I know out here in california we're training people (including myself) on how to install them, maintain, and repair if necessary, and learning this **** inside and out.

We've installed on a few buildings.. and in california.. we've got wind going up, quite a bit of it, in unused areas of southern california (desert areas, Jawbone Canyon, parts of California City, Ridgecrest Mojave, Tehachapi) Nuclear energy is kicking back up here...

Hopefully other places will start to follow and do the same as far as finding new ways of creating electricity.

Government overhaul? Hell ya. And I think alot of people holding positions should be thrown into prison for a number of things. Democrat and Republican alike. They are all a bunch of scumbags.

Becoming self sufficient is a huge priority, but it will take a long time to do..

And..I'm done..

WNR: you and I don't see eye to eye on politics but I still like ya man..

 

I don't like either canidates, but someone HAS to be better than Bush. Taxes will go up no matter what and those in California will see the highest taxes. What is everyone's sales tax right now in your area? Right now, it's 8.75% where I live.

 

No idea, but I'm in ..I guess you can call it South Central California, Im Bakersfield (Kern County)

so I'm sure its pretty high..

 

I know when I live in Socal it was 8.25%. I think it should be the same across the state, but it's not. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

 

yeah... that is just something that takes a redirection of government funding and education.

training people to install and maintain this stuff rather than get shot at in iraq.... seems like a solid plan if you ask me. lol

the middle east will forget all about hating america as soon as we pack our **** up and get out of thier country.

i think we have just gone this route too long, it was great while it lasted but all good things come to an end, were just flogging a dead horse for no benefit at this point.

 

No, I just have a huge problem with anyone (Obama) who will openly and repeatedly embarrass this country. To me it is the little things, like not saluting our flag or saying the pledge. It scares me to think that his allegiance is with someone else or some other country. It just flat-out bothers me, and I am surprised that it doesn't seem to bother any of you.

I agree that dubya has failed us all, but honestly at the time I don't think we had any choice.. Who could we choose? Kerry!? -No way.. In Hindsight, maybe it would have been a better choice, but I truly doubt it.

We also have to keep in mind, the "commander" only has so much pull, we can't point the finger at him and only him for hurting our economy or raising oil costs. Look around you, the gas stations are gouging the prices and we all know it. Right across the street, Diesel is $4.79, but less than a block down the road it is $4.55. Tell me how that equates?. We can also look at GW as having one of the fastest rising economies at one point in his tenure, the only problem is that is fell as fast as it grew..

I have no hard feelings here either, Just a difference of opinions and neither of us think we are wrong. Personally, I'm going home to put my McCain sign in my front yard and sticker on my rear windshield.

 

ya know the freaky thing is that sometimes when im talking about the currrent situation with the government, and i mention i think the USA Govt needs an overhaul and a lot of people in charge probably belong in jail, well, 20 years ago i would probably have gotten my *** kicked for saying such a thing, nowadays i think people are getting so dishearted with the feeling that nothing will change and things will just get worse because we are basically locked on a route that will probably be the downfall of this country. It is to the point where there really are a lot of people it seems that dont have any faith that it can be fixed, and if it cant be fixed, it should probably be replaced.

 

There is a standard California state sales tax rate, but local governments have the ability to raise it through the voters....so that's why each County in Cali is different. Tennessee has 9.35% sales tax, but they might not have state income taxes or property taxes so the high sales tax makes up the difference. In Cali we have it all....income taxes, property taxes, sales tax....everytime you wipe your butt tax, I mean we have a tax for everything it seems like.

 

Well, the great thing about our country is we can have conversations like this, so I have no ill feeling towards anyone who has different political views. I just think that there is a lot of bad information going around about Obama....he is not a muslim. When leaders go to different country's sometimes they wear the traditional garb....It seems Obama is the only one that catches a bunch of **** for this. On the other matter. Are you certain that was the plegde and not the national anthem? I'm as patriotic as the next person, but I generally don't place my had over my heart during the national anthem. During the pledge that's a different story.

Let me ask you a question and I want you to please answer it honestly. If his last name was Johnson or some other common name would we even be having this conversation? I personally don't think we would.

If McCain stuck to his guns and remained somewhat independent like he used to be I'd be all for him, but in the last few years he's become a republican puppet.

 

I don't like Obama but I have to call BS on the obama was sworn in under the koran that keeps getting thrown in there. Is a myth that anti democrat party people are passing around and it is false I'm a republican and I plan to vote for McCain but if you think Obama was sworn in under the koran you need to stop listening to all the stuff you read on the internet.

 

I can honestly say that I would vote for who I feel was the best candidate. I don't care if his name is Blambo Banzooble. I just truly feel like Obama has underlying tactics and I don't feel good about him. Something just doesn't|"feel" right about him.

I don't classify myself as a repub. or a dem. I go with my gut and my gut says Obama = bad news. Plus the man only has 2 years in office, I don't see that befitting a President.

 

On a serious note, do you really think when/if Obama gets elected, hes going to go on national television and go "GOTCHA BITCHES! YOU GUYS ARE FUCKED NOW!!!".

 

To me that answer is way more level headed and rational than the junk you were talking about earlier. I'm sure your dad told you the same thing mine did....trust your gut.

 

LMAO @ The sign!!

Have any of you taken the time to read the release of Michelle Obama's Senior thesis? She has a major chip on her shoulder that she still carries to this day. In her mind "whitie" has ruined the country and black supremacy should take its place.. Why can't we all live equally? All of us work hard, and enjoy life.

After you have read hers, go read Mrs. McCain's senior thesis. She expresses love and respect for our country, something that you will find very lacking in Michelle's.

I know that the woman behind the man doesn't make the man different, but in my case, my fiance' and I share very similar views on many levels, this leads me to believe that they would be very much the same, as I would expect from all of you and your significant others.


I do tend to get a little riled up when it comes to political things. Especially when I feel so strongly about things like this. Sorry if I offended any of you, just a very passionate person.

 

Sales tax just went up to 10.25% in Chicago. How ridiculous is that