Suspension Help

Shaker242 · 07-18-2005, 05:02 PM

I need to ask for some assistance here... I recently had the Steeda X2 ball joints, Steeda Tie Rod ends (bump steer kit) added along with Tokico shocks and struts and UPR "Shark" Caster Camber plates. When I left the shop I heard a great deal of "chatter" from the front end and was told this was most likely the camber plates. Then I noticed that under hard breaking the steering wheel rocks back and forth a lot.... later on the long drive back from Georgia the front end started "popping" and "snapping"... loudly.

I just got back from the shop and had my camber plates replaced and the "chatty" sound is gone; however, the popping and snapping continues and I have no idea what's going on. Now on the way home I was breaking hard and the steering wheel continues to move back and forth violently. I was under the impression that the bump steer kit should remove this rocking in the steering wheel… the shop claims that they didn’t notice any popping and snapping but I’m sure they never drove the car since it happens all the time.

Also, if anyone is in the Northern Virginia area (Loudoun/Fairfax) and know of a good performance shop, do let me know…

Shaker

ModMotorRacer · 07-18-2005, 05:53 PM

Any time you change your stock suspension to make it lower, adjustable, etc you are going to lose a certain amount of comfort. Changing your OEM squishy rubber bushings even to a poly type will transmit road noise/feel and feedback thru the steering wheel. The C/C plates tend to make a little noise too. My coilover set-up does the same thing.

Adam

WaterDR · 07-18-2005, 05:56 PM

How close is Steen Racing from you?

They have one of the best shops in the US.

Shaker242 · 07-18-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!

How close is Steen Racing from you?

They have one of the best shops in the US.

I'm 4 hours from Norfolk... but what's funny is I have family down there that I just visited last week, LOL.
Shaker

Shaker242 · 07-18-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModMotorRacer

Any time you change your stock suspension to make it lower, adjustable, etc you are going to lose a certain amount of comfort. Changing your OEM squishy rubber bushings even to a poly type will transmit road noise/feel and feedback thru the steering wheel. The C/C plates tend to make a little noise too. My coilover set-up does the same thing.

Adam

I can understand random road noise but this happens way too much and it's way too loud. I hear the noise coming from the wheel wells of the front end...

Shaker

*03gtmustang* · 07-18-2005, 09:21 PM

Give these guys a call, http://www.excessivemotorsport.net/ BTW Ive got the same noise with my MM c/c plates and strange shocks and struts along with the slight wheel shake while braking. I dont think youll be able to do anything about the noise though.

Shaker242 · 07-19-2005, 11:10 AM

I’m giving the shop one more try… I took one of the mechanics for a drive so he could hear what I was talking about first hand. So now they know… personal research is pointing to the X2 ball joints, not installed correctly, damaged or rubbing the springs – we’ll see. I’ll post the fix if there ever is one.

The rattling I had in the front did stop with the new Pro3i C/C plates… the bearing is huge compared to the UPR’s.

I will take it to Excessive Motorsport if I get no satisfaction… thanks for the recommendation 03gtmustang. I asked around and it is a very well known shop…

Shaker
:angryfire

*03gtmustang* · 07-19-2005, 01:04 PM

What shop installed this stuff?

Shaker242 · 07-19-2005, 01:20 PM

Okay, so now for the third time they couldn't find anything wrong... although they do agree that it's a weird noise and it shouldn't be happening. They greased everything under the car hoping that this will stop the noise but it's not a squeak... it really sounds like my front wheels could pop off at any moment.

I pulled off the right front tire and inspected everything I could... the noise didn't happen enough for me to locate while I had my wife move the steering wheel around (popped twice, then stopped). I did notice one odd thing, the back of my wheel seems to have a place for washer inserts which would make the wheel flat against the caliper; however, there are no washers installed. This makes me wonder if the wheel is moving around or not properly holding the rotors/calipers in place while driving. Looking this up on the Internet turned up nothing... Oh, one other thing… it was like “super easy” to pull off the lug nuts – like it wasn’t tight enough. I torque’d them to 100ft lbs/per spec (88-105lbs).

The shop is EB3 Motorsports, in Chantilly Virginia - although I hear they make great roll cages, I've lost faith in their ability to work on/troubleshoot suspensions.

Shaker
:angryfire

Shaker242 · 07-19-2005, 07:32 PM

So, anyone have washers installed behind the FR500's, that go over the wheel studs and against the rotor?

Shaker
:angry3:

Shambles · 07-20-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtmustang

Give these guys a call, http://www.excessivemotorsport.net/ BTW Ive got the same noise with my MM c/c plates and strange shocks and struts along with the slight wheel shake while braking. I dont think youll be able to do anything about the noise though.

Did you have your brakes done at the same time? It could be that your rotors might be slightly warped, hence the shaking.

Shaker242 · 07-21-2005, 01:07 PM

The noise is gone!!! I stopped by a friend’s son’s shop (who specializes in Mustangs) yesterday and within 30 seconds of driving the car he knew what was wrong. I agreed to give him the car today to check it all over. He just dropped my car back off for me…. it now sounds as quiet as the day it rolled off the dealership.

