Procharger or Saleen

stevemainian · 05-31-2006, 05:30 PM

Well im buying my blower probably in mid june-july. Ive been shopping around, and my original choice was the stage 2 procharger(8-10psi, 3 core intercooler, all that good crap) for around $4200. But I also stumbled across the Saleen blower for the 99-04 for just about the same price as the stage II procharger. The saleen kit comes complete with everything, just like the procharger kit, with intercooler and heat exchanger, and 30 lbs injectors, and a computer reflash.

Since their both the same price im in a bind. The saleen is a roots blower, and the procharger is a centri. I hear nothing but positive feedback about procharger on this board, but I havent heard a darn thing about the saleen kit.

Which would be the better choice to go with on a 03 GT, stock internals. I DO have the intentions of completley redoing the engine in the future for increased boost, so also keep that in mind with your answer.

Thank you.

RedFirevert04GT · 05-31-2006, 05:40 PM

Go with the Roots style if the money is all the same.

WaterDR · 05-31-2006, 05:46 PM

Before buying a Procharger, talk to tuners. I bet most will tell you to not buy this blower. It is very inefficient and have problems with leaks. If you buy a Centri blower, buy a Novi or a Vortech. They are much better blowers. BTW, roots style blowers are not better then Centri style. They are just different.

spike_africa · 05-31-2006, 07:19 PM

Procharger and upgrade to the D-1 now. Its only another few hundred and well worth it once you beef up the bottom end you can push 600's with it.

I for one dont like roots blowers i would rather have a centry blower and steeper gears and leave off the line harder without wheel spin (as much). But that is me.

I can totaly see how a roots is great for a street car but i always think of the track, when it comes to mods.

WaterDR · 05-31-2006, 07:59 PM

Dustin, Procharger makes the most inefficinet blower on the market. I have a great, scientific article written on them which I will dig up. They also break...a lot. My tuner has had some customers return as many as three of these pupies due to problems.

stevemainian · 05-31-2006, 09:15 PM

No one has any input on the Saleen kit?!?!?!?!?!?

whitethunder46 · 05-31-2006, 09:39 PM

There's a reason you don;t here much about saleen. It simply doesnt put down the power people want.

I'm assuming your looking at series IV. (Series 2 is a COMPLETE waste.)

Not sure of your mods, but a series IV may give you 350RWHP if your lucky.
Here's a JLT kit for the series IV. https://www32.ssldomain.com/jlttruec...year=2003-2004

Obviously you can jump up the boost, but even at 13 psi (which is sadly about the max for Saleen blowers) you can only expect to see 380RWHP. not to mention you shouldnt run higher than 10psi on stock block. I've seen guys change out to an aftermarket reservoir, pulley change, JLT CAI, entire inlet manifold changed, and they still don't reach 400RWHP.

You will NOT see 400RWHP from a saleen blower with out some cams. I've done a lot of looking into this for I'm doing a Saleen clone.

Now don't get me wrong, the Saleen series IV is a GREAT blower and durable, just doesnt have much growing potential. If you really want a roots blower, get a KB 1.7. At 4200 bux u got now, your almost there anyways. The KB you can see 500RWHP.

Another thing the series II saleen blower is an Eaton (M90 I believe) and the series IV is a Whipple.

With all that said, I vote for a KB 1.7 for another 500 bux.
any more questions?

matrixpuba · 06-01-2006, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!

Before buying a Procharger, talk to tuners. I bet most will tell you to not buy this blower. It is very inefficient and have problems with leaks. If you buy a Centri blower, buy a Novi or a Vortech. They are much better blowers. BTW, roots style blowers are not better then Centri style. They are just different.

my tuner says the procharger make more across the board in power. it is a little harder to tune do to the blow through setup but if they are good, they can do it. alot of people say the procharger is inefficient because of the veins being straight. that is what makes the broad torque curve. go look at some dyno charts of vortech, paxton, and procharger and compare. i bet the procharger wins.

