if the thread mill was spinning backwards and the plane was at a stand still the plane wouldn't move (i am disregardly the small frictional force in the bearings of the wheel because it is incredibly small)

like a skate board on a regular tread mill...

got it?
i hope you do... I can;t think of anyother way to put it

 

Now hold on here. I didn't realize that the engines were on. Greg talking about the skateboard is what messed me up. I thought that the plane was just on the treadmill. If the engines were on then yes the plane would lift off because if would create lift, but if you use the skateboard concept (no source of perpulsion) then no because you have nothing acting upon the airfoils.

 

yes...

the question is worded a little funny... but the key factor is that the wheels have no affect on the planes movement...

 

Well technically, planes aren't pushed through the air, they're pulled. :P

But if it was a jet engine, the air is sucked in from the forward motion and then ignited as thrust out the ***. So jets are kind of a push/pull combination.

kekeke.

 

I must have posted when you guys were typing that up because I didn't think the engines were on when you brought up the skateboard parallel.

 

you could get into it super deep, and say the bearings in the wheels cant handle the friction causing them to come off or burst, and the plane wont take off


somone argued that on the SVTP one

 

i was trying to make a comparison... that... like the wheels on a skateboard, the wheels on a plane spin freely...

 

lmao...

or the tires pop... they explode and send rubber flying into the jet... then the rubber ****s up the engine and it explodes...

not only does the plane not take off... but everyone dies and then the treadmill keeps goin in reverse and send the flaming plane backwards and the plane takes out the radio tower... then that burns the **** down and everyone lives happily ever after

 

I still don't think that the bearings on the wheels would burst. They're rated to handle a **** load of pressure because of the initial landing when the plane hits the ground. That's a **** load more pressure than it just running on the ground. Eventually, yes they would because I'm sure they don't have bearings that last nearly as long as bearings on a vehicle because they are on the ground all that much, but if you were to test this I don't think you would really run it long enough to wear out the bearings.

 

Do I hear movie in the making...?

 

Whatever, planes are still pulled through the air.

 

ok guys ive been busting my ***** on this one all day. lets say the plane is sitting on the treadmill, and the treadmill is turned on. the plane is going to go backwards, cuz its heavy. tires wont spin. i dont know where that was going. but now i got another point. as long as the treadmill is going as fast as the wheels i dont think it will take off. i think it will run out of gas because of all the gas it will have to burn to lift off. or it will run out of treadmill/runway space. case closed again. now dont bring up this, well the plane has infinite fuel, or the runway goes on forever. the speed of the treadmill might be like 50 knots below the enging speed. therefore the plane will only be going 50 knots at full throttle, thats why he will run out of gas. ok my ***** are busted. im done

 

ok...

forget about the wheels... floating plane...

plane is hovering over the treadmill... the tread mill moves the opposite direction as the throttle is increased... will it take off? yes... bugs bunny could be underneith jacking off... doesn't affect the plane...

that being said... all the wheels do is make the plane hover...

get it?

 

well now theres just a fake plane. ill work on another theory tonight. does anyone know the TRUE answer to this. or is it a never ending ball buster

 

dude you are way to focused on the treadmill. it is a trick question, the whole treadmill thing is to distract you. its not a never ending ball buster...take your focus off of the treadmill

 

lol we've been telling you the true answer but you keep saying its wrong...

the plane WILL take off.

 

I still agree with 1 bad S. And your treadmill comparison with roller skates is exactly the same as the comparison with the place. YOU have rockets pushing you forward, and the treadmill going the opposite direction. SO you are at a standstill.

Here is another example, take a car on a dyno. With no straps to hold the car there, if you use the car to turn the wheels the car will move......BUT, if the dyno itself turns at the same rate of speed as the cars wheels, it will sit there not moving. It's the exact same concept.


IF you don't believe me, believe Newton. I would love someone to argue his opinion:

And I quote:

SOOOOO< force pushing the plane is 100knots and treadmills is moving at 100knots Then, ACCELERATION = 0!!!!

Go here to read more.

 

Nevermind, my last statment. I will leave it there because it's a damn good argument. But, the plane will take off! The wheels will just spin twice as fast and have nothing to do with the equation.

Damn it, now I have extra brain cells I have to burn off with alcohol this weekend!!!

Damn you Fonc, you made me think about the subject I hate most! Physics!!!!

 

Read my statment above your post!

 

ok i got a new concept. thought about it last night. say you have a raft in the water. and say you want to go up stream. the water is the treadmill and the raft is the plane. lets put a motor, or even an engine on the back of the raft. the water is running in the opposite direction of the raft, and it increases speed with the motor of the raft. so lets say you put the throttle of the raft at 5mph. then you turn the water stream to 5 mph. the boat will just sit still. it wont go anywhere. so then the boat increases to 10 mph, then the water does. boat still not going anywhere

 

ok, but the main point to this whole question, is that the treadmill keeps speed with the throttle. when the planes on the ground the wheel really isnt "free spinning". the weight of the plane in on them. put the plane on a treadmill and turn it on. the plane will go backwords. if you keep the throttle at 210 knots and the treadmill at 210 knots, the plane is at a standstill. what i really think, is you would have to reach a speed where the weight of the plane is no longer on the wheels, i.e. the force of the treadmill overcomes the weight of the weight of the plane. which brings me back to my point of the plane running out of gas, or it running out of runway space. either way this bird wont fly

 

alright, im going to have to be honest. i first read the question an di thought instantly that the plane would not take off. i had it set in my mind that it would not take off. as i read through the thread i was getting mad at the people who said it would take off and proceeded to call all of the idiots. i read some more threads and then the concept dawned on me. The plane CAN take off. Just like all the people that replied before me said, the wheels are not driving the plane, jet propulsion is. therefore the treadmill has no effect on the forward movement on the plane. So in fact i was the idiot to begin with. but nonetheless the plane CAN take off.

 

lets say you get some skates on and get on a treadmill. and you just get on there and crank it up. the treadmill is going and you are just rolling there. then i apply a little force to you. you will move foward if i did this, but the trick to the question is that the treadmill is connected to the throttle. so once it sees im pushing you, it will add that exact force in the opposite direction. so you would be back to a stand still. now you have to see that

 

maybe thats a bad example, because im standing on the gound, im not part of you and the skates.