well at least the mezire electric water pump fits a v10...

 

I thought it was a little odd but you never know. At least I was nice about it hehehe.

myillwill..when you strapping that bad boy to a dyno?

 

update time...

I decided to use my reichard plates cuz someone still has my other new plate. I've got the first one ported out to match the intake and heads. I also hit it with a little flat black high temp rattle-can.

The bottom cover of the HPS intake got a base coat of primer and it gets a coat of embedding ceramic white on the underside in a couple days. The ceramic white should reflect block heat. The intake top half gets a couple coats of flat black this week too. As long as you don't look too hard it'll really look a lot like a pretty much stock 4.6 with shiny blue fuel rails.

 

i'm trying to get some ong tubes madeup first and that intake before the dyno.


- u could send the intake to me for a solar flat black pc.....

 

almost went with that option but I saw this ceramic based paint on the powerblock and it seems to create the same bonded coating but from a rattle-can.

If you get longtubes, let me buy your shorties.. I need a set anyway.

Blitz... make this man some headers.

 

i just started working nites at oriellys auto parts and i'm getting a good deal on flowtech long tubes. i'm gonna order a set real soon and mod them to fit...

 

heres my latest round of thinking. and questions that go with it.

how hard would it be to convert to a front facing TB set-up?

i'm asking this because, like i've said before, i'd like to find a way to use the lightning lower and intercooler in a boosted set-up. I think the other layouts i've written up would work very poorly. fabricating a plate that would properly seal the intercooler would be difficult and most likely end in failure. So, i'm back to incorporating the lightning mid plate into the design as well. If redoing the throttle body layout so that it is front facing can be done with ease than i can have a sheet metal "lid" fabbed that will easily fit right on top the midplate. Make it with flat sides that i can put the vacuum lines on, and the top and rear be one piece that curves down as it goes back. Simple, easy to make, and has been done over and over by different people on many different applications that i know it will work great.

it would also look sweet, and confuse a lot of people.

if i had tons of money for the build, a TT kit similer to that of the one stage 6 makes for the FGT would also be sweet, with the charge tubes coming from both side of the bay and "Y" into the center mount TB.

a centri unit is far more realisting though.


so, how about that TB hardware?

 

Hey guys anyone who is still looking for a 5.4 block, crank, and timing cover i have all three if your close to Sumter, SC I'll sell all 3 things for $300. These parts are used.

I know this not the right section but I figure people interested in 5.4's read this forum.

Thanks,

Tyler

 

it's not "difficult" if you know how to and have the equipment to TIG weld. The only difference between needing a thing made from metal and having it are those 2 bits. It's still probably a better plan to use the lightning lower with a 96-98 cobra upper and a centri blower. Packaging it under a usable hood with a top mount just isn't going to be worth the expense. Centri will be much easier to fit but will require some work with your blower vendor.

Twinturbo330... thanks for the post up. Guys if you can use em' that's a great price. Any one of those items is worth most if not all of his asking price.

I also have a spare timing cover and all kinds of little bits. If you're needing something LMK.

 

I did this with a S/C lower and the stock upper hardware with a plastic adaptor plate. My goal was to use what I had available and make due. At the time I was shooting for N/A and when I drove the car NO TORQUE! Would you believe it? Granted it started to pull around 3500rpms and I tach the 6000rpm(not what i wanted) , but no torque. Now for blown applications, I think it would be perfect. Basicly the same concept, but the routing is diffrent. The good thing about the set up was, it all fit under the hood and it all went back STOCK. Now I did have to use some skills, but still everything went back on and under the hood.

My original plan was to shove this 5.4l into my '95 Crown Vic and use a lightning lower with a Mauruader upper(reversed Cobra upper) of course my plans change when I accuired the 'Stang. I did have all the parts needed, but knowing how the Mustang build went, it would have been a flop...N/A. Boosted would be perfect!

 

OH yea! Glad to be here!

 

welcome over. Happy to see our ranks grow.

So tell us a little about your motor and your install in general.

 

x2

i am very interested.

so, you were able to put it under the stock hood with that type of intake?

i would ideally like to have a boosted engine.

my plans were to get myself into a term cobra once i'm out of school, and go mod crazy. the only way i'll refrain from that route is to do a blown 5.4l swap into the car i already own.

