Mustang Accessories

tooslow · 07-12-2007, 10:55 AM

i had typed out a long discription of the plenum. than somehow lost it.

one more second...

here is the picture. i'm going to type a walkthrough of the design and clear up any missunderstanding with the drawing. This will give you a few minutes to think about what you are looking at.

tooslow · 07-12-2007, 11:16 AM

i took the autocad class last year some time so my user liscence was up. I was limited to doing only 2D basics.

The upper plenum has 3 main elements to the design.

-The base plate
-The plenum
-The outershell.

-Base plate:

As you can see, the base plate is green in the drawing. The plate functions as a devider between the upper and lower plenums. The base plate has cut-outs for the plenum to flow into the intercooler and also for the intercooler hardware at the rear of the manifold. It is also just a flat surface, great for mounting various things.

-The plenum:

The plenum is outlined in red in the drawing. Having a free flowing and unristrictive plenum is the main priority. Based on that and points made by Red, i've come up wigth an "elbow" design for the plenum. This design does a number of great things for the manifold. First off, it will give the intercooler freeflowing air that is directed straight at it. The elbow will avoid all the turbulance a large boxed upper would give and it seperates the air from the intercooler hardware at the back of the manifold. Very simple and efficient design. Elbow profile can change for maximum flow potential.

-The outer shell:

Purely aesthetic. Serves only as a distraction and to give the illusion of a boxed upper plenum. The outer shell will have a few distinct features that everyone dreams of having under the hood. A removable top lid on the shell would give access to the plenum and hardware below. The rear of the shell has a cutout for the coolant lines to go in and out. The rear whole would be invisible others, making it a perfect place to sneak things under the lid. The Front part of the plenum can be fitted with all the various vacuum lines an EFI engine needs. Those are illistrated with purple lines in the drawing. The outer plate just in front of the manifold can be made to look as if thats where the vacuum lines are attatched to the "boxed" upper plenum.

Those 2 yellow circles?

thoughts? questions?

tooslow · 07-12-2007, 04:38 PM

later, i'm going to alter the drawing so that the top of the outer shell is angled inward about half way up. i think that would look better.

*r3dn3ck* · 07-12-2007, 06:19 PM

I have a few constructive criticisms. Hope you take that sort of thing well.

1. You have a poor short side radius. The bottom of the upper plenum's elbow is (and I realize the tools you had were limited so this is just nit picks) very sharply angled. This will yeild an out of control air stream at that part of the inlet to the intercooler body. To fix, make it more like an ovate exhaust bent tube. This will require raising the roofline at the apex of the downward slope with accompanying angle smoothing to the balance of the top curve line, and on the bottom you'll need to create a bit of a hill (slow, short and round) just before the edge.. maybe start an inch before with the upslope raising .2" total.

2. the intercooler is much wider in relationship to the upper plenum than you have it... just a planning FYI.

3. You'll need to taper the front and back of the shell as well as the sides or you'll have huge hood clearance problems on a 5.4L. It'll look badass too.

It has the potential to be very interesting. Possibly even inexpensive to produce. If you get good results you should license it to a manufacturer. Get you some royalties.

tooslow · 07-12-2007, 06:42 PM

i take VERY well to criticism. only way to make something better.

i know the preportions are way off. i didn't even use any true measurements on it. just winged it.

i realize that the lift or lid my not be as plausible. keeping it under the hood is moor important. the elbow is way off. again, no real measurements. once the size of the intercooler is brought to scale it would also change the profile of the elbow. I couldn't get the curve right, so i just made 2 circles and drew a line across them. the elboy would be much more curved.

feel free to do some airflow work and make suggest farther suggestions about the design.

royalties would be great. i'd be sure to make donations to the cause here. haha. maybe even send out a prototype or 2.

but, in all honesty i don't have the means to even produce or test it now. so i'm doing nothing more than having fun drawing up concepts.

wcjr · 07-13-2007, 02:44 PM

The people that have already done the 5.4 swap, share the horsepower and torque that they get. What i am wondering is what is this 5.4 engine doing as for as mpg (what are you getting to the tank?).

What will a cammed 5.4 get vs a stock one.

