WTF is chevy doing?
#1
02-07-2007, 07:36 PM
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WTF is chevy doing?
Ok...
So, i dont get this.
So. From everything im seeing, the new Camaro, priced probably between $30k-35k for the V8 model will sport the same LS2 as in the 44k Corvette.
So, could we assume that the SS model will most likely run the same LS6 as found in the $70,000 Z06 with 505hp?
how much do they plan to sell an SS for?
The more i look at the new camaro, im trying to figure out exactly WHAT they plan to have it competing against.
Looks more than anything that the new Camaro will be competing against its own big brother the Corvette, rather than the mustang.
09 mustangs are projecting what, 350hp? with a sticker that can keep you under 30k.
any thoughts on this?
So, i dont get this.
So. From everything im seeing, the new Camaro, priced probably between $30k-35k for the V8 model will sport the same LS2 as in the 44k Corvette.
So, could we assume that the SS model will most likely run the same LS6 as found in the $70,000 Z06 with 505hp?
how much do they plan to sell an SS for?
The more i look at the new camaro, im trying to figure out exactly WHAT they plan to have it competing against.
Looks more than anything that the new Camaro will be competing against its own big brother the Corvette, rather than the mustang.
09 mustangs are projecting what, 350hp? with a sticker that can keep you under 30k.
any thoughts on this?
#3
02-07-2007, 07:48 PM
Whats not to get, the current GTO has the same motor as the vette and they dont compete, hell when the old camaros where out they had pretty much the same LS1 as the vettes. A guy looking to buy a vette isnt going to want a heavier and less agile camaro.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
#4
02-07-2007, 08:03 PM
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Whats not to get, the current GTO has the same motor as the vette and they dont compete, hell when the old camaros where out they had pretty much the same LS1 as the vettes. A guy looking to buy a vette isnt going to want a heavier and less agile camaro.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
Yeah, the die hard vette owners only want vettes, but vettes are not just a niche car. There are a lot of family orientated guys in thier 40's who go through a midlife crisis and buy a sports car. The non-enthusiest does not reallt discern the differences between a muscle car and a sports car. All they are going to see is a 400hp and 450hp car, one of them is over 10,000 less in cost.
i mean, hell, how many people have referred to your mustang as a sports car? i hear it a lot.
weather or not they intend for them to compete, i dont see how you couldnt see them as compeditors seeing as how most folks dont know much about cars and all they see are the hp ratings, they will then decide the corvette is just too damn expencive when they can get a car with almost the same power for a nice chunk of money.
vettes are only 44k msrp. that puts them well within reach of the upper-middle and even middle class who have been financially responsible enough to find them in a situation they can afford such a vehicle.
If we were talking about LAMBO's and FOR GT's then yeah, people who can afford Lambo's live in a FAR FAR different tax bracket than most people here, and yeah, they would rather spend 400,000 for a lambo which is not quite as fast as the 150,000 Ford GT. But for them price doesent matter as much.
For a good amount of corvette owners, who i bet a good amount of them are in the income bracket of 75k-100k that price difference could definatly be a deciding factor.
While the vette will have more refined braking, handling, drivetrain, comforts, panels, etc, etc, i ave a feeling a lot of people dont know enough about cars to really appreciate everything else that comes with a vet, and a decent amount of people will decide it is a better financial decision to save 10-15,000 and sacrifice 50hp.
and if somone comes in lookin for a vette, but settle on a new camaro because it is cheaper and close to the same power, well, that IS competition weather they intended it or not. They diddnt pull a sale from another company, they sold a cheaper camaro instead of the vette and diddnt make as much out of the whole deal
#5
02-07-2007, 08:04 PM
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I agree with you there. My buddy's ol man haas a 1970 challanger. God damn if the new ones dont look just like it, but a bit more modern.
#8
02-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Even though they have basicly the same engine as the Vette they are not the same.Different internals and other thing's like the tune.Z28's have had a Vette motor in them for year's but just not exactly like the Vette motor.
Did that make sense? LOL
Did that make sense? LOL
#10
02-07-2007, 08:44 PM
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yeah it makes sence.
Think about this though. How many people call mustangs sports cars?... a LOT!
and how many people are going to have enough car knowledge to see past these critical elements, LS2, 400hp, $10-15K less. 50 hp short (estimates online of the 09 vette coup)
People who are educated about cars will know why to spend the extra cash on a vette. However, i would be highly suprised if 50% of vette owners even know how to change thier oil.
The corvette was a great Midlife Crisis car and i would be willing to bet that the camaro takes over the corvettes sales to the midlife crisis phenomenom.
#11
02-07-2007, 08:51 PM
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I would imagine that the price increase of vettes would be similar as in increasing faster than inflation, which means they start to get to the point where the normal average upper-middleclass (sub 80k) a year could not really afford one very easily unless they were real careful about finances and made lots of great decisions.
But back when vettes came out, werent they the "Sports" car that were supposed to be affordable by most people?
