2005 Mustang GT Automatic 281 3V SOHC VCT
To make a long story short, one month ago I was driving to work and hit a puddle eh Lake of water, a few hours later I got a Check Engine Light, SCT showed DTC P0340 Cam Positon Sensor (A) error.
Mods: were Steeda Underdrive Pulleys (UDP), K&N CAI, Steel braided hose covers and Magna Clamps, Plenum Cover, Pioneer Avic-D1 (this is important later in the story). I flashed the PCM back to Stock, reinstalled the Stock Air Box and took the car to Dealer#1, after several days of fighting about the UDP, the Magnason Moss Act and Warranty denial the fix the alternator because of a TSB showing this exact issue being caused by a faulty Diode in the generator.

I get the car home after a few days in a performance shop getting 4.10 gears and the DTC P0340 showed up again, I removed the UDP's and put car tune back to stock once again, still that error (BTW there was performance issues associated with this code, the throttle was boggy at low speeds)

I take the car to Dealer#2 this time since Dealer#1 gave me a hard time about aftermarket parts, after a week the dealer calls back and says they have tried everything, they replaced the PCM and the Cam Position sensor A and B are still showing the DTC P0340 & DTC P0344.

So dealer#2 is not denying warranty because of aftermarket parts, they are saying that They can't figure out what the problem is, so to eliminate all potential problems, FOMOCO is asking that I remove ALL Aftermarket parts so as to repair my car. they use diagnostic step sheets to try to figure out service issues, the dealer is telling me that they have tried ALL diagnostic procedures thus far, so they are now pointing to the aftermarket parts. None of which are Engine performance parts I might add

Steel Braided Hose / line covers and Magna Clamps (Possable RF interferance)
Pioneer AVIC-D1 Nav System (Possable RF interferance)
Midwest Plenum Cover (Possable RF interferance)
Sequental Taillights (Possable RF interferance)
FFRP 4.10 Gears (Possable causing PCM failure)
Polished Stock Aluminum Valve Covers (Possable RF interferance)
Non Ford MOCO Approved Air in the Tires, (Possable vibration)
Non Ford MOCO Approved Wax/Polish (Possable wind turbulance)

After Above list is taken care of, then the Dealer can continue to diagnose the problem

Has anyone seen this issue? any ideas? I hate to strip the car down, Help please....

 

Well that really sucks for you. But i wonder if this has anything to do with my problem. My car has been throwing the cam position code for quite some time now. Although i have cams, it only started after 3 or 4 months with having the cams. My guess is the sensor just went out... so i'll replace it and get back to ya. But i have no warrenty, so i might just have to deal with that code and the stupid light. Hope you get yours figured out.

 

There's no way gears could cause a pcm failure. Its prolly the wax LOL. Thats weird that 2 ford dealerships cannot figure it out. Good luck man, that just sucks.

 

I read this on another forum and sorry for all the hell that the FORD dealership gave you.

 

For the love of Dog do what they ask. They're working with you. That's totally uncommon and you need to count your blessings and work em' while you can. You were VERY smart to remove all the other mods before going in, now stay smart and play by their rules. If your car spends too much time in the shop, you may be able to have it classed as a Lemon and have the whole damn thing replaced. They MUST fix warranty items completely. Check your states Lemon Law. If you want quick info, call a Chevy dealer in your area and tell them you're working with a Ford dealer and you'd like to know how to stick it to them... just make sure you don't mention which dealer. They're sometimes owned by the same guy and that never plays well trying to get one to stick a fork in the other when they have a common owner.

You've probably managed to get water into a harness clip somewhere and it's causing a less than perfect signal. Without replacing the whole wire harness and all the related sensors they'd never find it. Once you play by their rules they have to play by them too and that usually ends up with you getting what you want... a nice pretty perfectly running car.

 

Yea, I am trying very hard to play by their rules, but come on my radio causing an engine malfunction.. thats just stupid, But I disconnected it when I got there. I never removed the Sequential Turn Signals though, I hope they don't notice, as for the gears, well I will have to play this one by ear. I told them that it cost me 400 to install with FFRP Gears, and it will cost 600 get it back to stock, then reinstall the 4.10 again later. So no way on the gears.

I waxed the car this morning with Ford Approved Wax I had from my Ranger Dealer Kit :shifty: So, hehehe can't blame the wax :clap:

Mug11, the sensors are about 15-20 bucks each and are accesable from the front of the engine

 

Dam your Right, I forgot to change the Air in the tires, :bash:

hahaha, I hope I can really laugh about it later, but now it seems so rediculace that we have to go through this song and dance.
I would hate to get another car because Mineral Grey is no longer avalable
Unless I can get Grabber Orange

 

Polished Stock Aluminum Valve Covers (Possable RF interferance)
Non Ford MOCO Approved Air in the Tires, (Possable vibration)
Non Ford MOCO Approved Wax/Polish (Possable wind turbulance)



YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING!!!!!! How do they know what wax you used anyway? And exactly what is FOMOCO approved air?? Do they sell in a freakin can like the fix a flat ****? These guys are utter retards and every single one of their service techs should be shot for mentioning air, valve covers and a freaking UPPER PLENUM COVER as being related to a cam position sensor issue. They must be hiring ricer boys as service techs these days. Next thing you know you're gonna get your car back with no codes and a type-R sticker on it. They'll claim the sticker fixed your problem AND gave you 10 horsepower.