SlickSilverVert · 06-06-2006, 09:54 PM

Agree, if anything they are all equal. I have heard negative about novi's - but they have a high growing potential - like the d1-sc and the T-trim - the T is the lowest vortech grade I would go and the D-1sc is well worth it ( some time you wont even have to pay more) - I want a novi myslef - but I wonder about the quality - which is dumb bc they are both made by vortech. but the procharger is widly regarded as the "best" blower and the track times show it. - But basically when you get into brands as good as all 3 of them are - its a question of preference and money - the prochargers also make better track blowers bc they have steeper step up ratios ( meaning they're faster) - I wish I could afford a turbo setup - but there I hear that turbo guys have alot of dependability problems. _ Its looking like - the d1sc or the novi is going to be for me - they both can make 30lbs and about 1000hp - the t-trim falls short of them by about 200 hp & I plan to get crazy with this and build my motor one day 2.
BASICALLY - WHICH STICKER DO YOU LIKE BEST???
P.S. - not the k.b. - not 1.7 anyway... ever

Teal_Beast · 06-07-2006, 02:27 AM

Procharger

Vortech

Same car, unfortunatly diffrent engines, the first one was on my single port 3.8l (145/215)

the second was on my split port engine (190/225)

1Nasty96 · 06-07-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT's#1Customer!

Dustin, Procharger makes the most inefficinet blower on the market. I have a great, scientific article written on them which I will dig up. They also break...a lot. My tuner has had some customers return as many as three of these pupies due to problems.

I agree the P1 is the most inefficient blower on the market. I had one. Although, if you take the D1 into consideration, it's just awesome.:clap:
Don't bother with a P1 or Saleen. Go with a D1 if you want a Procharger, or SQ series blower from Vortech. If you want the grunt of a Roots blower, save your money and get a Kenne Bell.:foot:

01GTBlown · 06-07-2006, 10:59 AM

You might check miles per hour, i believe they have some guys running the Saleen system...

Shaker242 · 06-09-2006, 01:37 PM

I don't know... i have the P1SC Stage 2 Procharger kit with 3 Core sheet metal front mount intercooler @ 12PSI... it's freaking awesome. They come with a three year warranty and MUST be installed by a reputable installer that can dyno tune your ride. There's a nice comparison between the Procharger and the Kenne Bell in this month's Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords.

My feeling is that regardless with what unit you go with, find a good shop (ask EVERYONE) to do the install and tune. Find out what warranty comes with your unit and how the shop stands behind their install & tune. Kiss whatever car warranty you have left... hit the gas, and dust all those freaking imports!

... now that i think about it, there are a few things to keep in mind, one... you may require a spark plug change (one degree cooler), i'd swap the thermostat with a 180degree type (I'd recommend "Be Cool"), run Synthetic motor oil only since it's more durable against the heat about to be generated and have your traction control disabled as it leans out the engine and removes ignition advance, if can do it... run 75% water and 25% coolent instead of the 50/50 mix. Course in the summer you could just use pure Redline Water Wetter and distilled water (read directions for mixure).

Hope you have fun with whatever SC you go with...

Ghostalker · 06-09-2006, 03:15 PM

I didnt know people purposely installed roots on there cars, less they get one cheap for there mach off of an 03 cobra that traded his for KB or a WHIPPY!?
Twin screw > roots, duh =/

SlickSilverVert · 06-09-2006, 09:12 PM

thats just un-informed non sense - the blowers arnt more or less effeicent that one another - BTW how can it be less effeicent and make more power? - it can't. (that report is garbage) Anyway thats not the point - you want to buy a blower you can grow with - so get a novi 2000, d-1sc - or a T-trim vortech - they are all equally ranked blowers - the vortech just doesnt max out quite as high as the other 2 - but they are ALL good - the k.b is good but not the 1.7 - however i wouldnt recommend them bc the centri actually is much more effiecent - cooler - and faster, also costs about 1000-3000 less depending on your k.b. competitor. With all things considered the d-1sc is the bestg blower - reliable - powerful - trusted - about 4k installed - can take you 900+ hp - also has air-to-air intercooler - much better than air-to-water for street cars. the low line vortechs like v1-v2 sq wont take you where you want to go so don't waste your money.