My last question will putting a 5.4 in your car make it sound like the 5.4 trucks? I would like to find a video clip of a 5.4 mustang revving a little.

tooslow · 07-13-2007, 06:00 PM

now that i'm done dreaming for the past few days, i have a less envolved design in mind.

sometimes the simplest solution is the best. designing a well flowing plenum in the design i've shown would be, deficult and time consuming. The layout is a bit too much also.

i'm now thinking an unpside down "U" shaped plenum the deminsions of the intercooler with a round Al piped elbow that merges in the center. Would be the simplest and cheapest. It can be done with a low profile that doesn't hinder airflow. There would be no tall sides to cause issues. i could use the factory throttle hardware with anything from a accufab 70-75 or even a wilson 90 if need be.

VOID · 07-13-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcjr

The people that have already done the 5.4 swap, share the horsepower and torque that they get. What i am wondering is what is this 5.4 engine doing as for as mpg (what are you getting to the tank?).

What will a cammed 5.4 get vs a stock one.

My last question will putting a 5.4 in your car make it sound like the 5.4 trucks? I would like to find a video clip of a 5.4 mustang revving a little.

I wonder about these things too. I get really really good gas milage now and i don't know if i want to mess that up. So wonder what they get.

Twin Turbo 330 · 07-14-2007, 12:08 AM

WCJR

Quote:

The people that have already done the 5.4 swap, share the horsepower and torque that they get. What i am wondering is what is this 5.4 engine doing as for as mpg (what are you getting to the tank?).

I know saleen s330 when he did his swap got better gas mileage than before. He did his swap in to a 97 saleen. I think he was getting like 19 around town with the 4.6 and 24 mpg with the 5.4. Myillwillinc can tell you better since he drove around with one for a while before his rebuild. Oh Saleen S330 power numbers where 289 rwhp and 368 rwtq. The tq might be more don't remember exactly. All he had extra was Patriot stage 2 heads and underdrive pulleys, exhaust, and jlt intake with CnL elbow and throttle body.

VOID · 07-14-2007, 06:03 AM

no cams?

myillwillinc · 07-14-2007, 07:53 AM

on my 5.4 before, i never had it tuned so i had crappy mpg. i got 17-19 in town and 20-22 on hwy. but i don't know the numbers. i really wish i had done it since it was a nonPI one and this one is a PI with all kinds of crazy stuff done to it.

v6'stang · 07-14-2007, 08:51 AM

you'd think the 5.4's would get killer gas mileage cause it'd take less "umph" from it to get the car moving compared to the 4.6. as long as ya didn't floor it everywhere ya went.

"Oh Saleen S330 power numbers where 289 rwhp and 368 rwtq."
was that w/the 5.4? idk much about them but the HP seems a lil low to me. TQ's awesome tho.

wcjr · 07-14-2007, 09:24 AM

i figured that the city would be about what i was getting right now, for some reason i knew that the hwy would drop. The hwy is where i do 65% of my driving.

Millywill what did your untuned 5.4 get to the tank?

VOID · 07-14-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v6'stang

you'd think the 5.4's would get killer gas mileage cause it'd take less "umph" from it to get the car moving compared to the 4.6. as long as ya didn't floor it everywhere ya went.

"Oh Saleen S330 power numbers where 289 rwhp and 368 rwtq."
was that w/the 5.4? idk much about them but the HP seems a lil low to me. TQ's awesome tho.

Se the problem is that the 5.4 has the same heads as the 4.6 so it has trouble breathing but still makes killer power. The main reason i'm switching is for the torque

myillwillinc · 07-14-2007, 11:42 AM

i think it was 220-260 a tank depending on hwy or city...

wcjr · 07-14-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

i think it was 220-260 a tank depending on hwy or city...

well thats about what i get with my 4.6

myillwillinc · 07-14-2007, 04:51 PM

if i got crazy and heavy footed i'd get 180-200 a tank

bassman97 · 07-14-2007, 04:59 PM

Considering how the 4.6 doesn't have umph in 5th gear, highway mileage will improve but city will drop a lot, especially w/ a lot of idleing. If a Corvette can get 28 mpg w/ a 365 ci V8, I'm sure a smaller 330 V8 w/ better torque can get the same on a heavier car (procided that the engine is tuned perfectly).

birdman941 · 07-14-2007, 05:22 PM

...................

myillwillinc · 07-14-2007, 11:26 PM

mine sounded just like the 4.6 but alittle deeper...

myillwillinc · 07-14-2007, 11:27 PM

mine sounded just like the 4.6 but alittle deeper...

goto my page and at the bottom there are a couple of vids with it idling...

v6'stang · 07-15-2007, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOID

Se the problem is that the 5.4 has the same heads as the 4.6 so it has trouble breathing but still makes killer power. The main reason i'm switching is for the torque

ahh i see, thx for clearin' that up for me!