 

The lower is from a Holley Thunder 144ci. S/C kit that I picked up on ebay. It is basicly like the Lightning lower.
I'll get a pic of it with the plastic adaptor.

As for the engine build, I brag about how much I spent.
My goal was N/A

New 2003 NVH Block $100
Used Ebay forged crank $60 shipped
New H beam+ARP bolts $350 shipped
New stock 4v Flat top pistons+rings & pins $120 shipped
New hardware, gaskets, seals, bearings, etc. $200
Steen Racing NON-PI heads $100
Stock PI cams $50 shipped

Roughly around $1000 for the engine build for all New parts minus- the crank and cams

I was intending to put the engine in a '95 Crown Vic. The Vic already has a T45 5spd like I have always wanted to do, plus the 5.4l would have been kick a$$.

My current set up is NO HOOD and truck PI intake with adpt. for the PI/NON-PI convert.
TONS of torque and more could be had with a tune! But as of now, I'm leaning towards the Holley Thunder S/C.
I purchased the Holley intake w/intercooler and mounting plate off ebay 2 years ago. And have here recently located the rest of the kit. So I quess I going after the S/C. I do'nt like the idea with the stock pistons, but I also just want a play toy.

I'm glad to see a forum with such strong views on the 5.4l! And some others like me!

What I don't understand is why this post has 80 pages.
Their should be a seperate forum for the 5.4l or call this forum a 4.6l/5.4l. I'm still new, but when some one is lurking for a 5.4l forum, they will not stop. There are no idications of a 5.4l forum. Food for thought!

 

that's a really good idea. I think I'll ask the other super-mods about creating a new forum just for 5.4L

Got to see some pics. Sounds like you really went whole hog on hot-rod mods. The soul of the sport is doing it yourself and your way... you're living the dream.

pics pics pics pics pics

EDIT: this thread started when there was almost no interest in 5.4s in the community. I really pounded the pavement to find a site where people would stay positive and keep coming back, and at the time the idea of having the largest 5.4 thread in the world seemed lilke a good way to draw attention to the option. now that pretty much everyone understands it's actually possible... it's probably time for all the stang boards to create a 5.4 stang forum.

 

how do you like the steen heads? i've heard nothing but great things about them. that in most cases the equal the flow and performance of some equally ported PI's at half the cost.

i've also never heard of that supercharger. i'll dig into that as well.

 

Well, for the heads, I really haven't been able to open them up. The truck intake stops flowing around 4500rpms. Not to mention the aluminum adaptor plate I made to adapt the stock Mustang upper plenum is a major restriction.
The work on the heads is great. I got the heads about 4 years ago when the guy that had them thought they were junk. He used stock cam regrinds with aftermarket springs, which in turn will damage the upper cam caps. He didn't like it, I did! I got a cheap set of professionally ported heads CHEAP. I stripped the heads, lapped the valves, put stock springs and retainers back in, and ditched the regrinds for stock PI's.
As for the S/C, Holley made about 75 kits for the 5.4l.
The kit included the 5.4l intake, intercooler, mounting plate for their 144ci(2.4l) roots type supercharger, upper plenum with an 80mm throttle body, and all nessary pullies and tentioners. This intake is for the PI style heads, but when using the intake gaskets for an old Vic with NON-PI heads, it's ok.
I'll post a pic from a MM&FF 6/24/02. A really good picture is in the SHM 4.6l book.

 

i'd like to see pics of the intake setup

 

Here is the pic from the magazine

 

a lot of people are quick to swap to PI heads and ride the bandwagon for nPI heads being trash.

That is both good and bad. bad, because it isn't true. Steen and Renegade have proven what can be done with nPI heads. Good, because when they throw them out, we can get them for next to nuthing.

on a stock 4.6l block, there is no need to go PI if you are going forced induction. if you like nitrous, than go PI. but the nPI's are more than enough to get you passed the limits of the block. Even with forged and shooting for high HP, the ported nPI's don't start losing pace for a while.

lots of stuff to be learned.

too bad there isn't much nPI 5.4l head info out there. maybe you could see about some adapters to modify and put a PI intake on that thing for the time being. than compare numbers with some of the PI head guys here (red and myillwill) once they get some numbers also.

 

she looks BIG.

any pics of when you had the adapters and lid?

 

MMmmmmm BIG! Big is Goooood!