WaterDR · 06-09-2006, 09:37 PM

Seems like a lot of strong opinions when it comes to blowers. I guess that is why there are soo many different options.

You just need to decide what is best for you and what you can afford. Are twin scews cool? Sure, but dam, they cost a lot more money and for what? Cool looks?

I also would not get too wrapped-up around the axle on dyno numbers. Why? Well, because any blower can get the same level of power within reason. Just because a Procharger on a car got 390 rwhp and a Vortech got 370 rwhp does not mean the Procharger is better. Much of the performance is in the tune AND in how much boost.

If I could get 380 rwhp at 9 lbs of boost, with non-agreesive timing with a Novi-2000, that is better to me then running 12 psi, leaner tune, and more timing to get 390 rwhp with a Vortech....just as an example. In this example, the Novi-2000 setup would be a much better and safer setup then the Vortech.

PS - I make the above statement for comparison purposes only...not to claim that a Novi is better then a Vortech. I only do this to make a point and make sure people don't place too much weight on dyno results when all the facts are not known.

stevemainian · 06-11-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaker242

run 75% water and 25% coolent instead of the 50/50 mix.

Thats the worse idea I have ever heard.

Shaker242 · 06-12-2006, 05:52 AM

If you think about it... antifreeze doesn't give you much benefits in the summer. And this didn't come from me; but rather something that Muscle Mustangs & FF recommended. I run Redline/Distilled Water in the summer and if the car goes out during the winter I'll flush it and put in 75/25... after testing it's still good to -25 degrees.

Regardless... it's water that cools your motor not antifreeze.

Your in VA BEACH?! That's cool... i lived there for 10years while in the military. Now I'm up in Leesburg, VA but hoping to ride down to visit my family that's in the area in a couple weeks. Are there any car shows going on down there?

Teal_Beast · 06-12-2006, 05:54 AM

yup, water cools better then anti-freeze.

antifreeze just . . well makes sure it doesnt freeze

budthachud · 06-12-2006, 05:02 PM

http://www.themustangnews.com/tech/st-0106_salsc.htm

i was looking at the saleen, too...
kinda sorry numbers.

CCM · 06-12-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaker242

If you think about it... antifreeze doesn't give you much benefits in the summer. And this didn't come from me; but rather something that Muscle Mustangs & FF recommended. I run Redline/Distilled Water in the summer and if the car goes out during the winter I'll flush it and put in 75/25... after testing it's still good to -25 degrees.

Regardless... it's water that cools your motor not antifreeze.

Your in VA BEACH?! That's cool... i lived there for 10years while in the military. Now I'm up in Leesburg, VA but hoping to ride down to visit my family that's in the area in a couple weeks. Are there any car shows going on down there?

You're in Leesburg? So am I.

02Stang · 06-12-2006, 07:26 PM

I don't know how or why people say prochargers are not efficiant. I have a procharger stage 1 kit on 8psi and i made 393 rwhp and 401rwtq and that is on a verry safe tune. I have raced cars with vortech's and novi blowers and they can't seem to trap higher than a 110-111 trap speeds and these guys are on 10-12psi if not more. Again I have 8psi and my trap speed has never been below 113-115 miles per hour on my street tune, On the race tune the car has been in the 118-120 miles per hour range and this is all achieved with the blower o/r x-pipe and cat-back. So how ineficiant are prochargers?

spike_africa · 06-12-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02Stang

I don't know how or why people say prochargers are not efficiant. I have a procharger stage 1 kit on 8psi and i made 393 rwhp and 401rwtq and that is on a verry safe tune. I have raced cars with vortech's and novi blowers and they can't seem to trap higher than a 110-111 trap speeds and these guys are on 10-12psi if not more. Again I have 8psi and my trap speed has never been below 113-115 miles per hour on my street tune, On the race tune the car has been in the 118-120 miles per hour range and this is all achieved with the blower o/r x-pipe and cat-back. So how ineficiant are prochargers?

your numbers are crazy for a 8psi ati kit. That kicks ass i love procharger.