*r3dn3ck* · 07-15-2007, 08:39 AM

more 4.6/5.4 comparo questions have popped in... looks like we have some fresh meat. Welcome v6 dude!

they're the same motor just different deck heights. That being the case, the 5.4L will sound and drive just like the 4.6 but it'll be a bit meatier in both respects.

If you want to know what kind of power you'll make with a particular 5.4 combo, then take the parts you have planned and figure out what they do to a 4.6. Add 30hp and 80lbs of twist to whatever you come out with from the 4.6 and you'll be pretty close.

Cams: most important single mod for 2v 5.4's. Stock cams offer less than 200deg intake duration which isn't enough to make big hp with such a long stroke. VT stage 2 or Comp xe270ah are good choices.. the more radical the cam the better the power from everything I've seen so far. Even comp 278's turned in good tq.

intake: this is not as big a problem as it could be. Find something with shorter runners than stock PI jobs. Lightning lowers are cake to mod, HPS Hardball'R is killer, PP Typhoon works but ain't great for power, truck intakes don't clear the hood. Reichard Racing and Hiperformancesolutions.com make adapter plates. HPS plates are a newer better flowing design.

Gas mileage: will go up if you keep your foot out of it. If you have 3.73 gears you can put 3.27's in and have much improved mileage on the highway with still better top gear throttle response. Around town... shift early and often or you'll feel the effect of the extra cubes on mileage. Taller rear gears help with city miles too...just not as much.

Power: Depends on your intake, cam, compression and exhaust. The low end has shown numbers like 220/370, the high end has been 340/340 (all for 2v). With 3v or 4v there is a LOT more power on the table.

Tuning: you can start it on a 4.6 tune, probably even drive it to the tuner but you really should have it properly tuned so you don't end up with a busted motor.

Head porting: is worth 30hp on a 5.4. It's worth it, it's worth it, it's worth it. Bigger is better with this part. The 5.4 has a mega long stroke which feeds on port volume.

Exhaust: Fitting is a PITA. We have a long tube design that works and you can buy from one of us. Otherwise, stock manifolds or FRPP shorties are all you got to choose from. FRPP's don't return enough power to justify the cost but they're in fact better than iron manifolds by a ways.

v6'stang · 07-15-2007, 10:14 AM

sweet. damn red, you know quite a bit about a lot. i've entertained the idea about a v8 swap but realized it'd be a lot cheaper for me to throw a turbo or sc on it right now. but if i had the extra money layin' around, this would def. be on the top of my list. and btw, doesn't the cobra r have a 5.4 in it? and if so, wouldn't parts thru ford be kinda easy to come by? eventho there aren't many cobra r's floatin' around...

bad horc · 07-15-2007, 10:55 AM

I think i found a motor. It's out of a 98 Expedition. The kid was driving it until last thursday when he totaled it. He said 350 for the complete motor. Sound good?

birdman941 · 07-15-2007, 05:24 PM

......................

v6'stang · 07-15-2007, 05:50 PM

hmmm i see. well scratch that idea, lol.

birdman941 · 07-15-2007, 06:17 PM

........................

v6'stang · 07-15-2007, 08:15 PM

aside from the upper and lower being unobtainable, would it be possible to build the exact motor that's in the cobra r? and does anyone know the numbers on them?

tooslow · 07-15-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad horc

I think i found a motor. It's out of a 98 Expedition. The kid was driving it until last thursday when he totaled it. He said 350 for the complete motor. Sound good?

that is an AWESOME price.

bare blocks with the timing cover will cost more than that at most junk yards. pick it up. NOW.