Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Page 151

na svt · 07-25-2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakin_bakin

need to figure out what timing cover im going to need....

Any 5.4 4v cover will work.

shakin_bakin · 07-25-2008, 01:39 PM

ohh well thats good to know

guess i can just get any random front cover then as long as its 5.4 4valve... thats good cause the navi covers are alot cheapre then the GT500 covers, and SUpercar GT covers...

ibanezsvo · 07-27-2008, 06:27 PM

[quote=myillwillinc;343186]how about a roll call for everyone on where they stand on thier projects?

Hello all,

I've never posted on this site before but I've asked illwill a couple of questions. I started my project ... well i bought the engine block on 2/26/08 and since then I've spent just at 11k:
block cleanup work
Port & Polish Heads, beehive valve springs...
manley H-beam rods and pistons
Sean Sullivan Cams
Flywheel, Oil pump
harmonic balancer
T56 kit, clutch and shifter good to 550ft.lbs
i figure in about 5k more i can have the long block and use accessories from my GT.
I still have a lot of questions (too many), but now my answers are gaining ground on questions... I have pictures but i dont know if anyone is interested in seeing them or if i can post them?

myillwillinc · 07-27-2008, 07:44 PM

post up pics...... here is what i did this weekend:

not 5.4 related much but i'm waiting on the headers and intake.....

r3dn3ck · 07-28-2008, 07:15 AM

I'd love some pics....

Mine are all in the site in my sig. I haven't snapped any pics lately what with the car down at <mysterious shop name> getting the headers fiddled with, a new Focus pump and 30lb injectors and a bunch of other work done.

I figure there's probably at least another couple weeks in all that work plus some more after a few more weeks to fit the production headers and get the final dyno tune on it.

96blackgt54 · 07-28-2008, 02:01 PM

[quote=ibanezsvo;344146]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

how about a roll call for everyone on where they stand on thier projects?

Hello all,

I've never posted on this site before but I've asked illwill a couple of questions. I started my project ... well i bought the engine block on 2/26/08 and since then I've spent just at 11k:
block cleanup work
Port & Polish Heads, beehive valve springs...
manley H-beam rods and pistons
Sean Sullivan Cams
Flywheel, Oil pump
harmonic balancer
T56 kit, clutch and shifter good to 550ft.lbs
i figure in about 5k more i can have the long block and use accessories from my GT.
I still have a lot of questions (too many), but now my answers are gaining ground on questions... I have pictures but i dont know if anyone is interested in seeing them or if i can post them?

Well, post up!

Welcome and good to see your project taking way.

96blackgt54 · 07-28-2008, 02:09 PM

I've been thinking of droping the x-pipe(unknown brand) and replacing it with an H-pipe. I though if I go through the trouble why not just do the headers too, but that would mean I would have to take out the engine. I have pondered on replacing the stock 2v oil pump with the 4v one.

how are the headers coming along? Will they fit the sn-95's with/witout K-member? Is this <mysterious shop name> on top of their game? Give us more insite.

00blkstanggt · 07-28-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

I'd love some pics....

Mine are all in the site in my sig. I haven't snapped any pics lately what with the car down at <mysterious shop name> getting the headers fiddled with, a new Focus pump and 30lb injectors and a bunch of other work done.

I figure there's probably at least another couple weeks in all that work plus some more after a few more weeks to fit the production headers and get the final dyno tune on it.

R3D, once you get the car all finalized, let me know, I will break out the digital video camera and get some sounds clips and whatnot of the badass ride.

ibanezsvo · 07-28-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

I'd love some pics....

Mine are all in the site in my sig. I haven't snapped any pics lately what with the car down at <mysterious shop name> getting the headers fiddled with, a new Focus pump and 30lb injectors and a bunch of other work done.

I figure there's probably at least another couple weeks in all that work plus some more after a few more weeks to fit the production headers and get the final dyno tune on it.

I made a few calculations (following guidelines) and I estimate that I will need 36lb injectors... does that seem right? Can anyone give me a reality check for that? (somewhere between 34 and 36,... leaning closer to the 36 side for most variations of the calc.) also, side questions;... for a naturally aspirated application, (est. 500hp max @ flywheel) should I get a fuel pressure regulator? or would it just be more hassel for the tuner shop?

ibanezsvo · 07-28-2008, 08:37 PM

[quote=96blackgt54;344231]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezsvo

Well, post up!

Welcome and good to see your project taking way.

Ok, I stayed up way past my bedtime... but all your prop.s motivated me... basically these are just pictures of the block once i got it in from the junk yard, after its cleaned up and someof the stuff to go on it. I will find the pictures of the navigator the block came out of and pictures of the new (really cool blue) k-members and camshafts and anything else soon.

