Mustang Accessories

tooslow · 09-01-2007, 09:02 PM

Red- Awesome write up. I believe i'll write in as well. If they are as serious as they claim to be about bringing information to every group of mustang enthusiast than they'll at least give mention to the 2v 5.4l segment. Or hopefully do a series of test and tunes. That would be great. "Mods for 5.4 2v Mods." <--- I'll be extatic the day i open MM&FF and see that under the table of contents. The magaizine is great and i enjoy all of their tech articles, but to do a series of test based on the Intake issues the various Mod engines have without mention of the 2v 5.4l contradicts every claim they make in the opening paragraph.

tooslow · 09-01-2007, 09:10 PM

Glad to see we have a new swapper around. congrats on the car. i bet its a blast.

eventually, i'll catch up to you guys. Still not ready to start yet though.

myillwillinc · 09-01-2007, 09:48 PM

i'm very curious to see the dyno sheet on that one also. i feel dumb that i never took my first one to the dyno with the nonPI 5.4 to compare it to this one. but as soon as i get back on track i will be geting the last few things finished on mine and dynoing the bad boy...

mean330 · 09-01-2007, 10:51 PM

I scanned the dyno graph to my pc but it won't let me upload. If someone would like to have a look at them or try to post them just let me know I will email it to you.

mean330 · 09-01-2007, 10:54 PM

And thank you for the warm welcome

*r3dn3ck* · 09-01-2007, 11:12 PM

send to cburnss at gmail dawt com. I'll host the pic on my web server and we can link it from there.

I would absolutely cream my jeans to see them put a "mods for 2v 5.4 mods" article in. I mean really... the ground on 4.6's and 4v 5.4's has been plowed, planted and reaped. The info is pretty much out there and there's little new forward motion of any great magnitude. Think of it though... all that new ground that's never really been covered, particularly with mustang/crown-vic/t-bird use instead of truck use. There's all the facets of cam timing, head porting, intake choice, exhaust, tuning, bolt-on's. Jeebus.. all the ground that's been covered already in 4.6 is totally virgin soil and they've left it alone like a leper at a singles bar.

I think they'll hear our plea. Whether or not they'll be inclined to do anything about it is 50/50. There's enough people swapping that I can't see them missing out on this entirely new area of literary possibilities. I mean seriously.. it's got to be a serious PITA to fill that big ass mag every month and try to keep it fresh. Now they've got at least a full 3-4 issues worth of material. What better way to stretch the subject matter they've got booked already.

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 08:41 AM

karkraft has a screaming deal on lightning shortblocks. <1700 bucks for forged pistons, steel crank, and stock PM rods (320 bucks more can get you a set of H-beams from ebay to finish it off in style). http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm

I've got a front cover and timing components I'll let go extra cheap to anyone that buys one of their lightning shortblocks. This is my way of trying to get more of you onto the successful completion column from the hopeful attempter column.

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 09:06 AM

here's mean330's dyno graph. Damn! That's some tuning success right there.

myillwillinc · 09-02-2007, 11:46 AM

is that only tq?

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 12:06 PM

it's 2 runs from the looks of it. There are 2 traces for A/F, TQ and HP. The way they setup the graph deleted the value listing for the HP so it's a little hard to read. When I do a graph I set the AF on its own sub-chart and then there's a Y axis available for hp and tq individually. The lightest color lines are the HP, the next darker set is the tq and the totally black set is the AF ratio.

From the looks of it the car started out running pretty dangerously lean until about 4K rpm. That's really typical of the OEM tune even in 4.6 motors. There looks to have been some very nicely done hand curving of the A/F via the MAF xfer function. Gaining 50tq in places is a seriously shocking thing right around the first test ride.

mean330 · 09-02-2007, 12:09 PM

Yes, it was done on a mustang dyno (CRT Performance here in Norwalk) and I believe torque gets measured and hp is calculated from that but don't quote me on that. I'm also told mustang dyno numbers are 10-15% lower than if ran on a dynojet? Is there any truth to that?

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 12:20 PM

yes there's some truth to it... I don't think it's appropriate to quote numbers but different dyno's do read differently. I always go to a place with a dynojet. You can calulate HP or tq from the other as long as you know the RPM. Basically HP=[(torque) x (rpm)] / 5252. You can use the transitive property (you'll have to remember your 8th grade algebra for that) to identify the tq number from the hp number. This is why knowing the RPM is important. Now remember, with this forumula you're calculating the power at the same rpm as the tq, not peak numbers since only very rarely does a motor make the same hp as tq at any given rpm.

mean330 · 09-02-2007, 12:36 PM

Thats some good info man. I about wet my pants on the way home from the tune from all that newfound torque. Do you think the comp. xe270 would make a good cam choice for this motor? I have buddy thats selling a pair of sean hyland stage3 blower cams for dirt cheap but I'm afraid it might not be a good choice.

