getting more power up top

[tigerfan2771]

alright so i have a 2002 v6 mustang with the following mods:
4.10 gears,posi-trac differential, dual exhaust, shorty headers, tuner, and drop in filter.

i will have a precision industries stallion torque converter installed for when i go to the track.

the first three gears are no problem and my car flies through them with the mods i have now. once i install the torque converter, it will lock up all the way to the fourth gear. im hoping for mycar to be able to run in the 14's but to do so, i will have to be around 80mph. my car seems to lose power at around 60mph and im afraid that it will fall flat on its face once it hits fourth gear. is there anything that i can do to make more power in this range? ive heard that if i do 1.8 ratio roller rockers, i can reach higher rpm's safely. is this true? and if so could i extend my shift points using the tuner so that the first three gears last longer?

[WaterDR]

You will need to run more like 95 miles per hour to get into the 14's. Trap speed is a function of hp plain and simple. The higher rpms I don't think will help you that much not on a car like this. You will need to add a power adder or drop the weight of the car by about 500 - 600 lbs. Why don't you add a 75 shot of the sauce and call it a day?

[mustangvsix]

yeah, you can either build the motor, drop weight, or add a power adder. I was 85mph and only ran a 16.5 with a CAI, stock auto, Mac Catback, and my heavy fat ass tires.

[WaterDR]

His 80 miles per hour comments has got to be a typo. There is no car in the world that breaks into the 14's and traps in the 80's. Also, I would never crack open that engine to do something like swap the rockers. Maybe if the car made 800 hp.

Again, slap on some sauce or a blower and call it a day.

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by WaterDR

His 80 miles per hour comments has got to be a typo. There is no car in the world that breaks into the 14's and traps in the 80's. Also, I would never crack open that engine to do something like swap the rockers. Maybe if the car made 800 hp.

Again, slap on some sauce or a blower and call it a day.

sorry about the miles per hour mistake. but whats wrong with roller rockers? they bolt right on and with the 1.8 ratio, should add around 10hp.

[WaterDR]

Just seems too extreme. The motor is not designed to spin much faster and I have never heard of anyone making this mod on a sixer or a GT. Hey, you could be the first. But the work+cost vs results ratio just is not good enough.

Maybe someone else...or you will prove me wrong.

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by WaterDR

Just seems too extreme. The motor is not designed to spin much faster and I have never heard of anyone making this mod on a sixer or a GT. Hey, you could be the first. But the work+cost vs results ratio just is not good enough.

Maybe someone else...or you will prove me wrong.

um youve never heard of ANYONE using these? and its not extreme at all. just unbolt the upper intake manifold and valve covers and bolt them down.

[WaterDR]

Anytime you have to open the motor to gain 10 hp, that is too extreme for me. Not to mention spinning the motor faster then it should go w/o making any other modifications to the engine.

If you can find one guy here that has done this, and has dyno data, I will owe you a Starbucks. Gift card will be sent the next day.

[stangcharger]

to be honest youll prolly be in the mid 15's as you car sits now. maybe low 15's on a good run.

1.8RR's would be ok i have them in mine. 1.73's are ideal if you plan on a cam later.

looking into a J-mod would be benificial.

and BTW god help you if your running on 17in rims. if that is the case id say your in the 16's.

take it out to the track and see what it does. track time is the best way to lower et's. youd be suprised how much faster you accelerate at the track when launch as opposed to the street.

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by stangcharger

to be honest youll prolly be in the mid 15's as you car sits now. maybe low 15's on a good run.

1.8RR's would be ok i have them in mine. 1.73's are ideal if you plan on a cam later.

looking into a J-mod would be benificial.

and BTW god help you if your running on 17in rims. if that is the case id say your in the 16's.

take it out to the track and see what it does. track time is the best way to lower et's. youd be suprised how much faster you accelerate at the track when launch as opposed to the street.

i have 18*9 chrome saleens on my car and i cant see how im in the 16's now. i thought these cars run that stock? and my car is a hell of a lot faster with the gears and tune now than before and that is with the rims on.

[stangcharger]

Originally Posted by tigerfan2771

i have 18*9 chrome saleens on my car and i cant see how im in the 16's now. i thought these cars run that stock? and my car is a hell of a lot faster with the gears and tune now than before and that is with the rims on.

because for ever 10lbs added to rotating mass(i.e. your rims) you lose .1 sec in the 1/4. so by going up to 18's you prolly gained and easy 50lbs. that is half a sec slower in the 1/4 with your rims/tires alone. so basically your mods put you back to where you were stock. just to make up for the weight gained from the rims/tires.

really though with that big of rim and tires id say your more like 80lbs heavier. so good estimate would be .8 slower than if you had your stock 15's on.