A note here; just because you do performance upgrades, doesn’t mean its “okay” for weird noises to occur. In the long run these noises could lead to more complications, physical damage and even accidents. I’d encourage everyone to rethink whether it’s really okay for their Mustang to sound and/or feel different.

Findings…
The Steeda springs were not properly in their perches, this was adjusted.
The Steeda X2 ball joints were not lubricated properly, done.
The OE sway bar was not adjusted for a lowered Mustang so it was rubbing, adjusted.

But what was making the noise? The Steeda Bumpsteer kit was improperly installed. After reviewing the instructions from Steeda it clearly states that, when using the new tie rod ends with the X2 ball joints… more spacers will be at the top of the bearing lowering the tie rod end so that it’s more parallel.

All of these adjustments have been complete and the car is awesome! Knowing that he was going to adjust the tie rod ends, I took pictures of them last night… when I get home today I will take new pictures and post them both so that you can visualize the differences.

Man… since I’ve been apart of this board, I’ve fixed my paint and now suspension as well! Nice!

Shaker

*03gtmustang* · 07-21-2005, 01:34 PM

Man, what did I tell you about that shop? Looks like they managed to install EVERYTHING wrong, even springs which is just stupid. Glad you got it all taken care of.

Shaker242 · 07-21-2005, 01:53 PM

Should have posted the name of the shop that fixed this all... FCCT (Ferrari's Customer Cars and Trucks), in Sterling, VA. You'll notice right off that they have about 5 race Mustangs parked out front!

Shaker

*madmatt* · 07-21-2005, 03:17 PM

Glad you got it fixed man. Thats good news. What a bunch of idiots...

Shaker242 · 07-21-2005, 06:08 PM

In this first picture (incorrectly installed)… you can see the ball joint clearly under the tie rod end, this should give you some idea to how high it was installed. Additionally, the insert photo shows that most of the spacers are below the bearing.

Shaker242 · 07-21-2005, 06:10 PM

In this second photo (now everything is fixed), the tie rod has dropped about two full inches... you can tell better by looking at the insert photo. The majority of the spacers are now located above the bearing, helping it keep proper alignment.

bucky · 07-21-2005, 07:48 PM

i don't have any after market suspension items myself, but under heavy braking, my wheel will jerk hard to the right, like someone grabbed it. any clue as to what that might be? one shop said it was the alignment, so i had an alignment done, and it will still happen.

Shaker242 · 07-22-2005, 03:43 AM

When you lower you car, this is one thing that will happen... the roll center is now underground and needs to be adjusted back up by doing the suspension upgrades I just had completed. Before the work, my car always pulled hard to the left on braking.

You wont need the struts, but you will need the ball joints, tie rod ends and perhaps c/c plates. The problem is your wheels don't lay flat like they should at braking... some suspension mods will allow you to adjust this.

If you haven't lowered your Mustang - then I have no idea what's causing it, you might want to take it to a couple of other shops for inspection.

Shaker

07-18-2005, 05:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	Suspension Help I need to ask for some assistance here... I recently had the Steeda X2 ball joints, Steeda Tie Rod ends (bump steer kit) added along with Tokico shocks and struts and UPR "Shark" Caster Camber plates. When I left the shop I heard a great deal of "chatter" from the front end and was told this was most likely the camber plates. Then I noticed that under hard breaking the steering wheel rocks back and forth a lot.... later on the long drive back from Georgia the front end started "popping" and "snapping"... loudly. I just got back from the shop and had my camber plates replaced and the "chatty" sound is gone; however, the popping and snapping continues and I have no idea what's going on. Now on the way home I was breaking hard and the steering wheel continues to move back and forth violently. I was under the impression that the bump steer kit should remove this rocking in the steering wheel… the shop claims that they didn’t notice any popping and snapping but I’m sure they never drove the car since it happens all the time. Also, if anyone is in the Northern Virginia area (Loudoun/Fairfax) and know of a good performance shop, do let me know… Shaker

07-18-2005, 05:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
ModMotorRacer Modular Misfit Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 329	Any time you change your stock suspension to make it lower, adjustable, etc you are going to lose a certain amount of comfort. Changing your OEM squishy rubber bushings even to a poly type will transmit road noise/feel and feedback thru the steering wheel. The C/C plates tend to make a little noise too. My coilover set-up does the same thing. Adam __________________ www.modularmisfits.com 98GT NA Auto...12.61@109 NMRA Mod Muscle #10

07-18-2005, 05:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
WaterDR Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,374	How close is Steen Racing from you? They have one of the best shops in the US. __________________ Black 2000 GT Vert: Novi-2000 with Intercooler (375rwhp @ 9 psi); Tune by Kauffmans; Roush 380R Body kit; Steeda Subframes; Steeda Strut Tower Support; Deep Dish Bullets; FRPP 4:10's; SCT 4 Position Chip with four custom tunes; Steeda CAI; C&L Pleum; BBK 75 TB; SLP Loudmouth; SLP Catted X-Pipe; Bullitt Suspension; UPR Conrol Arms; Focus Fuel Pump My Car My Email