The PI bandwagon worked for a lot of people for simplicity. The get the heads, the matching intake, and slap'em on....WOW it worked.

 

The npi heads outflow (IIRC) PI heads all the way to about .500 lift.. then the PI heads really shine. With a cam grind that has a nasty ramp rate (like any modular motor aftermarket cam will) and high lift there's no keeping up with the PI's. That said, the NPI can be and regularly are ported to flow just as well as a ported PI head. The larger chambers of NPI's also drop your compression down a point which is nice for blower cars.

The PI vs. Npi ground has been plowed pretty well already and for the most part everything that is relevant for 4.6's is still true for 5.4's as far as heads go. The 5.4 has much higher flow requirements which the PI heads don't do very well to start with. So ignore any kind of references to one compared to the other. They have different use cases for us.

I think the big reason we've all done PI so far is that the piston sits so deep in the hole even at TDC that good NA compression is hard to come by on the 5.4 block. On 4.6's there's only .008" deck clearance at TDC, on the 5.4 it's a full .1" more. The smaller chambers on the PI heads build up compression ratio which is nice for power in NA cars but not always good for blower cars, especially those driven on pump gas. Aside from that.. there's better intake options available for the PI heads and adapter plates are currently carved in the PI shape. If we find a good market for the npi to pi conversion and adapter plate all in one, taht's an easy change to the CNC program and should be doable. Expect a higher price than the standard PI plates until the demand picks up.

lastly... many of the people who's opinion I respect because they've earned it have said repeatedly that Steen does great work period. That's a pretty tall endorsement from those guys. I'd be inclined to trust them.

BTW... I do have a ported PI head (just 1) sitting in my garage. It's 100 bucks plus shipping to any of you 5.4 swappers (regardless of post count) and 150 to any other MB member with over 150 posts. It'll need stripped and very well cleaned but it's otherwise good. Members not doing a 5.4 swap and with less than 150 posts may not purchase it. I'll also have a set of fully ported adapter plates for sale soon. Ported by me.

 

i'm going to have to redo some research and start reading everyhing about nPI vs PI again, because if i were to go from the top of my head i'd say it was the nPI heads that flow well passed .500 lift. intake side only. exhausts ports are just pothetic. in ported form PI outflow up nPI up untill just after .500 lift on the intake, yet outflow the nPI exhausts everywhere.

again, time retrace my research on the subject.

i agree about the 5.4l's situation. PI for sure. every little bit helps these engines + the compression is really needed.

 

I could be totally off base on which is which for below .500 lift flow but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Just got a new idea for intake manifold tinkerings.... off to run it through the simulator... see if it's any good.

 

In stock form, the PI head does out flow the NON-pi. Low lift flow and exhaust flow is where the PI rains. The PI heads in stock form Intake valve stalls below .500 lift.
The stock Intake NON-PI does not stall at any lift, but low valve lift flow suffers. STOCK form. Knock down the swirl dam and you see the same flow #'s from both untill around .500" lift then the NON-PI's keep flowing. But what good is it if the exhaust can't flow. This is where the NON-PI's are poopy.


When compared together fully ported with flowbench, dyno runs, and bench racing alone, they both are very good heads.
This debate could go on forever, so I say we each spill are beans and leave it at that!

My head choice would be the SVO!

NOW keep in mind when you see these companys selling ported heads with flow #'s, those #'s are from a MAX bore size. By flow the heads at a max bore the valves are unshourded MORE then the stock bore. So ofcourse the companys are going to say "Intake flow .600" lift 220cfm and Exhaust lift .550 172cfm, but will not state what bore they got the numbers from. That is another reason why both heads are kind of poopy compared to 5.0 heads, The bore shourds the valves. Get a max bore block, your heads instantly flow more stock.
SVO heads moved the valves closer together for that reason.

 

see... all the more reason to use the .020 overbore.

Update and pics coming shortly: I've finished the porting of my reichard plates. They've gotten a nice smooth coat of flat black. The top of the intake followed suit and found a coat of flat black.

Today I'm going to slap on my new chin spoiler, fix a squeaky brake rotor, set ride height again, install a couple more guages and then I think I'll play a video game.