05-31-2006, 05:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
stevemainian I8URVTEC Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 193	Procharger or Saleen Well im buying my blower probably in mid june-july. Ive been shopping around, and my original choice was the stage 2 procharger(8-10psi, 3 core intercooler, all that good crap) for around $4200. But I also stumbled across the Saleen blower for the 99-04 for just about the same price as the stage II procharger. The saleen kit comes complete with everything, just like the procharger kit, with intercooler and heat exchanger, and 30 lbs injectors, and a computer reflash. Since their both the same price im in a bind. The saleen is a roots blower, and the procharger is a centri. I hear nothing but positive feedback about procharger on this board, but I havent heard a darn thing about the saleen kit. Which would be the better choice to go with on a 03 GT, stock internals. I DO have the intentions of completley redoing the engine in the future for increased boost, so also keep that in mind with your answer. Thank you.

05-31-2006, 05:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
RedFirevert04GT Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Va Beach, Va Posts: 336	Go with the Roots style if the money is all the same. __________________ '04 Red Fire vert. KB 1.7L intercooled 9lb with all the trimmin's & Big Boost kit w/ Switch Chip. Mac catted h-pipe & Mac catback. 411RWHP / 414 RWTQ.

05-31-2006, 05:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
WaterDR Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,370	Before buying a Procharger, talk to tuners. I bet most will tell you to not buy this blower. It is very inefficient and have problems with leaks. If you buy a Centri blower, buy a Novi or a Vortech. They are much better blowers. BTW, roots style blowers are not better then Centri style. They are just different. __________________ Black 2000 GT Vert: Novi-2000 with Intercooler (375rwhp @ 9 psi); Tune by Kauffmans; Roush 380R Body kit; Steeda Subframes; Steeda Strut Tower Support; Deep Dish Bullets; FRPP 4:10's; SCT 4 Position Chip with four custom tunes; Steeda CAI; C&L Pleum; BBK 75 TB; SLP Loudmouth; SLP Catted X-Pipe; Bullitt Suspension; UPR Conrol Arms; Focus Fuel Pump My Car My Email

05-31-2006, 07:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
spike_africa Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 7,191	Procharger and upgrade to the D-1 now. Its only another few hundred and well worth it once you beef up the bottom end you can push 600's with it. I for one dont like roots blowers i would rather have a centry blower and steeper gears and leave off the line harder without wheel spin (as much). But that is me. I can totaly see how a roots is great for a street car but i always think of the track, when it comes to mods. __________________ Dustin 2002 GT Mustang 5-Speed Drag Radials,Sprayed,Powershifted WOOO HOOOO!

05-31-2006, 07:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
WaterDR Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,370	Dustin, Procharger makes the most inefficinet blower on the market. I have a great, scientific article written on them which I will dig up. They also break...a lot. My tuner has had some customers return as many as three of these pupies due to problems. __________________ Black 2000 GT Vert: Novi-2000 with Intercooler (375rwhp @ 9 psi); Tune by Kauffmans; Roush 380R Body kit; Steeda Subframes; Steeda Strut Tower Support; Deep Dish Bullets; FRPP 4:10's; SCT 4 Position Chip with four custom tunes; Steeda CAI; C&L Pleum; BBK 75 TB; SLP Loudmouth; SLP Catted X-Pipe; Bullitt Suspension; UPR Conrol Arms; Focus Fuel Pump My Car My Email

05-31-2006, 09:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
stevemainian I8URVTEC Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 193	No one has any input on the Saleen kit?!?!?!?!?!?