 

I agree with redneck here. They are trying to work with you even though an aftermarket modification may be a cause of the problem. With that said they can stop your warrenty on the spot. You need to do whatever they ask and be as nice as possible about it because they are bending over backwards for you.

 

Yea, those last items were sarcasim at it's worst, I told them to the service advisor, he did not think is was funny....

But they did want me to remove all cosmetic parts, Plenum cover, Steel braided hose covers and the Pioneer AVIC-D1 Navigation Radio.. I did not remove my 4.10 gears, Sequential Tail lights and MAC Mufflers.. they may ask for these items next.. If they do I will say :censored: and take my car elsewhere.

LOL it's funny you say this, when I left that dealer I looked in the employee parking area and there was some rice there, a couple of Riced Focus's, a 94 Mustang HUGE TAIL FIN, and accura, honda multi colored, Now I am re thinking this, thanks bummer

 

Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) is electromagnetic radiation which is emitted by electrical circuits carrying rapidly changing signals, as a by-product of their normal operation, and which causes unwanted signals (interference or noise) to be induced in other circuits. This interrupts, obstructs, or otherwise degrades or limits the effective performance of those other circuits. It is also known as Electromagnetic Interference or EMI.

The 05-06 Mustang is compleatly controlled by a computer, if anyone of these sensors receive RF they will send bad data back to the PCM, causing an error.

 

I'll have to agree that all of those things aren't even really mods. There's no way any of them but maybe the radio could cause an ELECTRICAL problem with the engine sensors. Tell them to dig their heads out of the FOMOCO step by step manual and use their frickin brains for a minute. Then they can find the shorted wire harness and replace it.

 

Claiming RF interference is just plain lazy troubleshooting. There's always a solution. If RF in a 12V system were that big a problem then no laptop or personal computer on the planet would operate properly. Ever seen how close the average motherboard puts the power plug to the RAM. Neither is sheilded... and that's a much more RF sensitive system than a car.

 

There are very limited numbers of electrical cables in a vehicle that could cause RF interference. Spark plug wires & coils and the cables coming directly off the battery and alternator. Anything other than that is not going to emit a signal strong enough to interfere with a thing. Total power carried by a conduit is the big factor in RF intereference. If there's low voltage and low current, you're not going to get anything. That's all there is to it. If you want to know more about it, feel free to PM me. I'll give you a whole lesson on it.

 

PM hell.. I think everyone here could use a quickie course in radio energy and how it relates to electricity. hell if it takes a bolt of fuggin lightning to make my radio go pop it would need to be a huge power spike to cause a ECM to go buggy.

Post dude....

 

HOLY CRAP, Just got a call from the Dealer, they are pulling the valve covers on Friday.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.. Over...
Now it's getting serious, Why not just check the wiring??? Noooo that would be to easy.
"Jeez Bobby Joe, I rekon we take the motor apart to find whats caus'en this here short circuit"

 

Perhaps they think there might actually be a problem with the way the cam is sitting. Remember that on 05/06 the cams can be tinkered with a bit electronically. At least they've decided to just fix it and quit buggin you about dumbazz RF BS. Count them blessings. You've found a dealer willing to fix their own products.

 

You right, they are willing to fix, their just taking their sweet time. Our Mustang Club has their Drag Days on the first saturday of each month and this is the second one I will miss because of this issue I already paid two months ago in advance. It's bugging me to see what she can do at the track, I don't race on the street so this would have been my first time racing her, and I'll miss it again. just bummed Plus there are three local car shows this month I have missed, again bummed

 

OK, crash course. Electrical power, especially DC is very easy to calculate. It's voltage multiplied by the current (in Amps) equals the power carried by a given conduit. So a 12Volt voltage running at 2 Amps is only 24 watts of power. Every cable that carries any electrical current generates an RF signal. The calculation for power in an AC circuit is very similar to DC. The only difference is you add in a power factor. The power factor is simply a derivative of Impedance (the combination of resistance, capacitance and induction) To keep things simple, we'll just stick with DC here. It takes a hell of a lot of power to generate an RF signal strong enough to interfere with anything. Simply because of the voltage of the majority of a cars electrical signal, those circuits won't interfere with anything. The only cables and systems that will generate a strong RF signal are going to be wires of the ignition system going to the spark plugs and I would think the cables coming directly off the battery. Them telling you that the aftermarket sequential tail lights is ubsurd because they aren't going to draw much more current, if any than the OEM ones. Did you have to put a higher current fuse in the block when you installed them? What about the stereo head unit?? Bigger fuse there either?


Good to see that they're working on the problem and not being totally retarded about this still.

 

I agree, I had the same argument with them about the items, even the Steel braided hose covers, interference how, electronicly does not work, unless I am driving under a high tension line or right next to a high powered transmitter antenna tower. if by monday this is not resolved I will contact Ford take it to the next step.

 

Well, after almost a month, replacement of my Alternator, PCM, Cam sensors, and the Camshaft phaser gear, no more codes :banana:

I find two things strange on the service order, first off they charged me to remove my steel braided fuel line, also they state that the Camshaft phaser gear was binding, my question is what was causing it to bind????
second thing is that it says that they replaced the right camshaft phaser gear, yet they list a sensor and gasket on the invoice, BTW I told them to replace the cam position sensors two weeks ago, before the PCM replacment.

Anyway I seems to be working fine, will road test more tomorrow.