whitethunder46

I NEED ALLLLLLLLL OPINIONS!
Ok guys, heres my options;:

I can get a D-1 Procharger with a sheet metal intercooler for under 4000 bux. I've heard of a lot of problems with the self contained oil system so i'm kinda weary on this system.
Novi 2000 tuner kit for 3000 bux. Still need injectors, fuel pump, etc. This would be non-intercooled, for now . Would run NO MORE than stock pulley size because of intercooling problems.
Vortech S-trim or SQ. Again, no more than stock pulley until intercooler.

I've found vortech systems for as little as 2000 bux used. The intercooler that would be purchased would be a Paxton A/A Intercooler.

Is the S-trim/SQ trim vortech capable of making 600-650RWHP like the Novi 2000? A built block will be installed eventually, I just want to keep room to add power with out upgrading head unit, this is why I'm getting the D-1 procharger, not the P-1sc.

*A power-pipe would be included with all systems.

MY GOAL: To buy a system that is CAPABLE of putting around 600 HP to the wheels, to spend NO MORE than 4,250 dollars on ALL parts, andd.... MUST BE INTERCOOLED

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MachGT

The S-trim will probably not be enough, that will be pushing the limits of the blower.

I'd definitely get the Novi 2000 though. It gives you tons of headroom to grow. I'd also skip the intercooler and go with methanol injection. You can add an intercooler later on if you like.

The Prochargers just aren't very efficient. They come stock with an intercooler because of that.

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Gotstang??



2001 5-speed GT with a few personal touches

BrentK

Dont get procharger...If your goal is 600+ either get the paxton or t trim

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whitethunder46

I'm still open to ALL options, but I'm very much so leaning toward the D-1 Procharger. Maybe I should of mentioned that when I re-build my engine, ported PI heads and blower cams will also be added. I've seen some 12PSI D-1 pushing 500hp.

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foncarelli

Get the Novi.

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whitethunder46

Ok fine, Novi 2000 is actually cheap.
I found the tuner kit for 2,850 dollars.
42#injectors and lightening 90mm Mass air meter - 350 bux
Walbro 255lph pump - 125 bux.
Is there anything else i need? I can already get a dyno tune.
How much boost does the stock pulley on the Novi 2000 put out.
I wanna be around 380 at the wheels, before intercooling. I'll just put that off till next year for now.

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foncarelli

Sounds good, exempt the Walbro. You need a Focus SVT pump. Randy will be the man to see.

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Shambles

be a man, drop a 03 cobra block in there and put a whipple on it

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Chris "Shambles" Chamblee

stanger00

they are right s trim wont make that much power.

get the novi i would of but ran out of money. the novi will throw down some good numbers if you want to have 600 hp later on just go ahead and get the 03-04 cobra tank with dual pumps. my svt focus pump needed a kenne bell boost a pump to keep up with my blower. very uncommon for my application. its a good pump just cant keep up with a 400 horsepower automatic mustang but its more reliable then the walboro.

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MustangMike

Why are you guys saying that an S trim won't support 600hp?? I have a friend with an 02 Gt making 625rwhp, with a forged stroker block 305ci ported heads, p-51 intake manifold ModMax Stroker Cams, full exhaust, custom SCT tune, Frount mount intercooler, pushing 19psi on the S trim...so it can be done..

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04 Mustang Gt Nitrous Express Wet Plate kit @150,UPR intake, BBK 75mmT/b, BBK Plenum, BBK Longtubes, VRS X , Magnaflow mufflers, 3.73 gears, SVT Focus fuel pump, Diablosport programmer, UPR Tubular K member w/ Eibach coilovers 14" 150lb springs (Front), Moroso trick drag springs (Rear), UPR Camber plates, stage III Competition clutch, Moser 31 Spline axles, Auburn Differential, subframe connectors. Lakewood shocks/struts and ported heads and stg III cam awaiting install.

whitethunder46

Ok, yea. the novi 2000 is a sweet blower with a LOT of future potential.

i want my engine to be VERY reliable. It will prolly be close to 2 years before I can really beef up my engine, forged internals, new block, blower cams, etc.