Its good motivation to know others are in on this too and are supportive. It makes me feel good about the (newly calculated) 12.5k I've spend thus far and the 7k to go to completion (estimated) .. i'm starting to think i should have just bought a GT500 crate engine. Anyone else getting out cheaper than this? I just dont think I could make it any less expensive, without sacraficing easy power.
P.S. is there anything more American than Torque?

(4.16" stroke!! YEAH)

Thanks R3DN3CK ... i had no idea how to get a place to put the pics, and I didnt think I was supposed to post them here on this board... + i didn't know how.. so i used the same domain you're using.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3126409

na svt · 07-29-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96blackgt54

I though if I go through the trouble why not just do the headers too, but that would mean I would have to take out the engine.

No need to remove the motor to install headers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96blackgt54

I have pondered on replacing the stock 2v oil pump with the 4v one..

That would not be a good idea. Why would you want to do that anyway?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezsvo

I made a few calculations (following guidelines) and I estimate that I will need 36lb injectors... does that seem right? Can anyone give me a reality check for that? (somewhere between 34 and 36,... leaning closer to the 36 side for most variations of the calc.) also, side questions;

You'll be okay with 30lbers. It is a 2v right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezsvo

... for a naturally aspirated application, (est. 500hp max @ flywheel) should I get a fuel pressure regulator? or would it just be more hassel for the tuner shop?

An adjustable FPR will only cause problems and not add any power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezsvo

Sean Sullivan Cams

Do you mean SHM (Sean Hyland)?

r3dn3ck · 07-29-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na svt

.....a bunch of good advice.....

to elaborate:

For longtubes you usually drop the k-member but the motor stays in the car. (they're coming along nicely. It's a tough process. We're still not totally sure about them fitting with a stock k-member without some minor clearance cuts. That's the single biggest hurdle.)

A high volume pump could suck the pan dry at high rpm and isn't really needed anyway with a properly assembled (read toleranced) motor. A standard stock unit should be fine. There's a lot of debate about cryo-treated pump gear durability so do your homework if you start to think that's for you. I'd probably ask turbox2 and na_svt on that... they've probably had some experience there.

30's are fine deep into the 300+rwhp range. I don't think a 2v NA 5.4 will move enough air to need anything bigger. I have them, not that that means much. If you're doing the navigator 4v heads then you need to decide on your intake/cam/exhaust choice so you get the right squirters. 4v's can make some nasty power, enough to need bigger than 30lbs injectors. This is usually the last thing you buy before you begin the install.

FPR on a 99+ would imply a conversion to a return style fuel system, which you don't need until you're making substantially more power than any NA street motor has a likelihood of seeing. On a <98 car, meh... depends. Probably not for you.

ibanezsvo · 07-29-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na svt

No need to remove the motor to install headers.

That would not be a good idea. Why would you want to do that anyway?

You'll be okay with 30lbers. It is a 2v right?

An adjustable FPR will only cause problems and not add any power.

Do you mean SHM (Sean Hyland)?

No, this is the 5.4L DOHC InTech engine out of a 2001 Navigator. So can you re-confirm or deny my 36lb calculations?

Didnt know the FPR would be more hassle, good to know ... I'll just keep it out.

And yeah, I've been on the phone with Sean Hyland and Sullivan Performance so much lately I get them mixed up...

ibanezsvo · 07-29-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

to elaborate:

A high volume pump could suck the pan dry at high rpm and isn't really needed anyway with a properly assembled (read toleranced) motor. A standard stock unit should be fine. There's a lot of debate about cryo-treated pump gear durability so do your homework if you start to think that's for you. I'd probably ask turbox2 and na_svt on that... they've probably had some experience there.

30's are fine deep into the 300+rwhp range. I don't think a 2v NA 5.4 will move enough air to need anything bigger. I have them, not that that means much. If you're doing the navigator 4v heads then you need to decide on your intake/cam/exhaust choice so you get the right squirters. 4v's can make some nasty power, enough to need bigger than 30lbs injectors. This is usually the last thing you buy before you begin the install.

FPR on a 99+ would imply a conversion to a return style fuel system, which you don't need until you're making substantially more power than any NA street motor has a likelihood of seeing. On a <98 car, meh... depends. Probably not for you.

I bought the standard FRPP high volume one ... i think its used in the Cobra R, I plan on buying a windage tray (also Cobra R style) to keep the oil build up off the crank to increase hp and to ensure enough stays in the pan... but if you think this could still be a problem i can (originally planned) upgrade the oil pan to a 7qt pan??? - by the way, I'm so very appreciative for your thoughts... everyone.

And most of the block is already ready... the Long Block will be complete by the end of next friday... So i'm getting ready to buy the Sullivan performance Fuel Injection system with coils, and fuel rails, and intake manifold all in a package and I figured I'd buy the injectors while I was at it... Is that a solid plan?

