Intercooler gains?
 

I am starting the install of my intercooler on sunday. It is an ebay intercooler bar&plate with 24x12x3 sized core. I also have BTI piping. Called my tuner a little while ago to ask if it would be safe to run 10psi and he said "dont do it", so im not going to. Im keeping it at 8psi. He also said that I wouldnt even need to change the pulley on it because I will only lose like 1 pound of boost at most. It hits 10psi on occasion anyways with the powerpipe. But then I told him I wanted at least 380whp and he said that would be very unlikely. He said I may only gain 15-20whp with the addition of an intercooler:shakeno:.

My car put down 350whp before and so now im just looking at maybe 370whp intercooled. Kind of dissapointing, I was looking for 400. Does this sound right? Only 20hp? He said they would have to add fuel and increase timing by 2-3 degrees. How am I ever to make 400? Do I need a cam? I am still on stock throttle body so could I gain alot with a 70mm? I want more than 20whp.....

oh yea and this is on a mustang dyno.....

up the boost!

From my understanding mustang dynos read lower? I seen a GT500 last week put down 399.2 to the wheels on a Mustang dyno :ohsnap: so you just might eclipse that 400hp mark on a dynojet? I have seen differences up to 50Hp in dynos so i take it for what its worth. As long as you get a good tune with it and your track numbers improve thats all that matters.

Generally an intercooler will see 1-3 PSI lower, 2 is the # most people use when assuming things.

If you have 8 PSI at the motor now, you will see probably 6ish PSI. Upping to a 10 PSI pulley, would get you back to the 8 PSI you had before.

Do you have a powerpipe? If not get one. The PP + air to air + a pulley should put you in the 400's

FWIW anything up to 12 PSI is ok, then cyllinder pressures get to high.

how much timing is he pulling right now on your car?

im not sure, but I know that it hardly has any timing in it from what he told me. Im pretty sure he went as low as he could go.

It has a powerpipe, others are telling me to run the 3.33 pulley, but im not sure....Its on 3.60 now

the TB and an upper plenum will do great things for you. As will proper headers. Those two mods will get you a lot closer to your 400rwhp mark.

After those, and the intercooler you'll have more cooler denser air making into the motor so you need to get a re-tune. On the upside I'll bet he's able to put 2 degrees more timing in it thanks to the lower charge temp. That will help pick the power up. If you can hit 10psi as it sits, even at high rpm, then you'll dunk down 1-2psi and it won't matter so much. Leave your current pulley on and make sure your guage is accurate. Getting the air temps down is critical to making good power under boost.

20-30 hp gain is what i would expect from a intercooler. 10 psi is pretty normal for a lot of people on the forums with a supercharged 2 valve. cars without intercoolers make peak power than all of a sudden it just plumments because of heat, once you start gettin to 170-180 intake temps timing gets yanked quick. with a intercooler there should be no drop off in power.

vortech uses the 3.33 pulley with their aftercooler kits and thats a 10 PSI pulley for that setup. if you see 10 PSI with just a powerpipe and 3.6 pulley just leave it and see how much boost you lose. if you dont loose that much than try a 3.4 pulley. your gonna need a bigger bypass i use the vortech mini race along with the bosch from the vortech kit. if you dont get one your car will surge and buck at cruising speeds, its f'ng annoying.

if you still have that bullit intake just get everything you need for the swap and throw that mug on. dont even waste your money buying a TB+plenum if you have that bullit intake. if you dont than i would definately get a 75mm and matching plenum. cant go wrong with those.

what he said... especially the intake. It's worth 10-20hp by itself on blower cars.

My intake temps on the dyno were around 190 degrees on a cold day in october. Now its 90 degrees outside and the discharge pipe gets burning hot to the touch after a little driving. Still no detonation, but I think thats because theres no timing in it.

Thats what i was thinking, vortech says its ok to run a 3.33 pulley on their aftercooled kits so why not put one on mine? I think im going to order one tomorrow. The tuner wont like it, but everyone I know runs 10psi without a problem. He'll just have to run a little less timing or something. Can I even have it tuned with the stock bosch? Trying to keep costs down a little but if I need a better BPV, Turbo XS just came out with a great replacement for $130.

I just have the upper and lower bullitt manifolds at the moment. Theyre actually sitting on my other motor im building up right now. Its getting forged bottom end and ill finish buying the rest of the parts so i can just drop it all in this winter or early next year. I think ill be fine on the stock intake for now. It has a trick flow plenum, but stock TB. I dont want to make more than 400whp because the current engine has alot of miles on it and i dont want to risk breaking it before the other one gets finished.

Perhaps your tuner is conservative or he recently had a motor blow on a dyno....or he is worried because of the age of the motor. But, 10 psi should be fine.....lots of folks run 10.

you can have your car tuned without the bigger bypass. your still going to have the compressor surge and bucking though. soon enough your going to get pissed off at your car when your cruising on the freeway.

if your building a motor then wait till that thing is done and have it tuned than. it doesnt make sense to pay for another tune just to go back and tune another a few months later...

either way a cautious tuner is a good tuner.

nah, that motor wont be done anytime real soon. I dont even have the main bottom end parts yet. Plus he only charges like $150 for a retune.

Crap, I cut the bumper support into 2 pieces! The angle grinder was a beast! Now ill be looking for a welder on sunday.....:shakeno:

that cooler was only 3 inches deep you should of had plenty of room. people fit 3.5 inch coolers with no problems...

you may also need some hose extensions for your powersteering cooler lines.

why did you have to cut? was the cooler too long of too tall?

I have to mount it to the top of the bumper support because the mounting tabs are on the top of the intercooler and thats how my piping is routed. Its not in the same spot as a paxton intercooler. More towards the front of the bumper. The I/C is about a quarter inch wider than the support so I had to cut more than 50% of it to make fit. Heres a similar install......

ouch that sucks. i would hate to install that thing.

Why would you cut into your bumper support for intercooler gains of 20hp? No thanks.
lol

thats what airbags are for :poke:

Bumper support recieves the impact of the accident to disperse the energy to cause minimal damage. With that bumper cut, you are more likely to get that engine pushed right through the firewall and bending your frame supports. Especially since it went from 100% to about 2% of full functionality. You now have a totalled vehicle that could of very well been just a bumper cover and headlights.

smart move.

taking it waay too exteme, that thin metal does nothing for a decent impact. Plus im adding bars to strengthen it back up and reusing the crash foam. Im simply replacing the metal I had cut, with the intercooler. So if I do run into something it will take out the intercooler. Intercooler is much stronger than that bumper support. It will be ok, thats what brakes are for.

oh and this is not all just for 20hp.....the intercooler will allow me to push 650whp later on.

thats what i was thinkin. he described a huge impact, i think the bumper support is for low impact protection like 5-10 MPH accidents. i dont know im not a engineer...

my bumper support took 2 cars at ~25 mph each head on and allowed the rest of my car to live with only the fenders, front bumper and hood getting reacked. The support is there for a reason and mine proved to be damned strong. Perhaps a slightly smaller intercooler next time.

In any case, the intercooler is the least of the things that'll make 650rwhp come to life. It's just one of the things that you'll need. I'd be more focused on the $10,000 engine it'll need.

does ford sell bumper supports just in case I ever want to convert to paxton or procharger I/C?