Hello,

I'm new to this forum and joined to learn more about suspension and what parts I need to lower my car. I've read a lot of posts and have been confused as to what parts I need to produce a nice drop without compromising additional tire wear, bump steer, and severe ride quality.

I was highly considering the Eibach Sportline springs.
I measured the gap between the top of my fender and top of tire and have approximately 4 inches in front and back. With this said I thought the Sport lines would help deliver more of the look I am looking for. I would probably be happy with about 1/2 to 1 inch gap at most. I think this might be about right. I have known people who have installed the Eibock Prokit and they were disappointed cause it still left to much gap and didn't really lower the way they intended.

I am confused first off which springs I should use... Again I am leaning toward the Eibach Sportlines. I already ordered the Motorsport CC plates
p/n 47000. I am considering the Tokico shocks/struts, but not sure which model. I was told the D-Specs were pretty nice, but again I want to make sure they don't produce a racetrack stiffness as again I will be using my car for the street. I do want a shock that will help reduce bottoming out in bumpy areas. I did like the fact that they are adjustable though for dampning. Next I've read about some needing offset steering rack bushings as well as the steeda bump steer kit and X-2 ball joint kit. Lastly some have stated they had to use Ford spacers cause their tires rubbed when reaching full turning radius.

Can someone please help me out here?
I was hoping to do this project right the 1st time so I can be happy.

Thanks


What I am looking for:
I want a nice looking stance.
To be used for street use only.
I want the right parts so I don't ruin my Goodyear ZR tires... Very expensive.

What I have:
2000 Gt Mustang
17 inch wheels
Goodyear 245-45-17

 

For a daily driver, just getting an Eibach Pro-kit is fine. Thats all I put on my dd and I still have to be careful in parking lots with even small speed bumps. I'm still running with stock shocks and struts and haven't had a need to replace the C/C plates or had any bumsteer issues. I certainly wouldn't want to go any lower because I'm scrapping the crap out of the bottom of my car as it is.

 

My mach on the other hand is a different beast altogether, went with H&R Sport springs and MM C/C plates and it already came stock with Tokico shocks and struts. The only thing I plan on doing to it now is a coil-over conversion for the front, but thats going to be a while.

 

Nice ride, I like the width of your tires... Mine are only 245. I will definitely broaden the width a bit on my next set of tires.. I would say 265's would be a nice number. As for the pro kit, I just don't think that would be enough drop for me considering I have 4 inches of gap front to back. It seems almost everyone I have heard that have had severe scraping problems have been a result of lowing their cars and not replacing the stock struts/shocks. You said you added the HR springs on your other mustang that already had the Tokico shocks... What is your opinion on the difference?

 

Nice Mach.... I want mine to have about the same drop as you have in the back on both front and back. I'm leaning toward about 1/2 to 1 inch gap between tire and fender. It looks like that is about what you have in the back of your mach. As for coil overs, that would be a nice choice. I may end up doing that down the road as well... It's nice to have the flexibility of dialing in the drop for different conditions.

Here is a better look at mine now as is stands... Now you can see it needs some lowering.

https://mustangboards.com/attachment...1&d=1182760984

 

The main difference in the GT shocks and the Machs Tokico is the stiffness and road grip I guess. The Mach is just tighter when it comes to cornering and holds the road alot better. The GT has a better, smoother ride, and much less bumpy.

As for the gap in the rear of the Mach compared to the front, the rear has 18 inch rims and the front 17 inch. I think I can make the front gap look less severe when I change the tires from 255/45s to 275/40s. I went with offset rims for a raked looked.

 

Yeah I've heard that using the stock shocks with any lowered springs will cause more chance of scraping cause as you say the ride is less stiff and more bouncy. Hell my mustang in my opinion has a terrible ride anyway, I figure at least I want it to look sweet with a tight drop and stiff shocks for better handling.. As high as mine is it feels like it wants to float right off the turn whenever I take a turn at even slow speeds.