Per my previous quote... I do have the 5.4L 4V engine, so I'm expecting 480 realistic hp at the engine. .. so again can anyone confirm or deny 36lb ?

na svt · 07-29-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibanezsvo

No, this is the 5.4L DOHC InTech engine out of a 2001 Navigator. So can you re-confirm or deny my 36lb calculations?

Didnt know the FPR would be more hassle, good to know ... I'll just keep it out.

And yeah, I've been on the phone with Sean Hyland and Sullivan Performance so much lately I get them mixed up...

I honestly don't see 480rwhp in your future with navi heads unless they ahve soem serious work done to them; they just don;t flow that well. However, at that level you would need 36s.

Cams and intake; none of the SHM cams will work well with the Sullivan. Cam selection for a Sullivan intake'd motor is crucial, get it off by a little and power will suffer a lot.

I recently spec'd some cams for an n/a 10.5 to 1 compression, 322ci motor with a Sullivan, it made 490rwhp at only 7280rpm. It also had some very good heads with oversized valves. We could have gotten a lot more hp out of it but the owner wanted to run nitrous so there was no need to spin it any higher. This motor also made great torque but it had 03/04 heads and a 4.6 Sullivan intake which has smaller ports than the 5.4 version. Your motor will need to be spun higher due to the larger ports of both the heads and intake to make the same power.

With that, what cams/compression?

myillwillinc · 07-29-2008, 11:44 AM

as for the oil pump questions, the 2v is just fine for most apps. if you want alittle more out of it, siple put a stiffer spring in it and it will increase your oil pressure and help out alittle more.

ibanezsvo · 07-29-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na svt

I honestly don't see 480rwhp in your future with navi heads unless they ahve soem serious work done to them; they just don;t flow that well. However, at that level you would need 36s.

Cams and intake; none of the SHM cams will work well with the Sullivan. Cam selection for a Sullivan intake'd motor is crucial, get it off by a little and power will suffer a lot.

I recently spec'd some cams for an n/a 10.5 to 1 compression, 322ci motor with a Sullivan, it made 490rwhp at only 7280rpm. It also had some very good heads with oversized valves. We could have gotten a lot more hp out of it but the owner wanted to run nitrous so there was no need to spin it any higher. This motor also made great torque but it had 03/04 heads and a 4.6 Sullivan intake which has smaller ports than the 5.4 version. Your motor will need to be spun higher due to the larger ports of both the heads and intake to make the same power.

With that, what cams/compression?

I've spent 2k having the heads ported and installing valves and what not... and I chose the SHM cams based on a Musclemustangs and fastfords article where they built one... let me quote a little:
"The 5.4L 4V motor was built with high horsepower in mind. The 4V heads came from a Navigator, but don't let the humble soccer-mom beginnings fool you. The Navigator heads featured large intake ports, which were further enhanced with extensive porting to unleash an additional 50 cfm per runner. Naturally, the ported heads required something other than a long-runner (Navigator) intake manifold. Knowing the motor would require substantial intake flow as well as the proper tuning to determine the effective rpm range, the 5.4L was topped off with a Sullivan intake casting. ... The heads received a quartet of Sean Hyland 4V cams. "

I chose the Turbo profile cams to allow for future possible twin turbo install and because I was told it would be a good idea to have a little more exaust sweep depth... but I doubt I'll go that route.
So I have a bit of a delima... did i do wrong? Where can I find more info on what to do? Time is becomming a bit of an issue.

shakin_bakin · 07-29-2008, 10:14 PM

I am to doing the 5.4 4 valve.. with navi heads... i am looking at the sullivan intake... and also the Boss 290... the boss 290 i want ot get just to be unique... i really like the sullivan though cause it has teh coolant cross over built in.. but you have to relocate the T/B .... but i dont think the Boss 290 intake is going to be able to flow alot of air through that little T/B it has

thats the only down side... if i was going 5.4 4 valve high compression N/A .... the boss 290 would be my intake... that thing just looks good... and its kinda rare in the states... hints why i want one... just to be different but its expensive... but after you count fuel rails and everything else for the sullivan its not much more expensive... if any at all....

I am stuck on cams for my 5.4 4 valve... i am going turbo ... i was thinking about going with mmr stage 3's....