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by stangcharger

because for ever 10lbs added to rotating mass(i.e. your rims) you lose .1 sec in the 1/4. so by going up to 18's you prolly gained and easy 50lbs. that is half a sec slower in the 1/4 with your rims/tires alone. so basically your mods put you back to where you were stock. just to make up for the weight gained from the rims/tires.

really though with that big of rim and tires id say your more like 80lbs heavier. so good estimate would be .8 slower than if you had your stock 15's on.

so how is it that when i raced a couple stock 99-04 v6's, i beat the hell out of them? how is it that i almost keep up with my friend's chevy ss intimidator and a 99-04 stock gt?

[stangcharger]

Originally Posted by tigerfan2771

so how is it that when i raced a couple stock 99-04 v6's, i beat the hell out of them? how is it that i almost keep up with my friend's chevy ss intimidator and a 99-04 stock gt?

bad drivers.

you couldnt keep up with a stock 99-04 gt anyway. they run low 14's and even if you hit low 15's a full sec difference is quite a bit.

listen facts are facts street races dont matter one bit. the track is completely different.

and were those races from a dig? cause that's what the track will be. and with no torque spinning those huge tires is going to be a chore.

there a reason why i put 15's on the front of my car when i go to the track. and would put 15's on the back as well if they could hold the tire i need.

this ratating mass theory has been tested to death and has the same result everytime. example a dead stock 03 cobra put v6 rims(15in) and did 12.6 in the 1/4. i dont know of any one with stock 17's doing that..it was because of the less rotating mass.

[WaterDR]

One second is a lot....then again ist is not that much either. Some guys run mid 14's and some can get into the 13's on a stock GT. But a car running mid 15's will not keep up with a low 14 second car. It is pretty much night and day. You can always find a "range" where the cars might look similar, but that is about it.

2 seconds or even one second is a lot at 90+ miles per hour. One second is something like 125 feet. That is not a close race in anyone's book.

[tigerfan2771]

alright but there is NO possible way that my car is as slow as it was all stock. between the tune and the gears, my car is a whole lot faster now. and once i get the torque converter, upper intake, intake spacer, pullies, lca's, j-mod, and throttle body, i should see about the same improvements as i did with the gears and tuner.

tell me if im factoring these in right:
lets say the rims add about .5-.8sec.

a stock 02 v6 runs about a 16.0. with the rims thats up toabout a 16.5-16.8.

the gears/posi-trac takes off about .5seconds
the tuner takes off about .2-.3seconds
the torque converter takes off around .4-.5seconds
the pullies ive heard around .2seconds
the j-mod is around .1second
between the headers,cat-back, intake, intake spacer, and throttle body around .2-.3seconds

with the addition of the lca's and maybe some other suspension mods, i should be able to get off the line much quicker as well. as it is right now, my car can get moving pretty quick up to 60mph and should only improve.
with the above mentioned mods, i see no reason why i cant hit a mid-high 14sec quarter mile. im not saying that this is impressive or anything, but it is my goal.

[stangcharger]

Originally Posted by tigerfan2771

alright but there is NO possible way that my car is as slow as it was all stock. between the tune and the gears, my car is a whole lot faster now. and once i get the torque converter, upper intake, intake spacer, pullies, lca's, j-mod, and throttle body, i should see about the same improvements as i did with the gears and tuner.

tell me if im factoring these in right:
lets say the rims add about .5-.8sec.

a stock 02 v6 runs about a 16.0. with the rims thats up toabout a 16.5-16.8.

the gears/posi-trac takes off about .5seconds
the tuner takes off about .2-.3seconds
the torque converter takes off around .4-.5seconds
the pullies ive heard around .2seconds
the j-mod is around .1second
between the headers,cat-back, intake, intake spacer, and throttle body around .2-.3seconds

with the addition of the lca's and maybe some other suspension mods, i should be able to get off the line much quicker as well. as it is right now, my car can get moving pretty quick up to 60mph and should only improve.
with the above mentioned mods, i see no reason why i cant hit a mid-high 14sec quarter mile. im not saying that this is impressive or anything, but it is my goal.

dont add figures they will never add up. see what rwhp you are at and the weight of your car. and that will give you the best ET guess.

[SSSTANG]

Originally Posted by tigerfan2771

alright but there is NO possible way that my car is as slow as it was all stock. between the tune and the gears, my car is a whole lot faster now. and once i get the torque converter, upper intake, intake spacer, pullies, lca's, j-mod, and throttle body, i should see about the same improvements as i did with the gears and tuner.

tell me if im factoring these in right:
lets say the rims add about .5-.8sec.

a stock 02 v6 runs about a 16.0. with the rims thats up toabout a 16.5-16.8.

the gears/posi-trac takes off about .5seconds
the tuner takes off about .2-.3seconds
the torque converter takes off around .4-.5seconds
the pullies ive heard around .2seconds
the j-mod is around .1second
between the headers,cat-back, intake, intake spacer, and throttle body around .2-.3seconds

with the addition of the lca's and maybe some other suspension mods, i should be able to get off the line much quicker as well. as it is right now, my car can get moving pretty quick up to 60mph and should only improve.
with the above mentioned mods, i see no reason why i cant hit a mid-high 14sec quarter mile. im not saying that this is impressive or anything, but it is my goal.

