bassman97

You could modify the Edelbrock 4.6 intake by cutting it down the middle of the plenum, widen it, and then machine an adaptor to go from the wider mounting point to a standard carb mount. This way, you enlarge the plenum for performance and add a spacer for the carb.

HotRodDaddy

I'm new to the thread. I've been trying to get up to speed before asking questions. It's been stated in a few places that doing the 4V swap is much more complicated and expensive. What parts are different? Why is is it so much more complicated?
-Thanks

sstang

Okay thanks r3dn3ck. I've got plenty of time before the project materializes, so maybe something new will come out. If worst comes to worst, I'll hand port the adaptors or simply just stay EFI. Do the adaptors have plenty of material to port? And do you use a dremel tool or what?
Could be done, but a lot of work. All someone like Edelbrock would have to do is widen there 4.6L manifold in a program and with the press of a button have a new 5.4L manifold. Oh well....

And also, does anyone have any good links to read up on carbureted modulars? I can't seem to find much. I have a few questions I'm trying to figure out, like what needs to be done with the fuel system? I'm assuming I could get a regulator to lower the fuel pressure and that's it...

__________________
'03 GT (4R70W)
Yukon 4.10's, C&L intake, MAC cat-back, SCT tune, Steeda LCA's, FRPP C-springs

1/8 mile time: 8.67 @ 82.25 miles per hour
awaiting install: NX 125 shot & offroad x-pipe

r3dn3ck

It's really not that bad. You're just doing a 4v swap and a 5.4 swap so there's all the stuff you had to deal with for the 4v swap and then the intake and exhaust stuff from the 5.4 swap. It's really not that bad.

You'll want to call up Maximum Motorsports and ask about the K-member spacers (they should be ready soon if not already), get a tubular k-member, a 4v motor and a proper intake. Intake choices are actually pretty varied. I like some of kar-krafts offerings but Al Papito is the man for short runner jobs. Navigator intakes are ok but better for trucks than cars.

If you want a 4v don't be afraid of it... it's worth it and not actually that hard. I think many of us just got spoiled on the simplicity of the 2v swap.

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Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box.
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r3dn3ck

The adapters can be ported quite a bit but the angle changes are always going to be there. I'd use a carbide die grinder for the major metal removal and then a sanding roll to clean up the gouges. If you want, I can port yours for a modest fee. It'll take me a whole day and a few sanding rolls to do the pair otherwise I wouldn't charge at all. I can also port them in trade for new or used parts (specific parts)if you like that option. A dremel will take easily 100 hours to do the job.

For the EFI, you'll need a carb fuel pump, distributor setup or the Edelbrock Victor jr 4.6 intake (and you'd think the 5.4 intake I thought they made) kit which allows you to retain the stock COP ignition and uses all the stock sensors and allows you to tune timing tables and all that jazz.

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96blackgt54

I should post a pic of my porting tool! One nasty MOFO!
It's electric too!

HotRodDaddy

R3d, thanks for the quick reply. I've got the intake options from reading the string. What exactly is entailed in the 2V to 4V? Do I need to change the computer or something? Earlier in the thread I got the impression that this swap would be the equivilant of brain surgury using plastic utensils! Glad to hear that it isn't that bad.

What I'm actually planning is a swap from 3V to 4V now that I'm thinking about it. I want to do this with the current mustang. I'm sure I'll still need to do a K-member swap. But other than that it shouldn't be that different right???

Mustangguy84

Hey guys, I've been lurking this website for the past week and read to page 64. I think that's an accomplishment. I've decided I'm for sure going to do this after I finish my other components first. I'm finishing up my suspension first and I just orded a tubular K-member from Granatelli, front control arms, coil overs and need a camber/chamber kit and rack and pinion. I got the K-member from reading some post about a tubular K-Member. I'm either next going to hook up my Fuel Cell and new pumps, or do a 6 speed conversion. A 5.4 is DEFINENTLY going in my car before Nitrious or getting blown. I'm really impressed with the idea and am grateful to find others out there doing it. I figure, in a matter of years, I can get all this hooked up. I want to beef the rest of the car completely before opting to make a torque monster out of it. I may even put in a roll cage before doing the conversion. 5.4 short block for 300$ all built for under $2000 is easy. Keep it rollin.

__________________
1996 GT
2002 Motor, C&L Intake Pleneum, CAI, MSD Coil Packs, Granatelli 8.5 Wires, Grantelli Adjustable Upper Control Arms, Grantelli Adjustable Lower Control Arms, Air Flow Air Bags, EdelBrock Subframes, BBK Headers, Bassani X-Pipe, Cat Back. Yeah, Building a Race Car. Future Mods: 5.4 Blown 6 speed Nitrious. Watch Me.

sstang

The biggest difference why someone would go 2V swap over a 4V swap is the price. Getting a 4V motor can be thousands, while a 5.4 2V can be had for a few hundred. It's up to how much you want to spend. You obviously plan on spending a lot of money on your ride, so it seems like a 4V may be better for you.