NA SVT .... can you help me out??? as i know cam selection is going to be key...

r3dn3ck · 07-30-2008, 07:29 AM

birdman941 makes really nice complete kits for 4-valve installs using the Boss intake. He's on the corral too. The guy knows his 4v 5.4 stuff. A navigator lower is a hell of a starting point for an intake though.

a stage 3 cam set is pretty aggressive. MMR recommends their stage 2 for builds that are more street oriented but still have ported heads and such.

cobra1923 · 07-30-2008, 09:41 AM

Not sure if any of you surf SVTperf's website but yesterday a guy posted up shots of his TT 5.4 4V build...came out real nice. Used massaged Navi heads and polished up a Sullivan upper to bolt to his worked over Navi lower.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...d.php?t=510908

View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Not swapping. You guys are nuts for trying.	0	0%
Not swapping but find the topic interesting.	0	0%
Thinking about doing the swap but not in the next year.	0	0%
Definitely going to do the swap in the next year or so.	0	0%
Doing it now. Looking for an engine or awaiting delivery.	0	0%
Doing it now. Already bought an engine.	0	0%
Done. Got my 5.4L and showin my tail lights to camaro's every day.	0	0%
Screw 5.4, I'm going 6.8L V10	0	0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

07-25-2008, 01:39 PM	#4502 (permalink)
shakin_bakin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 173	hmm ohh well thats good to know guess i can just get any random front cover then as long as its 5.4 4valve... thats good cause the navi covers are alot cheapre then the GT500 covers, and SUpercar GT covers...

07-27-2008, 06:27 PM	#4503 (permalink)
ibanezsvo Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 55	My 1st Post [quote=myillwillinc;343186]how about a roll call for everyone on where they stand on thier projects? Hello all, I've never posted on this site before but I've asked illwill a couple of questions. I started my project ... well i bought the engine block on 2/26/08 and since then I've spent just at 11k: block cleanup work Port & Polish Heads, beehive valve springs... manley H-beam rods and pistons Sean Sullivan Cams Flywheel, Oil pump harmonic balancer T56 kit, clutch and shifter good to 550ft.lbs i figure in about 5k more i can have the long block and use accessories from my GT. I still have a lot of questions (too many), but now my answers are gaining ground on questions... I have pictures but i dont know if anyone is interested in seeing them or if i can post them?

07-27-2008, 07:44 PM	#4504 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 651	post up pics...... here is what i did this weekend: not 5.4 related much but i'm waiting on the headers and intake..... __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

07-28-2008, 07:15 AM	#4505 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,005	I'd love some pics.... Mine are all in the site in my sig. I haven't snapped any pics lately what with the car down at <mysterious shop name> getting the headers fiddled with, a new Focus pump and 30lb injectors and a bunch of other work done. I figure there's probably at least another couple weeks in all that work plus some more after a few more weeks to fit the production headers and get the final dyno tune on it. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

07-28-2008, 02:09 PM	#4507 (permalink)
96blackgt54 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lawrenceburg,KY Posts: 154	I've been thinking of droping the x-pipe(unknown brand) and replacing it with an H-pipe. I though if I go through the trouble why not just do the headers too, but that would mean I would have to take out the engine. I have pondered on replacing the stock 2v oil pump with the 4v one. how are the headers coming along? Will they fit the sn-95's with/witout K-member? Is this <mysterious shop name> on top of their game? Give us more insite.

07-29-2008, 11:44 AM	#4516 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 651	as for the oil pump questions, the 2v is just fine for most apps. if you want alittle more out of it, siple put a stiffer spring in it and it will increase your oil pressure and help out alittle more. __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

07-29-2008, 10:14 PM	#4518 (permalink)
shakin_bakin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 173	5.4 4 valve I am to doing the 5.4 4 valve.. with navi heads... i am looking at the sullivan intake... and also the Boss 290... the boss 290 i want ot get just to be unique... i really like the sullivan though cause it has teh coolant cross over built in.. but you have to relocate the T/B .... but i dont think the Boss 290 intake is going to be able to flow alot of air through that little T/B it has thats the only down side... if i was going 5.4 4 valve high compression N/A .... the boss 290 would be my intake... that thing just looks good... and its kinda rare in the states... hints why i want one... just to be different but its expensive... but after you count fuel rails and everything else for the sullivan its not much more expensive... if any at all.... I am stuck on cams for my 5.4 4 valve... i am going turbo ... i was thinking about going with mmr stage 3's.... NA SVT .... can you help me out??? as i know cam selection is going to be key...

07-30-2008, 07:29 AM	#4519 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,005	birdman941 makes really nice complete kits for 4-valve installs using the Boss intake. He's on the corral too. The guy knows his 4v 5.4 stuff. A navigator lower is a hell of a starting point for an intake though. a stage 3 cam set is pretty aggressive. MMR recommends their stage 2 for builds that are more street oriented but still have ported heads and such. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

07-30-2008, 09:41 AM	#4520 (permalink)
cobra1923 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore Posts: 581	Not sure if any of you surf SVTperf's website but yesterday a guy posted up shots of his TT 5.4 4V build...came out real nice. Used massaged Navi heads and polished up a Sullivan upper to bolt to his worked over Navi lower. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...d.php?t=510908 __________________ 2003 10th Anniversary Cobra Convertible All Stock and staying that way... well maybe some pipes since it's so quiet..ahhhh! it's a sickness 1995 mustang GT vert - all black (almost back together)