As for your mach, there sure is nothing wrong with the raked look and don't get me wrong I thing it looks great. My wheels in my opinion look far to goddy (I guess is the right word). I bought the car with those wheels already installed. The dealer wanted to add on 1500.00 for them. I told them to stick the wheels up their %&$$#! LOL... I agreed to bring the car back to them so they can swap them for their stock mustang wheels...(16 inch). They forgot to document this, so they never made me return for the swap... so I ended up just keeping them. I want to sell them and get some Torque Thrust 2 Wheels either 17 or 18 with at minimum of 45-265 .. I would like to run the same tire front and back so I can rotate them... 285 in rear would be awsome if it weren't for the inability of being able to rotate.. That is unless I put 285 in front as well, but that would probably be a rubbing issue waiting to happen.

 

want a good ride and good perf, then make your life easy and grab a set of H&R sports and Tokico Illuminas and you'll be happy. You've got the right CC plates.

You can ignore basically all that other crap till you want to track the car. Then come back and PM me and we can chat.

BTW... worrying about the gap is a wheel choice issue more than a suspension issue. If you lower it enough to make 17's look like y'all are talking about it THRASHES the handling.

 

I've been researching the same thing for awhile and have come to this. For springs I think im going with the MM super sports ( good drop, like 1.75in fr and 1.6 in back and good stiffness). Match those up with a set of MM c/c plates and its on to shocks. For shocks its come down to a $ issue and its looking like either bilsteins(more $) or tokico illuminas(less $), but both highly recommened. Going for more overall stiffness like me add some MM subframes, front/rear sway bars, and a strut towers brace. As far as ball joints and bump steer kits im not sure. gl hf

 

Thanks for your opinions guys...

So far I have (2) items chosen
1. MM Cast Camber Plates
2. Bilstein Shocks

Still Trying to Figure out between
1. Eibach Sportlines
2. H&R Sports
3. Whether I need x2 balljoint and bump steer kit?

Why are these choices so hard?

 

I agree with R3d! The gap between the fender and tire is more of a rim/tire issue. I lowered my car with Eibach pro kit and put some 18 inch wheels and tires on there and I think the stance of my stang is pretty perfect. Make your next purchase for some new rims and tires, and dont got for the BIG drop. You will regret it if you drive the car on the steet at all!

 

The choices are hard because there's a lot of actual engineering involved that you're probably not trained for (no offense).

You don't need the x2 ball joint or the bumpsteer kit until you've had a bumpsteer measurement taken that says so. With a common drop you'll have some bumpsteer added but it's not normally enough for you to even detect outside of a race track environment. You'll just think it's a bumpy road. The x2 induces more bumpsteer so of course they'll tell you you need the BS kit with the ball joint. See the engineered way of selling you another part?

If you want to you can pop for the bumpsteer kit and have it measured (or buy the MM tool to check it and check yourself...not hard) and set the shims properly. Not a big task. The x2 is just not going to make enough difference for you to find value in so I'd recommend against it... besides it complicates the install with a big hassle.

Call up MM and get a set of their Foxbody length HD spec Bilstein struts and shocks. Great choice most people don't make due to cost but I love em. For springs take the H&R sports. If you're down with spending this much... might you consider a coil over conversion? it's very little extra cost considering all the parts you've spec'd and trust me if you get the right setup (I can help... or you can call MM) you'll be shocked and amazed at the change in handling and ride quality. To top it all off... coil over conversions allow you to fine tune ride height super fast and changing springs is stupid easy out back and much simplified up front.

 

Ok, you guys convinced me to go with the HR springs, but I think I will go
with the SUPER sport HR springs as they produce just a wee bit greater drop.
Hopefully this will be ok. I do greatly appreciate your words of wisdom as everything said makes a lot of sense. It actually makes me feel better knowing I don't need the X2 balljoints and bumpsteer kit..

I have the MM casters on the way
and will order.....
1. Bilstein shocks
2. HR Super Sport Springs

I will then shop for a sick set of 18 inch wheels....
I am planning to go with something like 265-35-18 on the front
and 285-35-18 on the rear... Anyone have any opinions on the tire sizes that look the best?

 

Hello r3dn3ck,

You recommended the Foxbody length HD spec Bilstein struts/shocks.
I visited MM website, but found several models for the 2000GT mustang.
Which one would you recommend? I would like to get the packaged set if possible. An ebay link was also recommended for some deals on the Bilsteins, but since there are several models I would want to make sure I get the right ones.. I'm not going to run coil overs so I don't need the grooved set and my suspension is NOT IRS.