Meaning, they have become more of a playtoy for the lower-upperclass with the higher increased cost vs inflation, which i'll bet will make many americans opt for a Camaro, Looking it as a far better deal and still gain entrance to the 400 club when that midlife crisis kicks in...
When i get my midlife tho, ill probably still opt to go with a cobra terminator.
#12
02-07-2007, 09:08 PM
The camaro is too little too late. by the time it comes out, the mustang will have worn it's retro fan craze and updated its looks to be more modern, while still holding some retro look(kinda like the update from 98 to 99, enough to notice, but not a dramatic makeover) and with the camaro's mullet-like following, I can't see GM selling them very well.
#13
02-07-2007, 09:11 PM
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The camaro is too little too late. by the time it comes out, the mustang will have worn it's retro fan craze and updated its looks to be more modern, while still holding some retro look(kinda like the update from 98 to 99, enough to notice, but not a dramatic makeover) and with the camaro's mullet-like following, I can't see GM selling them very well.
and the new camaro is ****ing hideous
OK! I retract everything, the camaro wont put so much as a scratch on the corvettes market.
Glad that is settled!
#15
02-07-2007, 09:51 PM
One thing I'm happy to see is the HP wars going on between the American car companies! I wasn't exactly alive during the last HP wars so it's pretty cool to me. The bad part is my mach is becoming slow! ha ha ha....NO BOOST. The only think I don't like is the fact that most of the new muscle cars are fat azz pigs. Why don't they figure out a way to reduce the weight of these cars?
I've thought a lot about this because I usually get a new car every few years, but I'm more than likely skipping the entire S197 line up and waiting for the next generation of stangs....and hopefully picking up a special edition one, like a 2010 bullitt or mach (I made up the year).
I've thought a lot about this because I usually get a new car every few years, but I'm more than likely skipping the entire S197 line up and waiting for the next generation of stangs....and hopefully picking up a special edition one, like a 2010 bullitt or mach (I made up the year).
#16
02-08-2007, 05:29 AM
I dunno, seems a bit rediculous to me. I would be very suprised if the camaro diddnt pull some of the market away from the vettes.
Yeah, the die hard vette owners only want vettes, but vettes are not just a niche car. There are a lot of family orientated guys in thier 40's who go through a midlife crisis and buy a sports car. The non-enthusiest does not reallt discern the differences between a muscle car and a sports car. All they are going to see is a 400hp and 450hp car, one of them is over 10,000 less in cost.
Yeah, the die hard vette owners only want vettes, but vettes are not just a niche car. There are a lot of family orientated guys in thier 40's who go through a midlife crisis and buy a sports car. The non-enthusiest does not reallt discern the differences between a muscle car and a sports car. All they are going to see is a 400hp and 450hp car, one of them is over 10,000 less in cost.
i mean, hell, how many people have referred to your mustang as a sports car? i hear it a lot.
weather or not they intend for them to compete, i dont see how you couldnt see them as compeditors seeing as how most folks dont know much about cars and all they see are the hp ratings, they will then decide the corvette is just too damn expencive when they can get a car with almost the same power for a nice chunk of money.
weather or not they intend for them to compete, i dont see how you couldnt see them as compeditors seeing as how most folks dont know much about cars and all they see are the hp ratings, they will then decide the corvette is just too damn expencive when they can get a car with almost the same power for a nice chunk of money.
Ivettes are only 44k msrp. that puts them well within reach of the upper-middle and even middle class who have been financially responsible enough to find them in a situation they can afford such a vehicle.
If we were talking about LAMBO's and FOR GT's then yeah, people who can afford Lambo's live in a FAR FAR different tax bracket than most people here, and yeah, they would rather spend 400,000 for a lambo which is not quite as fast as the 150,000 Ford GT. But for them price doesent matter as much.
For a good amount of corvette owners, who i bet a good amount of them are in the income bracket of 75k-100k that price difference could definatly be a deciding factor.
If we were talking about LAMBO's and FOR GT's then yeah, people who can afford Lambo's live in a FAR FAR different tax bracket than most people here, and yeah, they would rather spend 400,000 for a lambo which is not quite as fast as the 150,000 Ford GT. But for them price doesent matter as much.
For a good amount of corvette owners, who i bet a good amount of them are in the income bracket of 75k-100k that price difference could definatly be a deciding factor.
The midlife crisis guy wants a vette, not a camaro which like the mustang tends to be seen as a budget performance car, whereas the vette is a flat out sports car.
IWhile the vette will have more refined braking, handling, drivetrain, comforts, panels, etc, etc, i ave a feeling a lot of people dont know enough about cars to really appreciate everything else that comes with a vet, and a decent amount of people will decide it is a better financial decision to save 10-15,000 and sacrifice 50hp.
and if somone comes in lookin for a vette, but settle on a new camaro because it is cheaper and close to the same power, well, that IS competition weather they intended it or not. They diddnt pull a sale from another company, they sold a cheaper camaro instead of the vette and diddnt make as much out of the whole deal
and if somone comes in lookin for a vette, but settle on a new camaro because it is cheaper and close to the same power, well, that IS competition weather they intended it or not. They diddnt pull a sale from another company, they sold a cheaper camaro instead of the vette and diddnt make as much out of the whole deal
I mean going by your logic would want to save the 100K and buy a Shelby instead of a Ford GT since the GT only has 50hp more. There is much more to a car than the HP rating. The GT would destroy the Shelby in everything. I would image the new vette would destroy the camaro in any type of race.