__________________
'03 GT (4R70W)
Yukon 4.10's, C&L intake, MAC cat-back, SCT tune, Steeda LCA's, FRPP C-springs

1/8 mile time: 8.67 @ 82.25 miles per hour
awaiting install: NX 125 shot & offroad x-pipe

HotRodDaddy

I've been dying to have a serious HotRod for about 15 years. Business is starting to go well and I've found a way to make the car a business write-off. I'd rather go to car shows than pay taxes ANY day so the biggest difference is the expense of the engine? Makes sense. Can I do a 5.4 2V and then later just change the heads? That would be ideal if it can be done that way.
Thanks

r3dn3ck

Sure can. It's easier IMO to start there. Then it's just a simple 4v swap later on. There's all the normal research on the 4v swap you'll want to do but it's basically a head/intake/exhaust and front cover swap to go from 2v to 4v but there's a couple suspension and clearance issues you'll have to address but nothing is a blocker to getting it done. No k-member swaps are normally needed per se but it helps with the more radical combos to have the extra space.

3v is actually harder to do than a 4v because there is no intake solution that's much good and there's a lot of deleting systems on the OEM 3v engine to install it in 96-04 cars. For 05+ cars a 3v 5.4 is still a bit of a challenge with the intake but plates should be on the market already for that. I'd do 2v then 4v... since intake solutions and exhaust solutions are pretty much there already it's all fairly straightforward.

I'd plan on spending 3500 for a solid built bottom end. Set it up for about 10:1 on the 2v and run it NA or with nitrous, and then when you swap the heads later on it'll be closer to 9:1 on the 4v and allow liberal use of boost. It'll be an anvil you can play with the top end on and explore all your power dreams. Buy a donor engine complete so you can strip it of pulleys and tensioners and covers and all that good stuff.

MMR has a screamin' sale price on their 5.4 Street Mod 900 block. I built mine a little stouter than their Street Mod 700 and the 900 has a few really nice upgrades over that. Get the ARP studs for heads and mains.

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Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box.
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HotRodDaddy

So, since I want to do the '05& newer, I should put in a 5.4 2V (get a complete doner engine for misc. parts) and then later swap the other stuff to get to 4V. Sounds good.

Any ideas if there's hood clearance issues with this? I'm planning on using the intake from Sullivan and the cobra adapter shown on their website.
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../intake5.4.htm http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y.../tbadapter.htm

BTW, this is the best, most informative thread I've found. I have a lot of computer time at my office and I've been looking. Well done guys!!!

96blackgt54

Hood clearance will always be an issue with the mod motors, 4.6l or 5.4l. More for the 5.4l

As for the info, R3D has done a good job on the research
and development, but one guy alone can't carry all the info. All the guys on this forum have contributed what they know for free! This is my way of saying THANKS guys!

Welcome aboard HotRodDaddy!

96blackgt54

Hey guys! I've got a crazy idea.

Maybe this has already been mentioned and it may be overkill, but what about a long rod 5.4l LOL!

It's possible with the mainstream stock piston's and a longer rod. There is that .108/.110 TDC space that a longer rod could take up. Also the compression spike!

Just a thought! The swept volume would be the same, but the longer rod geometry would aid in more torque!(like it needs moreLOL)

r3dn3ck

What year is your car? We'll just start there and make it easy for you.

FWIW... the sullivan is more suited to supercharged/turbo'd engines on the street and 8K rpm drag queens NA. It's not the best street intake for NA. We'll cover intake selection when you've decided on a RPM range, power level and a bunch of other things. Intake choice is going to affect the total package quite a bit so don't make any choices till you know the whole combo. Me and the boys can help you figure out a good combo for your needs.

Why don't we start with the car info as it sits, budget, timeline, use case and desired power level (how much gas you can afford basically).

__________________

Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box.
www.squarerootofone.com
My CarDomain Page

r3dn3ck

There's someone doing a sort of that..

He's using stroker pistons, 5.8" chebbie rods, and turning rod journals on the crank to 2" (SBC size) and turning the counterweights down to clear the 4.6 block. It's a lot of custom parts and machine work but it should end up with 5.4L in a long rod stroker on a short deck modular block (4.6).

I guess if you could move the pin up into the oil ring groove a little and bump it to a 6.8" rod you could get a little more tq... but really for all the expense it starts to become time to look at sleeving the block for 3.7" bores otherwise the valves will stay shrouded and you'll never make the hp that that sort of mod should net you.

__________________

Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box.
www.squarerootofone.com
My CarDomain Page

r3dn3ck

Big time. I know what worked for me but the other guys all have really valuable experience and have made contributions I couldn't imagine doing without. If it weren't for each and every one of them staying with the thread we'd have never gotten intakes and adapter plates and headers made.

Some really big props go to pretty much everyone that you see posting regularly. Thanks to all of you from me.


BTW, guys looks like header project is back on. The best name in mustang headers is first up. They're creating a vendor account for the project now. This also means I may not have my car for a few weeks here pretty soon. Grrr.

__________________

Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box.
www.squarerootofone.com
My CarDomain Page

sstang

Oh man it would be worth it though!

__________________
'03 GT (4R70W)
Yukon 4.10's, C&L intake, MAC cat-back, SCT tune, Steeda LCA's, FRPP C-springs

1/8 mile time: 8.67 @ 82.25 miles per hour
awaiting install: NX 125 shot & offroad x-pipe

cardude

when it comes to the header project is it longtubes?

King Justice

Wow I have never heard of a 5.4L Mustang before.
Have you successfully swapped yours? I definitely want to see a video to hear how it sounds and runs.

__________________
Pontiac Grand Am vs Ford Mustang anyone?
Mustang Body Kit

myillwillinc

?????

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5.4 project in progress
linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm

T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way....
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