05-31-2006, 09:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
whitethunder46 Always Detailin' Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,556	There's a reason you don;t here much about saleen. It simply doesnt put down the power people want. I'm assuming your looking at series IV. (Series 2 is a COMPLETE waste.) Not sure of your mods, but a series IV may give you 350RWHP if your lucky. Here's a JLT kit for the series IV. https://www32.ssldomain.com/jlttruec...year=2003-2004 Obviously you can jump up the boost, but even at 13 psi (which is sadly about the max for Saleen blowers) you can only expect to see 380RWHP. not to mention you shouldnt run higher than 10psi on stock block. I've seen guys change out to an aftermarket reservoir, pulley change, JLT CAI, entire inlet manifold changed, and they still don't reach 400RWHP. You will NOT see 400RWHP from a saleen blower with out some cams. I've done a lot of looking into this for I'm doing a Saleen clone. Now don't get me wrong, the Saleen series IV is a GREAT blower and durable, just doesnt have much growing potential. If you really want a roots blower, get a KB 1.7. At 4200 bux u got now, your almost there anyways. The KB you can see 500RWHP. Another thing the series II saleen blower is an Eaton (M90 I believe) and the series IV is a Whipple. With all that said, I vote for a KB 1.7 for another 500 bux. any more questions? __________________ supernissans.net 2001 Mustang GT - Saleen Replica - SOLD 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0S http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3022272

06-06-2006, 09:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
SlickSilverVert Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	Matter of taste Agree, if anything they are all equal. I have heard negative about novi's - but they have a high growing potential - like the d1-sc and the T-trim - the T is the lowest vortech grade I would go and the D-1sc is well worth it ( some time you wont even have to pay more) - I want a novi myslef - but I wonder about the quality - which is dumb bc they are both made by vortech. but the procharger is widly regarded as the "best" blower and the track times show it. - But basically when you get into brands as good as all 3 of them are - its a question of preference and money - the prochargers also make better track blowers bc they have steeper step up ratios ( meaning they're faster) - I wish I could afford a turbo setup - but there I hear that turbo guys have alot of dependability problems. _ Its looking like - the d1sc or the novi is going to be for me - they both can make 30lbs and about 1000hp - the t-trim falls short of them by about 200 hp & I plan to get crazy with this and build my motor one day 2. BASICALLY - WHICH STICKER DO YOU LIKE BEST??? P.S. - not the k.b. - not 1.7 anyway... ever

06-07-2006, 02:27 AM	#10 (permalink)
Teal_Beast V6 Power Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 944	Procharger Vortech Same car, unfortunatly diffrent engines, the first one was on my single port 3.8l (145/215) the second was on my split port engine (190/225) __________________ '94 v6 Mustang Custom twin turbo kit by Justin @ vmp Split port engine swap from a 2000 v6 mustang 388whp 435wtq Want to go fishing in the Florida Keys? http://www.rustyiv.com/

06-09-2006, 01:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	I don't know... i have the P1SC Stage 2 Procharger kit with 3 Core sheet metal front mount intercooler @ 12PSI... it's freaking awesome. They come with a three year warranty and MUST be installed by a reputable installer that can dyno tune your ride. There's a nice comparison between the Procharger and the Kenne Bell in this month's Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords. My feeling is that regardless with what unit you go with, find a good shop (ask EVERYONE) to do the install and tune. Find out what warranty comes with your unit and how the shop stands behind their install & tune. Kiss whatever car warranty you have left... hit the gas, and dust all those freaking imports! ... now that i think about it, there are a few things to keep in mind, one... you may require a spark plug change (one degree cooler), i'd swap the thermostat with a 180degree type (I'd recommend "Be Cool"), run Synthetic motor oil only since it's more durable against the heat about to be generated and have your traction control disabled as it leans out the engine and removes ignition advance, if can do it... run 75% water and 25% coolent instead of the 50/50 mix. Course in the summer you could just use pure Redline Water Wetter and distilled water (read directions for mixure). Hope you have fun with whatever SC you go with...

06-09-2006, 03:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ghostalker BOLO 4 ME Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 2,284	I didnt know people purposely installed roots on there cars, less they get one cheap for there mach off of an 03 cobra that traded his for KB or a WHIPPY!? Twin screw > roots, duh =/ __________________ Ghosty is in need of some mods...

