JackThe Ripper

Anybody out there think about retirement and if it is even possible for the new generation workforce?

I look at the housing market, tons of forclosures and overpriced worthless property, consumers are scared to make big commitments. Stocks are declining which is doing heavy damage to 401k's and people are literally losing tens of thousands every month.

people are now looking at cashing in thier 401k's to eliminate debts because of a general lack of belief that thier 401k will ever actually be worth anything. Its a sad state of affairs honestly.

One3 of my goals for this year is to eliminate all debt aside from my mortgage. The scary thing is i know what my house would appraise for, but i doubt i could sell the house for anything more than 30k below appraisal.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

sometimes i feel that it doesent matter what i do, that i will be working pretty much untill i die of old age.

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WaterDR

Great questions.....I think about it a lot.....

First off, you can't look at the past few years and predict the future. The economy and housing costs is cyclical. We have had a complete role reversal with Canada the past few years. They are now laughing at us as their economy is booming. They were in the tanker a few years ago.

I feel bad for folks in their 20's these days. First off, jobs don't pay shit. I will give you an example. My first job after graduating college and leaving the Navy (4 years) paid $65k the first year (that was in 1994). I had total benefits....paid for nothing and bought my first house when I was 25. It was a 2500 square foot, 3 year old house. I had no help from parents.....none. The house was $150k.

How many of you guys at that age now can say that? Most of you live at home with parents and many of you will for a long time because you are in debt up to your asses in college loans, houses are expensive, and medical insurance is high. It is REALLY hard to get started these days.

The average college student graduates $45k in debt now and I bet starting salaries have not hardly risen at all since 1994. In fact, adjusted for inflation and other costs, they have most likely decreased.

The housing market is simply adjusting from years of people borrowing against them to pay for life styles that they should not be living in the first place. Newsflash....if any of you have a car loan more then 5% of your gross income, your are way too much in debt for a car. These are not my rules, but from financial planning experts.

Houses have decreased, but there are some signs that some areas have improved. I own a second house near Mystic, CT. It appraised for $20k more last month then it did 2 years prior AND appraisers are now more conservative.

Some of you may be now upside down on your house.....so what? So long as you can pay the mortgage, continue paying it. You have to live somewhere, just like you need to drive a car. Sooner or later, things will come back....first slowly, then this will all seem like a distant memory.

There is one saving grace. There is a major labor shortage looming on the horizon. I just had a meeting with our CEO today. We are a $5 Billion in annual sales and the company has identified one of our biggest challenges to meeting our future growth requirements as manning.

The experts are predicting that labor shortages will ultimately drive labor costs up especially in certain job classifications. This will actually create situations where some women will leave the workforce because their husbands now make enough, creating even a bigger problem.

The way the situation gets resolved is:

1 - Outsource overseas
2 - Automation
3 - Flexible workplaces

All three factors will and already are taking place.

All in all, I remain hopefully optimistic, but I think the next few years won't be our best.

My 401k is down 8.5% this year. Not good, but far from a crisis. Let's hope it stays that way.

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SnTBakosFinest

Dunno. I'm not old enough to know much of this stuff..

Luckily I got myself into something where my retirement is set (Not in a 401K)
I'm 19, by 22-23 I'll make enough to buy a house.

I'll work some long hours, and it'll be some intense manual labor, but many guys have pulled it off and done it well.

The union I work for has set up their own retirement plan, which will actually pay me better then a 401K.

Unfortunately, I only started out at $14 something an hour, but I have full benefits. By the end of it I'll make something like 42 an hour locally, but I plan on going up to San Jose and working, which will increase my benefits through their local, pay is about 35-40 dollars more there, and theres big raises in the near future for the entire union.

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Dream

last week i just sold 410 shares in BCE. (Bell Canada Enterprises)

need school money

JackThe Ripper

Damn, 65k back during the great depression?

snap. lol

Yah i really lucked out in many ways. I was horrible in highschool, so i joined the USAF and they taught me telecom, my first job out of the AF was for about 55k a year, and i have steadily risen every year for the past 7 years.

A lot off my co workers are also ex military, some of my co workers actually got degrees in telecom, and it doesent earn them a dime more or help on thier resume whatsoever. However they have 30-40 thousand in student loans to pay off.

The house i have while not nearly as well designed and constructed as your new home or lances home is still pretty darn nice for the size and age it is. I have about 2,300 sqft ranch style, but im paying 225,000. i have been paying 4 years now and i still owe 215,000. Ugh


As far as going to college for 4 years and breaking 50k a year.... GOOD LUCK. Aint gonna happen 99% of the time, most college grads with bachelors are lucky to break 35k on thier first job.

Im a big advocate of technical schools and trade schools. Im not much for taking classes of stuff non-related to the goal, i do believe in a well rounded education, but i also think it is something you can achieve yourself without the requirements of taking 18th century russian literature classes.

Honestly, unless yer gonna be a doctor, laywer, or politician, college doesent seem like that great of an idea anymore, not enough pay in it.

One of my closest friends and godfather of my son, started oput working at the same company i am at as a customer service rep (phone jockey) and now he is a tech on the transport side of the house, he will break 60k this year, full medical and dental benefits, 401k, flex spending, etc, etc. has no college education.