American Muscle has a set for 599.00, but does not list the model #... Is this set ok?

http://www.americanmuscle.com/bilste...age-94-04.html


Thanks for your help...

 

if you're going with the SS springs then you should check with MM and see if their Sport spec Bilsteins would be more appropriate. Correct valving on your shocks and struts will greatly increase your satisfaction. Be aware that the added drop comes at the cost of that last bit of real compliance so the ride will be about as rough as is streetable.

If you're worried about the drop, stay with the Sport springs and HD struts/shocks and just don't install the spring isolators. It'll give you that extra bit of drop you want and won't give you spring rates you don't want or need. That's the best way to get what you seem to want.

EDIT: parts list coming in a few minutes.

strut: V36-4138-H3
springs: 51650
shocks: BE5-6418-H0
plates: MMCC9994
All that retail advertised price comes to about 860 bones.

For the best you can get without much more significant changes:
MM COP-52 + MMPB99A. Cost is advertised at 1900, you can probably do better. It's everything you'll really ever want for a car that doesn't get raced.

 

Hello r3dn3ck,

I took your advice and contacted MM's techline. The guy I spoke to seemed to be the most knowledgeable person I spoke with yet (outside of you folks here of course). He stated that he has personally lowered and tried almost all the different spring combinations on the market and spoke with individuals who have tried the various combinations out there. Without going into all the technical details he basically backed up everything you said. He stated that the mustangs have very very little suspension travel. He said that most individuals who don't know what they are doing go out and drop their car 2 inches or more to get that low look but take out all the suspension travel and have a terrible ride with poor handling. Despite the name, which makes you think these springs are extremely aggressive, he recommended the HR race springs. He said he swore these would give me everything I wanted for a street driven car. They lower the car roughly 1.25 in front and back. His next recommendation was the standard Bilstein HD shocks, the MM caster camber plates (which I already have) and lastly a set of subframe connectors.
These he said were very important and advised installing them before the new springs and shocks. He said with the uniframe body's they flex a lot. An example is when you bend thin metal back and fourth. It gets weaker as you bend it and then breaks. These connectors strengthen and reinforce the chassis apparantly. He said they have to be welded on and shops usually charge 2 hours for the job. These connectors are mm part number mmfl-3pc and sell for 149.00. the (pc) stands for powder coat, which can be substituted for (b) bare metal if desired. He gave me a part number of the package deal less the subframe connectors and mm- cc plates for a total of 956.00 that includes shipping charges. Oh, one other thing he said that the mustangs do not need any of those bump steer products as companies just try to sell you that stuff to make money and is not needed in most cases despite any of the lowering levels chosen.

 

re - bumpsteer and such: sucks being right all the time.

I don't like the race spring rate. It's harsh to me. To them it's solid feeling and they're right. You can try it if you like. Remember those guys at MM drive hot rodded stangs every day so it dulls them to the sensation a bit. Nonetheless, his combo is good. The SFC's are important to helping keep the suspension flexing and not the body. Get the bare metal set and hit em with a little rattle-can rustoleum after they finish welding them up.

Get the part numbers, then go to the corral (www.corral.net/forums) and PM artsparts and give him your list. He'll give you about the best prices I've found. I'd do the Panhard bar while you're at it. Weld it on with the rest of the parts install and you'll be pretty well done with suspension. Going up a level from there is extensive... and expensive.

 

r3dn3ck,

Hmmm I think I will flip a coin between the race and the sports.
Well everything you said made sense so far so I will order the sports with the HD Bilsteins.. As for this Panhard bar you are talking about, from what I read from the MM description it is a bolt on part (not weld on). If this is true then I would think it would be cheaper and make for an easier install wouldn't you? Heck! the welding shop probably wouldn't know what to do with it, and probably weld it to the rear bumper or something .

I will follow your recommendations for my parts price quotes though.. "Thanks!"

 

The PHB is technically a bolt on part true. However, MM and I both prefer a more permanent mount. I've personally bent the mounting hardware of a plain bolt on setup. I've never even come close to damaging a welded unit. It's a much stronger mount and they weld up in 20 minutes. I can provide detailed pictures of how mine is welded so your local suspension shop can duplicate it. You would have it welded in the spot that you would have bolted it. The mounting bracketry is stout enough to be zapped on. Feel free to bolt it up first, but you should eventually have it welded. The cost is minimal for the return. If you weld it you do not have to use the bolt up kit hardware... it's an either or both kinda deal.