06-09-2006, 09:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
SlickSilverVert Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 29	a little truth thats just un-informed non sense - the blowers arnt more or less effeicent that one another - BTW how can it be less effeicent and make more power? - it can't. (that report is garbage) Anyway thats not the point - you want to buy a blower you can grow with - so get a novi 2000, d-1sc - or a T-trim vortech - they are all equally ranked blowers - the vortech just doesnt max out quite as high as the other 2 - but they are ALL good - the k.b is good but not the 1.7 - however i wouldnt recommend them bc the centri actually is much more effiecent - cooler - and faster, also costs about 1000-3000 less depending on your k.b. competitor. With all things considered the d-1sc is the bestg blower - reliable - powerful - trusted - about 4k installed - can take you 900+ hp - also has air-to-air intercooler - much better than air-to-water for street cars. the low line vortechs like v1-v2 sq wont take you where you want to go so don't waste your money.

06-09-2006, 09:37 PM	#16 (permalink)
WaterDR Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,370	Seems like a lot of strong opinions when it comes to blowers. I guess that is why there are soo many different options. You just need to decide what is best for you and what you can afford. Are twin scews cool? Sure, but dam, they cost a lot more money and for what? Cool looks? I also would not get too wrapped-up around the axle on dyno numbers. Why? Well, because any blower can get the same level of power within reason. Just because a Procharger on a car got 390 rwhp and a Vortech got 370 rwhp does not mean the Procharger is better. Much of the performance is in the tune AND in how much boost. If I could get 380 rwhp at 9 lbs of boost, with non-agreesive timing with a Novi-2000, that is better to me then running 12 psi, leaner tune, and more timing to get 390 rwhp with a Vortech....just as an example. In this example, the Novi-2000 setup would be a much better and safer setup then the Vortech. PS - I make the above statement for comparison purposes only...not to claim that a Novi is better then a Vortech. I only do this to make a point and make sure people don't place too much weight on dyno results when all the facts are not known. __________________ Black 2000 GT Vert: Novi-2000 with Intercooler (375rwhp @ 9 psi); Tune by Kauffmans; Roush 380R Body kit; Steeda Subframes; Steeda Strut Tower Support; Deep Dish Bullets; FRPP 4:10's; SCT 4 Position Chip with four custom tunes; Steeda CAI; C&L Pleum; BBK 75 TB; SLP Loudmouth; SLP Catted X-Pipe; Bullitt Suspension; UPR Conrol Arms; Focus Fuel Pump My Car My Email

06-12-2006, 05:52 AM	#18 (permalink)
Shaker242 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 121	If you think about it... antifreeze doesn't give you much benefits in the summer. And this didn't come from me; but rather something that Muscle Mustangs & FF recommended. I run Redline/Distilled Water in the summer and if the car goes out during the winter I'll flush it and put in 75/25... after testing it's still good to -25 degrees. Regardless... it's water that cools your motor not antifreeze. Your in VA BEACH?! That's cool... i lived there for 10years while in the military. Now I'm up in Leesburg, VA but hoping to ride down to visit my family that's in the area in a couple weeks. Are there any car shows going on down there?

06-12-2006, 05:54 AM	#19 (permalink)
Teal_Beast V6 Power Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 944	yup, water cools better then anti-freeze. antifreeze just . . well makes sure it doesnt freeze __________________ '94 v6 Mustang Custom twin turbo kit by Justin @ vmp Split port engine swap from a 2000 v6 mustang 388whp 435wtq Want to go fishing in the Florida Keys? http://www.rustyiv.com/

06-12-2006, 05:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
budthachud Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: idaho Posts: 57	http://www.themustangnews.com/tech/st-0106_salsc.htm i was looking at the saleen, too... kinda sorry numbers. __________________ 2003 10th Anniversary SVT Convertible Bone stock except for K&N Filter

06-12-2006, 07:26 PM	#22 (permalink)
02Stang 1fastGT Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 249	I don't know how or why people say prochargers are not efficiant. I have a procharger stage 1 kit on 8psi and i made 393 rwhp and 401rwtq and that is on a verry safe tune. I have raced cars with vortech's and novi blowers and they can't seem to trap higher than a 110-111 trap speeds and these guys are on 10-12psi if not more. Again I have 8psi and my trap speed has never been below 113-115 miles per hour on my street tune, On the race tune the car has been in the 118-120 miles per hour range and this is all achieved with the blower o/r x-pipe and cat-back. So how ineficiant are prochargers? __________________