My buddy creigan, no college education, just got his CCNA and got picked up by IBM as a customer service rep (he is basically the bitch of thier large scale companys, he is a direct interface for only 3 major customers), he will break 50k this next year, he has less than 1 year of schooling for his CCNA.

My buddy Justin, went to work for verizon a while back in orange county, breaks 65k-70k a year, he has his CCNA and the next level up, been doping it now for 7 years. No college

Myself, i broke 80k and i have no college, just military training on telecommubnications, my co workers all average 50-80k a year and very few have college. Most of us have been here for years, ive been with this company for 7 years and i know i can get another job at the drop of a hat in almost any telecom company out there. (mostly because they expect a lot more out of us here)


Then i have a friend Jen, 4 year degree, maybe gertting 30k a year as a techer
My friend Ian, will maybe break 40k next year, 4 year degree as well

my brother, bachelors degree, took him 4-5 years to break the 50k mark, i still make more than him i believe and he is a project manager at dell. lol.


All in all, college has the "POTENTIAL" to pay out a lot more later down the road, but honestly, i would rather make bank now, and STILL be able to go to college, or even swap to another technical dicipline in less than a year and know i will be making a buttload of money


college never made sence to me. takes 4 years to graduate, you have 35,000 in debt afterwards, and probably wont break 50 grand within the next 10 years.

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00blkstanggt

I agree with Jack to a certain degree. I think they need to rethink the college structure. I feel there would be a higher success rate if you went to college for two years and just focused on your major, but colleges want to rape you with costs and take all your money. I'm not done with college yet, but I'm working on it. I'm making decent money right now with a good company, good boss, and only room to grow. I have full benefits that are paid (benefits of working for a major hospital), don't have to clock in, can work from home when I feel like it.

Anyways, I think pay depends a lot on the job and location. I know you can make good money with a company without a degree, but sometimes you can only advance so far. Teachers in my area are starting between like $45k-52k.My fiance's father doesn't have a degree and makes 6 figures a year plus commision and does the most sales for his company, but he will probably never become a VP or anything like that because of the degree. Sometimes I see the point of having one and other times I don't. It definitely depends on what you want to do with your life. It's much harder these days to get houses and all that. My fiance and I are lucky to be buying our first house at 26 years old. Of course all you bastards outside of California get bigger houses for the money, but I'll be satisifed with owning.

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I somewhat agree, however I'm currently in the market for a career change and it seems like my Bachelor's degree isn't enough anymore. I should have stayed in school and went for my masters. Now I have a mortgage and bills so I can't afford to go back to school.

I was very lucky my parents could afford to put me through college and when I graduated I had 0 debt, which is rare these days. I have mixed feelings about tech/trade schools. I think they are great if a person is dead set on what they want to do, but if they decide to move out of that specific career and enter into another career while mingling with a pool of candidates that have the same experience, but went to a major 4 year University it's going to be hard for them to compete in my opinion.

Things are tough for people right now. All I know is that I've had it with my job and I'm ready to leave Cali.

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JackThe Ripper

it IS pretty direct sometimes on the job role that will be had with tech training, i dont think that somone with a 4 year degree in this type of work has much of an edge though. my experience (while not overly vast as ive been in the same place for a while) is they are more concerned about working experience than degrees.

College definatly offers a more rounded education, but i think unless you are aiming for a masters a person would be more financially secure with more immediate monetary compensation with more specialized technical training.

Im not against going to college, but i dont think i will ever do much more in college than take occasionall classes that interest me.

as far as growth in the career field which somone mentioned, the most harm of lacking a degree will be if somone is trying to get into management of some sort.

Right now i work in maintenance, i fix network troubles and such. The only places i could go would be into engineering, which might be nice but it is easier to get laid off there... i could go into the test + turnup group where they do the initual service builds, however, that is more of data entry. I think maintenance is about the most challanging for my career field...

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WaterDR

Don't put your eggs in the Union basket. Beware believing ANYONE that takes money from you.

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WaterDR

College is not for everyone, nor should it be. But don't let a few examples teach you to go against the odds. It is statistically proven that the more education you have, the more money you make. Also, many jobs that offer solid wages now, offer no room for advancement later.

Keep in mind while trade schools have good potential, the averages fro college grads are diluted by some people with stupid-ass majors etc...

As far as income, I would rather have tech degree from a solid program, then a theater or english degrees from the University of Sloan Island - lol.

BUT, if you have a solid undergrad degree from a good school and an MBA, the average income is well over 100K for these folks all day long.

In all honestly, I think we will see some parity between college grads and trade school degrees in the next few years as the labor force dwindles, BUT professional people such as myself also can earn money in different ways. For example, besides my salary, we have agressive bonus programs, advancement, 401k with a match, and a full company paid pension. Not to mention, that as a manager, I will be eligible for stock options in a few years. AND, I have never belonged to a union.

Look, PLEASE do not think for a minute that I knocking the trades. No way....no how. I think this is a great way to go for lots of people. I wish I had more hands-on experience and I would promote it for my kids if it makes sense for them.