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 12:40 PM

I'll do a simulation with the SHM cams and see if they'll be any good for you. The xe270ah-13 is a really good cam for this application. I picked the 270's for mine. They've got good overlap which will help with my higher than stock compression.

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 12:49 PM

well.. I can't find enough info on the SHM cams to be sure but it looks like they're decent for you and should be just fine. It's optimized on the exhaust side since blower cars can use positive pressure to make up for a lack of duration on the intake side.

If you can, get me lift/duration/LSA and intake and exhaust centerline angles. I'll be able to give a better shot at they sim with that info.

mean330 · 09-02-2007, 01:09 PM

I can't seem to find much info on them either but I called my friend and he said 232/242 @50 lift and .550 max lift. He can't find the paperwork that came with them. There shouldn't be any worry of the valves hitting the pistons should there?

*r3dn3ck* · 09-02-2007, 05:48 PM

not on a 5.4. piston sits down .1 below the deck. The advice I've been given says there's pretty much no streetable grind you can't use on a 5.4. The 4.6 has only .008 deck clearance so it's easy to get PTV with relatively mild grinds.

96blackgt54 · 09-04-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

not on a 5.4. piston sits down .1 below the deck. The advice I've been given says there's pretty much no streetable grind you can't use on a 5.4. The 4.6 has only .008 deck clearance so it's easy to get PTV with relatively mild grinds.

It's gonna take a big bumpy stick to have some PTV contact. It can be done, but like r3d said, any street run-of-the-mill off the shelf cam almost degree'd still will not have PTV contact.

Here are some pics of the lower intake I was talking about.

myillwillinc · 09-04-2007, 01:21 PM

not a bad intake. i did some serching and couldn't find one anywhere. i guess i'll have to pay karkraft prices to get a lower lightning one...

assasinator · 09-04-2007, 07:13 PM

you might try throwing a bunch of plenum volume to the PI. add a couple of spacers 2-3" it should improve hp a little.

assasinator · 09-04-2007, 07:16 PM

the runners on a lightning intake are so short you will lose nearly all torque and still not make hp because the heads will quit first. N/A lighning lowers are not the way to go.

assasinator · 09-04-2007, 07:33 PM

i am throwing in a link to my new intake setup dyno. the numbers aren't important. you'll notice the A/F is totally screwed.

http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=299232

just like the first dyno above power was non existant with an A/F from 19:1 to 15:1. , but what is important is the basic powerband. HP was rising at 5200 when it shifted to O/D.

assasinator · 09-04-2007, 07:35 PM

note all numbers are SAE corrected.

assasinator · 09-04-2007, 07:36 PM

i did a 2nd gear pull and the power was rising at 5700 fuel cutoff. even lean.

myillwillinc · 09-04-2007, 11:50 PM

so i would do better with the pi intake and adapters for a NA combo over the lightning lower/cobra upper intake?

*r3dn3ck* · 09-05-2007, 09:10 AM

hps intake... HUGE plenum and if you don't chop the runners as far as I did you'll keep more tq down low. I'd still port the runner exits... there's room.

pics coming in a second for assassinator's benefit... I don't know that he's seen it. His perspective would be nice in any case. The pic is of the underside of the intake. The runners are <11" measured in the center of the runner profile.

oohsoobad2 · 09-05-2007, 09:36 AM

Is that the HPS 4.6 intake ?? At one time I know they were working on a 5.4 version.

*r3dn3ck* · 09-05-2007, 10:08 AM

yep but I've heavily modified mine. It is sorta the 5.4 version. Bob's got a spacer to add even more plenum volume and he's cutting the latest version of adapter plates. Call him up..

oohsoobad2 · 09-05-2007, 10:15 AM

Lots of good tech in this thread but I havent been able to read all the post.

I have seen Lightning lower intakes used with 96-98 Cobra upper intakes. Has anyone done it and kept the intercooler in place and functioning ???

I know this isnt the ideal setup, but could it work ?? I have an S Trim on my 4.6 GT now and would love to step up to a blown, intercooled 5.4

96blackgt54 · 09-05-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oohsoobad2

Lots of good tech in this thread but I havent been able to read all the post.

I have seen Lightning lower intakes used with 96-98 Cobra upper intakes. Has anyone done it and kept the intercooler in place and functioning ???

I know this isnt the ideal setup, but could it work ?? I have an S Trim on my 4.6 GT now and would love to step up to a blown, intercooled 5.4

The intake setup you just described has been done and repeated a few times with great success.

Not a hard project, very simple to make. Also perfect for a "BLOWN" application! Not N/A!
I did the intake mock-up for N/A...........NO TORQUE!
I did however tapped the tach at 5600rpm's. I have yet done that with the stock truck intake, 4500rpm's is the cut-off.