With my mods listed in my sig, how much power do you think I would be putting down to the rear wheels with the stock pulley on the NOVI 2000.
How much would this jump up to if added a Paxton A/A intercooler?

I'm worried that if I add an intercooler to the Novi 2000 I could be flirting with too much power on my stock block, but at the same time the interooler would help with longevity.

keep in mind that my car is an AUTOMATIC!

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2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD

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stanger00

ill put that theory to the test when i have enough money to buy a long block and a cobra tank. its gonna have to wait a long while though ill be overseas for at least 2 years.

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BrentK

I would say paxton, non i/c, on a stock block you would be in the 350-380 range...If you get the i/c if you are probably going to be close to 400 which should be the max for the block..If you are over just get it detuned alittle

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whitethunder46

i've found to performance sites selling the Novi 2000 w/ cooler TUNER KIT for under 3000 bux. I'm goin with this setup for sure.

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BRANSDAMAN

I understand the vortech and procharger debate, but the novi? come on, the novi makes alot less power at the lower boost levels. The procharger stomps them all for power increases at lower boost, although the vortech isnt far off. The KB is a nice unit but you lose the usefullness of the blow in many cases bc it enages to early, not to mention the mods necessary to to install the KB make it not worth it to many. The big draw back with the vortech is it's air to water aftercooler, that whole premise basically is a pain and the install cost is much higher, with a loss in power at normal operating temperatures.
I read the vortech rebuttle pdf, and that is a joke. Any company that starts their research bashing the competition, isn't being objective. I feel that many people promote the novi from a cost standpoint, don't be fooled to pull the power you want your going to have to build your motor, as compare to the vortech, procharger and KB are safe on a stock block from 8-12 lbs - although 12 is pushing it. It all basically comes down to money with the cheapest horsepower per buck come down to the vortech and the procharger, in which the procharger wins bc you can pull more horsepower from the same boost level, reliably on stock block. My car is a daily driver, plus im in college so im carefull with my money.
The procharger is by far the better deal, and you see that when all* cost factors are reveiled. All superchargers make alot of horsepower at insane boost levels, that is not a fair judgement, vortechs and prochargers will smoke novi's at 8, 10 and even 12lbs, but the novi makes up for that later on the boost range. This is all coupled with the fact that the procharger has a 3 year warranty at 12lbs... none of the others do. Also many people are running the stage 1 p1sc - big mistake - buy the p1sc stage 2 or d1sc - the difference from stage 1 to 2 is about 50 horsepower at the same boost level and the price difference is about $200. Many other companies compare the stage 1 to their product, don't make the same mistake. KB is bad ass for fun (torquey) - the vortech is great for low boost daily driving, for you own personal enjoyment, but not best for the strip - the novi, I wouldnt get the novi, quality issues and the additional cost of a rebuild (fine if you want to spend that much, but again the other companies espically procharger will blow it out of the water with a rebuild; d1sc, f-series) then finally the procharger p1sc stage 2 3 core @ 10lbs- best for daily drivers with strip interests, cheaper installation costs, more reliable- 500 hp is possible with bolt ons but the stock motor is rated at 450, basically dont go over 10lbs - the more power u get ot of that the better.

whitethunder46

I agree with just about everything you said. But, first off, I think a lot of people will be defending the Novi, and as one. It is extremely reliable, I don't know why you say it wasnt. Totally agree that it is a great strip blower because of the late rising of boost. Agree with the Vortech/procharger but the procharger has an intercooler for a reason, because it's just not that effective. If you can afford a Paxton A/A intercooler with a Vortech, I think most would agree this would make a PERFECT street and ever now and then strip blower. The problem with the self contained Procharger's is they're no reliable at all!! It's a game of risk, you may have gotten a good or you may have gotten a horrible one and leak seals all over the place. Some VERY reputable dealers, such as Tim over at miles per hour, won't even carry Procharger's because of their lack of durability. Also, you can't really go with a D-1sc right off the bat with a stock block. I've talked to procharger and other dealers and it's difficult to spin a D-1 at only 8 or even 10 psi. You should really be doing no less than 12 to get the most out of it.