07-18-2005, 09:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,247	Give these guys a call, http://www.excessivemotorsport.net/ BTW Ive got the same noise with my MM c/c plates and strange shocks and struts along with the slight wheel shake while braking. I dont think youll be able to do anything about the noise though. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

07-19-2005, 01:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,247	What shop installed this stuff? __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

07-19-2005, 11:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	I’m giving the shop one more try… I took one of the mechanics for a drive so he could hear what I was talking about first hand. So now they know… personal research is pointing to the X2 ball joints, not installed correctly, damaged or rubbing the springs – we’ll see. I’ll post the fix if there ever is one. The rattling I had in the front did stop with the new Pro3i C/C plates… the bearing is huge compared to the UPR’s. I will take it to Excessive Motorsport if I get no satisfaction… thanks for the recommendation 03gtmustang. I asked around and it is a very well known shop… Shaker :angryfire

07-19-2005, 01:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	Okay, so now for the third time they couldn't find anything wrong... although they do agree that it's a weird noise and it shouldn't be happening. They greased everything under the car hoping that this will stop the noise but it's not a squeak... it really sounds like my front wheels could pop off at any moment. I pulled off the right front tire and inspected everything I could... the noise didn't happen enough for me to locate while I had my wife move the steering wheel around (popped twice, then stopped). I did notice one odd thing, the back of my wheel seems to have a place for washer inserts which would make the wheel flat against the caliper; however, there are no washers installed. This makes me wonder if the wheel is moving around or not properly holding the rotors/calipers in place while driving. Looking this up on the Internet turned up nothing... Oh, one other thing… it was like “super easy” to pull off the lug nuts – like it wasn’t tight enough. I torque’d them to 100ft lbs/per spec (88-105lbs). The shop is EB3 Motorsports, in Chantilly Virginia - although I hear they make great roll cages, I've lost faith in their ability to work on/troubleshoot suspensions. Shaker :angryfire

07-19-2005, 07:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	So, anyone have washers installed behind the FR500's, that go over the wheel studs and against the rotor? Shaker :angry3:

07-21-2005, 01:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	The noise is gone!!! I stopped by a friend’s son’s shop (who specializes in Mustangs) yesterday and within 30 seconds of driving the car he knew what was wrong. I agreed to give him the car today to check it all over. He just dropped my car back off for me…. it now sounds as quiet as the day it rolled off the dealership. A note here; just because you do performance upgrades, doesn’t mean its “okay” for weird noises to occur. In the long run these noises could lead to more complications, physical damage and even accidents. I’d encourage everyone to rethink whether it’s really okay for their Mustang to sound and/or feel different. Findings… The Steeda springs were not properly in their perches, this was adjusted. The Steeda X2 ball joints were not lubricated properly, done. The OE sway bar was not adjusted for a lowered Mustang so it was rubbing, adjusted. But what was making the noise? The Steeda Bumpsteer kit was improperly installed. After reviewing the instructions from Steeda it clearly states that, when using the new tie rod ends with the X2 ball joints… more spacers will be at the top of the bearing lowering the tie rod end so that it’s more parallel. All of these adjustments have been complete and the car is awesome! Knowing that he was going to adjust the tie rod ends, I took pictures of them last night… when I get home today I will take new pictures and post them both so that you can visualize the differences. Man… since I’ve been apart of this board, I’ve fixed my paint and now suspension as well! Nice! Shaker

07-21-2005, 01:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,247	Man, what did I tell you about that shop? Looks like they managed to install EVERYTHING wrong, even springs which is just stupid. Glad you got it all taken care of. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

07-21-2005, 01:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	Should have posted the name of the shop that fixed this all... FCCT (Ferrari's Customer Cars and Trucks), in Sterling, VA. You'll notice right off that they have about 5 race Mustangs parked out front! Shaker

07-21-2005, 03:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
madmatt Traitor...lol Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 7,929	Glad you got it fixed man. Thats good news. What a bunch of idiots... __________________ RPMPlanets

07-21-2005, 07:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
bucky Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 137	i don't have any after market suspension items myself, but under heavy braking, my wheel will jerk hard to the right, like someone grabbed it. any clue as to what that might be? one shop said it was the alignment, so i had an alignment done, and it will still happen.

07-22-2005, 03:43 AM	#19 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	When you lower you car, this is one thing that will happen... the roll center is now underground and needs to be adjusted back up by doing the suspension upgrades I just had completed. Before the work, my car always pulled hard to the left on braking. You wont need the struts, but you will need the ball joints, tie rod ends and perhaps c/c plates. The problem is your wheels don't lay flat like they should at braking... some suspension mods will allow you to adjust this. If you haven't lowered your Mustang - then I have no idea what's causing it, you might want to take it to a couple of other shops for inspection. Shaker

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