 

Thanks for your info on the PHB...
I had assumed that is what you had meant that they would just reinforce the bolted area with the weld. I think I will first bolt it on to save a bit of money and then later after rebuilding my budget I will do as you recommended.

If you could sent me the information, I would appreciate it...
You can email it to ran2651@yahoo.com.


Thanks... You and the rest of the gang here have been very helpful.
If I hadn't have researched with you guys here I would have purchased the Eibock sportlines or the HR Super Sports and would have been miserable with a car that rides like a shopping cart.

 

I got my caster/camber plates today and am going to be ordering the rest of my parts this week.. I checked out Arts parts, but the business seemed kind of questionable to me. No offense to anyone, but the website looked like a fly by night site. Here is an example of the parts list he had...

Rear coilover kits
Blistens shocks-MMCO-3:$303.00
Blistens on IRS-MMCO-4:$284.00

The parts are even misspelled... I am no English professor, but it makes a customer kind of leery when the parts are misspelled... What are Blistens?
The prices look tempting, but seem sketchy...

 

heh...ive ordered from him though with no problems.

 

Ive had Eibachs and they are a good spring but they do tend to bottom out but have a softer ride since they are progressive rate. I could not recommend them if you see alot of speedbumps or like to stuff your car with alot of people. I currently have Bullitts and may switch it up if I have enough clearance with some H&Rs like r3d suggested.

 

art's is a paying corral vendor. they take crappy vendors seriously over there (as you might expect for the #1 stang site period...) and art has been doing business there for years. I've bought from him, so have many friends. He may not be paying much attention to the site or spelling but he/they are good people.

Don't expect premium service with the discount price but don't worry about them being shady... s'all good.

 

Thanks R3D for vouching for his integrity. Does he offer free shipping?

 

Hello R3D,

Would you happen to have the spring rate differences for the HR sport and super sport springs... I was just curious, as I was told the Super Sport Springs produce a much harsher ride. The actual lowering specs are almost identical between the 2 though. This is why I was getting the sports... Maximum drop and not limiting your ride quality. But I still wanted to read the specs to substantiate this :thumbsup: I know you are probably thinking....just buy the springs... but I am making one final pass sniffing for information before I purchase. Have to make sure the Sports are indeed the best for me.

 

Thanks to everyone's help and advice...
Here are the parts I was going to order this week to finalize this thing..

hr sport springs
mm cc plates (just received)
subframe connectors
bilstein hd shocks
Rear LCA's

I thought the LCA's would be better to add at this point then the panhard bar since I will have everything apart I would just toss them in. I can add the panhard bar later if needed and just bolt on.

Anyone have a recommendation on the LCA's I should get? Both the motorsports and the Steeda's looked pretty sweet.

 

 

Outstanding VENOM.... Thanks for the data. This definitely puts things into more prospective.

It was funny I called HR today and a lady answered. I asked if I could speak to their tech department to obtain the spring rates and general information pertaining to their springs. She said she could help me. She gave me spring rates on the HR Super Sports, and Race springs, but refused to give me the Sport spring rates. She said that because there are several competitors out there making similar springs and it would be like comparing apples to oranges.
I told her I didn't want to compare to other competitors, just their springs to stock rates. I then asked how she could provide me with the rates on the other springs, but not the sports? She had no answer. I thought that was pretty funny. The said something like it was counter intuitive to their business... LOL

Anyway, thanks for the info very helpful . This confirmed my decision to go with the HR Sports... The rate seems much more geared to a daily driver where I will not compromise ride quality.. This is what most have recommended here.

 

I finally placed my suspension parts order for my 2000GT Mustang...
After all this waiting, now I find my springs are on backorder though

I had my full length subframes welded in last week...
Already have my 4 way MM caster camber plates.

I ordered the following today:
Bilstein Shocks and struts
hd rear lower adj mm control arms with swaybar mount
HR Race Springs
Front and back new urethane isolators

So in 2 weeks max, when this stuff arrives I will start the wrenching.
Hopefully on week 3 I will have this all done

Thanks you all for your help on this forum. It won't look as low as I wanted it, but sacrificed that for better handling and not having to worry about tearing up my under carriage. I will up the pics when done.