RICER MATH!!!!!!!!

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by SSSTANG

RICER MATH!!!!!!!!

how is this ricer math? im not adding up 60hp from the mods im making. just because i have a certain hp and weight doesnt mean im gonna run a certain time. how do you factor in things such as gears and a torque converter? and suspension mods like lower control arms?

[WaterDR]

Calling it "ricer math" is a bit mean, but I understand what he means. The ricer guys are always claiming rediculous numbers from the mods they do....I don't think you are being that excessive. But, the numbers really don't up the way you suggest.

It is great to have a goal.

If you want to know what you need to do to your car to get it into the 14's, then find a 6'er that runs that low and see what they did. I don't think you will find a single car w/o nitrous or a blower or at least ported heads with cams.

To get into the mid 14's, you need to be able to pull a 60 foot of under 2.0 seconds and will most likely need to trap near 100 miles per hour. That is a huge gain and is a straight function of either hp or weight. You don't have enough of the first, and have to much of the later. Suspension mods only will take you so far. This is why your car feels like it falls on it's face at 60 miles per hour......not enough hp. You need to make 50 to 75 more hp.

Your car feels faster for two reasons: 1 - It probably is. 2 - You wallet is now thinner so the butt-o-meter is more sensitive. This happens to everyone....not a bust on you.

There are some nice 1/4 mile calculators out there. Find a good one and start playing with the numbers (weight, gears, and hp) and it will show you pretty much what you need.

Have you raced it? Latop racing sucks. Get it to a track....make one mod at a time and practise. If you have never raced, I guarentee you suck...we all do at first. Everyone gets better as they go and running at a track is an entirely different experience then on a street.

[tigerfan2771]

Originally Posted by WaterDR

Calling it "ricer math" is a bit mean, but I understand what he means. The ricer guys are always claiming rediculous numbers from the mods they do....I don't think you are being that excessive. But, the numbers really don't up the way you suggest.

It is great to have a goal.

If you want to know what you need to do to your car to get it into the 14's, then find a 6'er that runs that low and see what they did. I don't think you will find a single car w/o nitrous or a blower or at least ported heads with cams.

To get into the mid 14's, you need to be able to pull a 60 foot of under 2.0 seconds and will most likely need to trap near 100 miles per hour. That is a huge gain and is a straight function of either hp or weight. You don't have enough of the first, and have to much of the later. Suspension mods only will take you so far. This is why your car feels like it falls on it's face at 60 miles per hour......not enough hp. You need to make 50 to 75 more hp.

Your car feels faster for two reasons: 1 - It probably is. 2 - You wallet is now thinner so the butt-o-meter is more sensitive. This happens to everyone....not a bust on you.

There are some nice 1/4 mile calculators out there. Find a good one and start playing with the numbers (weight, gears, and hp) and it will show you pretty much what you need.

Have you raced it? Latop racing sucks. Get it to a track....make one mod at a time and practise. If you have never raced, I guarentee you suck...we all do at first. Everyone gets better as they go and running at a track is an entirely different experience then on a street.

im not sure if youre a member of moddedmustangs.com but atlanticblue runs a 15.05-.08 with just bolt-ons and on 17/9&17/10.5 rims. all he has are 4.10 gears, posi-trac differential, mac long tubes,o/r h-pipe,magnaflow magnapack,cai,tuner,lowering springs,removed front away bar.

true i do have 18 inch rims, but i will have a torque converter, j-mod, lca's, ported upper, intake spacer, and tb in addition to most of his mods.

[SSSTANG]

Originally Posted by tigerfan2771

so how is it that when i raced a couple stock 99-04 v6's, i beat the hell out of them? how is it that i almost keep up with my friend's chevy ss intimidator and a 99-04 stock gt?

What do you consider almost?
And is said 99-04 gt the vert/auto version?

Anyway what kind of exhaust are you running?
AB ran a 14.9 with 4.10s, I could see you maybe running a 14.7 on some decent tires.

[White04GT]

I dont care what people say stock for stock a V6 can't keep up with a GT. That's like a GT owner saying he can keep up with a 03-04 cobra. This kid in high school had a v6 mustang with cai, Ud pulley's, and catback and his car was a standard and thought he could beat my GT because I was a stock auto. Ya I put a good bus length on his ass.