Whatever you do, if you want to make money, you need a skill. No matter if it is using your head, or your hands. Most people nee to do both.

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3.9s beat gts

kindda need those 30-50k guys to keep american rolling
slota long posts here didnt read all of it

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PColav6

Nothing wrong with the military either.

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JackThe Ripper

they have been giving me stock options since i signed up with the company, lol.

Yah 401k matched to 5% gross, medical, dental, vision, flex accounts, life insurance, bonus programs, etc.

Some tech jobs like mine CAN break 100k a year, the base pay maxes at 37.50 per hour, add 7,000 shift differential and some 1.5 OT and 2.5x holiday pay, it can be done with just a few extra hours a week once you cap out which i have not yet done on pay. I still have several raises to go before i hit 37 bucks. lol

a lot of tech-school jobs though probably wont make it much past 50k a year though and yeah, they dont offer much room for growth.

However, not all tech jobs are equal, that is fore sure. And anyone who is expecting to break 50k a year doing any vocational tech job, well, just take what those commercials of the potential earning power with a grain of salt, my job is a rare exception, and you wont see any commercials to learn this stuff during maury povich on daytime tv

The job im in, well, damn. Lets put it this way, most telecom companys will use 1 major switching platform, and they have thier techs specialized to learn either the proactive or reactive side. And it takes literally YEARS for a tech to get up to speed on just one aspect of the system. They have many different groups that handle different roles.

Well, here, i have to work both sides of not only one, but FOUR class 5 switching platforms plus our class 4 VOIP switching network, as well as the entire signalling systems that get them all to work together. Throw in our Voicemail systems, conferencing systems, 1-800 network, and all of that, i preform what was normally about 15-20 different jobs at AT&T, MCI, QWEST, ICG, etc....

And i RULE at it. Lol. Im GLAD we get to work on everything, i love the total control i have of a trouble and the fact i dont have to rely on other people to provide bits of information. Ive been doing telecommunications now for 12 years and i STILL learn something new every day. Most of the people who cant handle it have been weeded out a long time ago and i work with the best group of telecom techs in the world, hands down, no doubt. Every time we hire a new hotshot from qwest or at&t or from another company they come in thinking they know thier shit (which they do, that one part of it), then after seeing what all we work on they usually get extremly overwhelmed and many times throw in the towel within a month. lol.


It is definatly one of the hardest technical jobs out there, it doestn matter how smart or educated you are, you really have to have a very strong talent for fixing things. And that is WHY we can eventually hit the triple digit mark.

Same goes for IP networking, those guys can also hit 6 digit income.


But a LOT of the stuff you see on daytime TV, dental tech, x-ray tech, etc, etc, they claim tons of money but most of them start out at 40k a year and end at 50k a year with no real advancement.

im lucky in that aspect, i could switch to engineering, or tier2, or whatnot, and even go higher, however i really enjoy what i do here and dont wanna stop yet. Plus, layoffs usually trim the fat in other departments, our maintenance department is pretty lean as it is. lol. better job security.


as far as management opportunities, we have some techs who eventually became directors and such, personally, if i cannot have full controll of everyone then i dont want to be responsible for anyone but myself. lol

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JackThe Ripper

sorry i get long winded sometimes. believe it or not, a lot of my stuff is shortened up from the origional, i can nail out about 130 words per minute (not the best accuracy obviously lol) and next thing i know i have 3 pages of crap that needs to be shortened. lol

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jjtgiants

That's not what your wife says! ha ha ha

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WaterDR

Funny, all you need to do is live in a neighborhood for a while to see who makes what. Over the years, this what I have learned.

Low-priced neighborhoods are generally full of unemployed people and various blue-collar folks. As housing prices increase, the blue color jobs jobs pay more, and then you begin to sprinkle the neighborhoods with white color folks.

As housing prices increase further, there is a higher percentage of while color positions and professional positions and you eventually get to the point where you won't find any single blue color person. I can't say this fact, but it is my observation after owning houses for nearly 20 years.

Then, a funny thing happens. As prices get higher, you begin to run into a different crowd.....those that simply just have money. Some inherited, while many others own their own businesses and it does not matter if it is a large mechanical contractor or a law firm. You begin to return a bit more to a mix of blue vs white backgrounds.

As far as stock options are concerned, you should be wary to work for a company that gives options to everyone. Options are cheap to give away....but it floods the market with stock and devalues it. Solid companies limit this option to a select group....usually those in potion to increase the value of the shares. When these people benefit, so do all the other share holders which are often low-paid positions too with stock in their 401ks. Good companies by and large, do not give options to the workforce. If they do, they are probably limiting the options they give to managers to prevent having too many. This si good or bad depending on you vantage point.

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WaterDR

Here you go, these are real figures:

If you have a HS degree ONLY, you will earn $1.2M in a lifetime
If you have a bachelors degree, you will earn $2.1M in a lifetime
..................Masters degree, .....................$2.5M..............
..................PHD............................. .........$3.4M..............
..................Prfessional Degree...................$4.4M.............

These are averages naturally.

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JackThe Ripper