#17
02-08-2007, 06:32 AM
If you think about it, muscle cars are known for their displacement. Their engines are typcially bigger than most cars out there. With that in mind, those cars's engines are going to weigh more than others, therefore making the need to increase the weight. If you put a 5.0 V8 in a honda CRX, I can't imagine the amount of understeer you'd get in that thing. You'd never be able to control it out of turns. So instead, they just make the entire car big so it balances out the weight of the engine/transmission. And that's why smaller imports have smaller engines too
#19
02-08-2007, 09:21 AM
I agree with jjtgiants. Its nice that Ford is uping the horsepower on the mustangs, but if you keep adding weight then it almost cancels itself out. Theres no reason a 500hp mustang should weigh almost 4,000 lbs. The vettes and vipers can keep their weight down to around 3100-3200 and thats with a 8.3l V-10 for the viper.
Tclark22- yes the c6 zo6 has the ls7
Tclark22- yes the c6 zo6 has the ls7
#20
02-08-2007, 09:23 AM
If you think about it, muscle cars are known for their displacement. Their engines are typcially bigger than most cars out there. With that in mind, those cars's engines are going to weigh more than others, therefore making the need to increase the weight. If you put a 5.0 V8 in a honda CRX, I can't imagine the amount of understeer you'd get in that thing. You'd never be able to control it out of turns. So instead, they just make the entire car big so it balances out the weight of the engine/transmission. And that's why smaller imports have smaller engines too
In my mind ford is going to have to keep the weight down on the mustangs in order for it to somewhat compete with some of the new high power muscle cars coming online in the next few years.
#23
02-08-2007, 11:09 AM
I'm a fan of the vette, just not the vette drivers. This is probably one of my favorite vettes.
Click here to see Video
Click here to see Video
#24
02-08-2007, 09:41 PM
Haul ass on regular gas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA and Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,149
Whats not to get, the current GTO has the same motor as the vette and they dont compete, hell when the old camaros where out they had pretty much the same LS1 as the vettes. A guy looking to buy a vette isnt going to want a heavier and less agile camaro.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
The Camaro since the LT1 and LS1 cars have always been 50hp or so up on the mustang and usually a few grand more. So this is no different.
Most likely the Camaro will have a low 20s priced V6, a high 20s low 30s Z28 with 400hp, and a low 40s SS with 500hp. Very similar to the Mustang lineup.
But at this point its all speculation.
Besides the new mustang and camaro designs all suck compared to the Challenger. That car is bad *** looking.
The camaro and corvette are not competitors. Two totally different cars. There is much bigger difference between the two than simply the hp. The camaro is a mucsle car, while the vette is a sports car.
#25
02-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Haul ass on regular gas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA and Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,149
#26
02-08-2007, 09:51 PM
Haul ass on regular gas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA and Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,149
One thing I'm happy to see is the HP wars going on between the American car companies! I wasn't exactly alive during the last HP wars so it's pretty cool to me. The bad part is my mach is becoming slow! ha ha ha....NO BOOST. The only think I don't like is the fact that most of the new muscle cars are fat azz pigs. Why don't they figure out a way to reduce the weight of these cars?
I've thought a lot about this because I usually get a new car every few years, but I'm more than likely skipping the entire S197 line up and waiting for the next generation of stangs....and hopefully picking up a special edition one, like a 2010 bullitt or mach (I made up the year).
I've thought a lot about this because I usually get a new car every few years, but I'm more than likely skipping the entire S197 line up and waiting for the next generation of stangs....and hopefully picking up a special edition one, like a 2010 bullitt or mach (I made up the year).
#27
02-08-2007, 09:54 PM
Haul ass on regular gas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA and Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,149
I agree with jjtgiants. Its nice that Ford is uping the horsepower on the mustangs, but if you keep adding weight then it almost cancels itself out. Theres no reason a 500hp mustang should weigh almost 4,000 lbs. The vettes and vipers can keep their weight down to around 3100-3200 and thats with a 8.3l V-10 for the viper.
Tclark22- yes the c6 zo6 has the ls7
Tclark22- yes the c6 zo6 has the ls7
#28
02-09-2007, 07:17 AM
The panels even on a normal car are thin gauge steel so its not going to do much for support either.
#29
02-09-2007, 07:41 AM
Haul ass on regular gas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, CA and Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,149
why didnt they just use urathane its light not like fiberglass but its stronger and very flexable
#30
02-09-2007, 09:19 AM
I agree with you on that, but if your getting a sports car it's not for safety. Thats what a volvo is for. I'm not gonna buy a 500hp car for it to not perform like a 500hp car and handle like crap.