My final set-up is goin to be a Vortech T-trim or S-trim, focus pump, 75mm accufab TB/plenum, miles per hour power pipe, 42#, spark plugs, and 90mm maf. I'm trying to do as much research as possible with the T-trim because I'm wondering how efficient it can be at only 8psi, similar to the problem of the D-1.

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2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD

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MachGT

The air/water intercooler does a great job cooling the air on my setup.

Water has 4 times the heat capacity of air so it is a very efficient way to remove heat from the air. And it's awesome at the track as you can dump ice into the water tank and just about supercool the air!

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Gotstang??



2001 5-speed GT with a few personal touches

BRANSDAMAN

I still don't know where your getting unreliablity reports on prochargers, the problems that you speak of ive only seen from people buying used prochargers and incorrect setups. Your probably right about the d-1sc at low boost but it is very simular to the p1sc stage 2 which is at home on mustangs - I'd like to know if youve heard about them as far as reliablity, procharger says that they corrected problems that were in the stage 1 with the stage 2. As far as the intercoolers go - water type do have more apptitude for overheating, since the water does in fact absorb more heat - it also retains it- however 95% of the time and both vortech and procharger agree - that they essentialy have negliable differences with all things considered, with that in mind that air to air cooler is a cheaper and easier install which wins my vote. However I can't concide that the procharger is any less efficent that the vortech its really the same deal just the procharger (stage 2) is larger. Also the self contained oil system is inherently more efficent bc it doesnt get hot oil from the motor, or the deposits in it - also it doesnt have to use energy to move the oil from the pan to the blower. I would like to see if anyone used a vortech blower with a procharger intercooler and see what happens. I say what i did about the novi bc of the 3 mustangs ive seen with them, 3 of them have had problems.

BRANSDAMAN

Vortech suplies a an after cooler with their setup also, so that not grounds to say its inefficent just bc it comes with a better setup. All superchargers are going suck without some means of extra cooling (if u hope to make decent power), also the procharger makes more power under the same boost as the vortech with the aftercooler - thats not less efficent. The arguement for vortechs reliablity is that they make a billion of them and have been for ever, plus they make factory motors - so that pretty good. Too bad GM wont put a decent transmision with them, but who cares they are ugly anyway - MUSTANGS KICK ASS!

whitethunder46

At least we can agree that mustangs do in fact kick ass.
The water/air aftercooler works well for strip, but A/A better for street.
my car is 99% street.
I would like to see a dyno graph of a 99-04 GT with full exhaust and then a procharger P-1sc-2 and then a Vortech S-trim both at 8 and 10 psi.
I'm not really expecting to find one, but I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the difference was even 10RWHP. (Both with there respective intercooler.) I wasn't sure if the p-1sc stage 2 was a totally different head unit, i thought it was simply stage 2 because it has a 3 core intercooler, not just 2.
As far as self contained oil, yes it's definately nice, but you gotta change it every 5000 miles, and you have to take off the head unit. While, the self contained oil is a plus, it loses that plus with the hassel of having to basically in a way dissasemble the system. I've rarely heard of a P-1sc-2 running anything higher than 14psi. I've seen S-trim at like 16-17 psi.

One thing I've noticed with procharger, I'm not saying this as fact but something I've simply noticed by looking at many sigs. Why does a procharger seem to not make quite as much torque as say a vortech/paxton. At the same HP, a procharger seems to make maybe 5-10 ft/lbs of torque less than the other two. Just something i've kinda picked up on.

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