 

I've been watching this thread for some time now and roughly 4 months ago I decided to do the swap into my '02 gt. The old 4.6's rods became bent after some nitrous detonation and I was considering a cobra motor but thanks to all the posts here I went 5.4. Mods are '02 pi 5.4, trick flow upper plenum, 75mm TB, bbk x-pipe (custom stretched by a jack to mate to the 5.4), bbk cold air, alum. flywheel, and 373 gears. The main reason for me posting is that I recently got a tune and wanted to share the info. Max power was 265.7 and 345.9 torque. Peak to peak I only gained 15hp, 20trq,from baseline but the gains elsewhere were very impressive. Around 3k the torque gain was around 40 ft lbs. So the tune was way worth it and the power comes on ultra smooth now. I want to thank everyone on here that contributed to this and inspired me to do the swap as i'm very pleased with the outcome. Dave

 

First, I'm really happy you posted. Welcome to the machine. Those are good solid numbers. must pull like a freight train. I'm sure you get razzed a bit about the hp output but the torque is so worth it isn't it.

Which intake did you end up going with?

In any case, if you ever find the need for more power, a set of stage 1 cams should be worth serious gains in hp and modest gains in tq. If you have a dyno graph you can post up I'd be really appreciative. The hard data is one of those things that really brings the visitors in.

Now then, I just got done reading the Under Pressure column in MMFF and I have to say, I'm as dismayed as the rest of you. I'd like to mount a quick letter writing campaign to Mr. Holdener and we can all ask him why they keep ignoring the fast growing 2v 5.4 swap trend. I don't know about you guys but I've got hundreds of hours of my own time invested in getting parts made, resources listed and building interest among our brethren. I can't understand why this singularly classic hot-rodding tradition is poo-poo'd by the assorted Stang rags. 5.0&SF did a couple articles and then dropped the subject like a hot potato.

I would like you all to write MM&FF (as I will be sending my email today) an email and ask them to give us our moment in the sun. We've been at this single thread daily for 19 months, helping people pull this swap off and we've now got better than a dozen people around the country now running 330 Triton power and loving it. Please find my sample letter below (please keep yours short and well written or they'll never publish it):
mailto:mmff@primedia.com

Dear MM&FF:
First let me say I love your magazine and I respect the difficult job you have trying to please everyone at once. I know it's a tough job and I'm reticent to do so but, I have to bring up an issue that's begun to be a rub for a rapidly growing segment of the modular crowd: Why is it that MMFF has paid zero attention to 2v 5.4L swaps for 4.6 powered cars; particularly dyno thrashes, theory discussions and the like?

I just read the Under Pressure column in the October issue and I was dismayed to see there was zero mention of the 2v option for 5.4L power. Yes, the 2v head suffers from a lack of flow and corks the max output but with proper cams, ported heads and the available intake manifold options we have shown very impressive numbers are not difficult or overly expensive to achieve. Most people don't even care about the dyno numbers. We just love that shove in the back the megalithic torque gives us at any speed.

I'm asking you to give us our day in the sun. Give us a back to back dyno thrash of 2v 5.4's using intake adapter plates (ported and unported) and 4.6L oriented intakes. Or, you could show us recipes with various combo's of cam/head/intake packages. Show us something technical about tuning the 5.4 for passenger car use. Show us something... anything. We've done the legwork and we've gotten a real hook into the community. Interest in the swap is there, and so many of us are doing it or have already finished that we're beginning to feel neglected at the lack of coverage by our favorite Stang mag. We know it's worth it to us and we know that that matters to you but we can't see it or read it mattering unless you write about it.

We want you to show us you're listening but we don't "expect" anything. It'd be great just to have Mr. Holdener give 2v 5.4's a mention in the upcoming 5.4 4v articles or tell us he's at least considering some diving into 2v 5.4 land. It'd be unreal to have you actually do the kinds of series based articles I'm thinking of and I know those editions would cause a lot of commotion and discussion in the Forum-o-sphere. Show the love. Validate our expenditure of effort with a little spotlight on this thing that is so close to the hearts of so many.

Me

 

I ended up just using the stock pi 4.6 intake with the reichard adapter plates that I cleaned up a little for better flow. The car really does haul compared to the 4.6 and the torque is pretty wicked. I haven't been razzed yet about hp which really I don't think is all that bad because if you account for the 15% drivetrain loss is puts it at around 305hp and 397trq at the motor. The tune made a night and day difference so to anyone else considering doing this a tune is a must. I'll attempt to get a good scan of the dyno sheet within the next day.